Matthew Leuenberger BandWagon

[gandaal]

Gandall,

What if Hughes rates Leunberger as the best? I highly doubt he's drafting for position

In fact, I highly doubt he drafts for position AT ALL for every pick. We could have done with an extra mid last year but picked Jake Edwards probably because we regarded him as best available.

It wouldn't suprise me if we go through the National Draft without drafting a ruckman simply because at each of our picks we might rank someone higher than an available ruck

I'll never talk to Hughes personally so I'll never know if he would be recruiting for need or not if he does pick Leuenburger. But that's what the implication will be none the less. I'm not talking about Hughes anyway. I doubt he reads this forums so its not likely anything any of us say or do on this forum will affect matters.

I might be wrong but I think with Edwards he might end up as a midfielder or bust. Despite his height (only 192 cm) he doesn't seem like the kpp type but I could be wrong.

 

[ClayBlue87]

There is no way in hell you can expect a young ruck prospect to jump in and play AFL from the get go. The truth is that they will need strength and conditioning for a good 1-3 yrs before they should be considered. The only reason MOST of these kids picked up from the Draft are played in their first year is that there is such HUGE public demand for them. I, as all other Carlton fans should be, am realistic in knowing the fact that we probably wont see him for a year or two. Maybe for 12 minutes in round 22 knowing Pagan .

But Leuenberger has played in the WAFL, against grown men. Gibbs has played in the SANFL, against grown men. Both boys are still growing. We know that rucking has high physical demands, but how do we know for 100% sure that Leuenberger wont be ready for AFL in his first season?

Hypothetical... if you were guaranteed that Leuenberger could play every game in 2007, and was rated the equal most talented player in the draft along with Gibbs, would that have an impact on your decision making?

 

[gandaal]

There is no way in hell you can expect a young ruck prospect to jump in and play AFL from the get go. The truth is that they will need strength and conditioning for a good 1-3 yrs before they should be considered. The only reason MOST of these kids picked up from the Draft are played in their first year is that there is such HUGE public demand for them. I, as all other Carlton fans should be, am realistic in knowing the fact that we probably wont see him for a year or two. Maybe for 12 minutes in round 22 knowing Pagan .

But Leuenberger has played in the WAFL, against grown men. Gibbs has played in the SANFL, against grown men. Both boys are still growing. We know that rucking has high physical demands, but how do we know for 100% sure that Leuenberger wont be ready for AFL in his first season?

Hypothetical... if you were guaranteed that Leuenberger could play every game in 2007, and was rated the equal most talented player in the draft along with Gibbs, would that have an impact on your decision making?

A ruckman and a midfielder of exact equal talent and the ruckman is guarenteed to play every game during his debut season (and earn those games by playing sufficiently well). In that unlikely event I would pick the ruckman.

 

[marcmurphy3]

There is no way in hell you can expect a young ruck prospect to jump in and play AFL from the get go. The truth is that they will need strength and conditioning for a good 1-3 yrs before they should be considered. The only reason MOST of these kids picked up from the Draft are played in their first year is that there is such HUGE public demand for them. I, as all other Carlton fans should be, am realistic in knowing the fact that we probably wont see him for a year or two. Maybe for 12 minutes in round 22 knowing Pagan .

But Leuenberger has played in the WAFL, against grown men. Gibbs has played in the SANFL, against grown men. Both boys are still growing. We know that rucking has high physical demands, but how do we know for 100% sure that Leuenberger wont be ready for AFL in his first season?

Hypothetical... if you were guaranteed that Leuenberger could play every game in 2007, and was rated the equal most talented player in the draft along with Gibbs, would that have an impact on your decision making?

I would still go Gibbs

 

[ClayBlue87]

I think that most people over-rate midfielders and under-rate ruckman... especially those who have the potential to offer excellent first possesion to the midfielders and to be an option as a 5th midfielder (a ruckman with axcellent ball skills) such as cox.

 

[parrot]

I'm strongly against recruiting for need...

I totally agree. Talent should be the only criteria. Clubs don't get many "opportunities" to get the best talent available. Lower picks can be skewed toward need. Gibbs is the most talented in the draft. So the decision is an easy one.

 

[OZBomb]

Any one of Gibbs, Leuenberger, Hansen, Gumbleton or Thorpe will be fine with me. They will all be super-duper-stars anyway.

 

[ericpascoe]

Hughes has been very clear that he'll take who he thinks is the best player.

Why is it so inconceivable to the Gibbophiles (most of whom would have actually seen him play maybe once) that Leuenberger might genuinely be rated more highly?

And why all the aggro at people that have the temerity to say Gibbs may not go at 1?

BTW Gandal, not asking you to take my word for it. But why would anyone come on here and just make sh*t up?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

But why would anyone come on here and just make sh*t up?

Ah ... the age old question. Let's just say, it's been known to happen ... from time to time ... once in a while .... on the odd occasion ........ over and over and over and over and over and over (deep breath) and over and over and over (you get the point) again.

 

[mediumsizered]

Ah ... the age old question. Let's just say, it's been known to happen ... from time to time ... once in a while .... on the odd occasion ........ over and over and over and over and over and over (deep breath) and over and over and over (you get the point) again.

Surely not? I thought everyone posted on here with only the best intentions. You have shattered my illusions (delusions, perhaps).

 

[HBF]

I would still go Gibbs

So would I Murph, and then have a real hard look at Kruezer next year, who by all accounts, is up there with Leuey in terms of rucking ability.

Remember people, we don't need to solve all of our problems in one draft.

 

[BlueBelle]

So would I Murph, and then have a real hard look at Kruezer next year, who by all accounts, is up there with Leuey in terms of rucking ability.

Remember people, we don't need to solve all of our problems in one draft.

That's true but it would be nice!

 

[HBF]

That's true but it would be nice!

No, I just want us to start winning again BG. I'm sick of losing.

 

[BlueBelle]

No, I just want us to start winning again BG. I'm sick of losing.

We are all sick of losing HBF, hence the comment. It would be nice if we could solve all of our problems with this draft because the sooner the problems are solved, the sooner the Blues are back up the top.

 

[HBF]

We are all sick of losing HBF, hence the comment. It would be nice if we could solve all of our problems with this draft because the sooner the problems are solved, the sooner the Blues are back up the top.

But we need to be realistic as well. No club has ever solved their list issues in just one draft, not even two.

FWIW, we take Gibbs in this draft, and then have a look at Kruezer next year, who is just about on par with Leuey this year.

I tell ya what, that light at the end of the tunnel is getting bigger!

 

[BlueBelle]

But we need to be realistic as well. No club has ever solved their list issues in just one draft, not even two.

FWIW, we take Gibbs in this draft, and then have a look at Kruezer next year, who is just about on par with Leuey this year.

I tell ya what, that light at the end of the tunnel is getting bigger!

Yes I understand that realistically it won't happen. I was just saying it would be nice, that's all

 

[HBF]

Yes I understand that realistically it won't happen. I was just saying it would be nice, that's all

Perfect world and all of that stuff huh?

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Remember people, we don't need to solve all of our problems in one draft.

Nah but if we take Leuenberger, Brown and Petterd or Connors we could go close.

 

[BlueBelle]

Perfect world and all of that stuff huh?

Yeah something like that HBF.

However, I do believe we have picked up some good kids in the past few years in Walker, Simpson, Fisher, Murphy, Kennedy, Betts, Russell and Blackwell (just to name a few off the top of my head).

I guess what I am trying to say is we do have the nucleus of a good side so we are probably closer than alot of other people think.

 

[HBF]

Nah but if we take Leuenberger, Brown and Petterd or Connors we could go close.

Don't let Cypher see that you have mentioned Petterd. It's like saying Collingwood on this board.

 

[marcmurphy3]

So would I Murph, and then have a real hard look at Kruezer next year, who by all accounts, is up there with Leuey in terms of rucking ability.

Remember people, we don't need to solve all of our problems in one draft.

Yeah we are more likely to get Kruezer next year then we are to get a midfielder the caliber of Gibbs.

 

[navier-stokes equation]

The problem with this is that ruckmen take longer to develop so if there had been proper list management from our football department, we would have picked up and developed a rookie ruckman early on in Pagan's tenure so that the ruck would mature around the same time as the midfielders/KP

Now we are left with a scenario similar to that of St Kilda.......if we get up there we won't have a ruck that is ready and we all know 2 ruckmen are vital to get anywhere in September

 

[marcmurphy3]

The problem with this is that ruckmen take longer to develop so if there had been proper list management from our football department, we would have picked up and developed a rookie ruckman early on in Pagan's tenure so that the ruck would mature around the same time as the midfielders/KP

Now we are left with a scenario similar to that of St Kilda.......if we get up there we won't have a ruck that is ready and we all know 2 ruckmen are vital to get anywhere in September

Yeah I agree but there is still time to develop a couple before we are premiership contenders. What we need more are classy midfielders with good disposal and decision making.

 

[HBF]

Yeah we are more likely to get Kruezer next year then we are to get a midfielder the caliber of Gibbs.

100% Agreed and spot on mate.
Can someone hand me Wayne Hughes' phone number?

 

[Mattlowry]

i think there are numerous reasons why we MUST pick gibbs with pick 1

1) If Leunberger doesn't get picked first, he will probably last till pick 6

2) Gibbs is an already made footballer. By virtue of his performance at SANFL level, we can be ASSURED of a good player

3) Looking back at previous drafts, KPP and Ruckmen are risky options. Livo, Polak, Williaims, Walsh, Molan, Roughead. Compared to the midfielders; judd, ball, hodge, griffen, murphy, deledio etc

4) Leuenberger might become a super player, but i personally dont think we should take a risk. There is every chance he cannot perform at the level he has shown recently

1) The top 5 is hard to seperate but i cannot see him lasting that late.. Time will see
2) Ridiculous comment. Absolutely ridiculous. Paul Thomas won the margery medal in the SANFL before coming over and playing with us. Look how that turned out. Players dominate at VFL and SANFL level and never make it at AFL.
3) Ridiculous again. You are just lookin at the positives of midfielders and the negatives of KPP/Ruckmen. Your view doesnt look at both sides.
4) There is every chance that the same will happen to gibbs!

I personally think Gibbs is the best player in this draft. And i would love for Essendon to get him. Whether or not he is the player Carlton should choose i dont know. I think your particular reasons for drafting Gibbs are foolish and very narrow minded. The question really comes down to whether you want to draft best available or draft to plug the holes in your team. Ruck is a big hole in your team and as the creator of this thread has pointed out you have been very unlucky at trying to fix this problems. I know this can be said about every position but ruckmen win premierships. You need a good ruckmen and the sooner you get him the sooner you can start developing him. But i wasnt aware there was a good option next year, so maybe that is in your best interest.

I think Essendon will get Hansen in this draft. I cant see us needing another ruckman with Laycock, Hille and Ryder. Definately need a new KP defender. At the same time a classy midfielder like Gibbs wouldnt go a miss either.

For what its worth i think Gibbs will end up at Carlton. I will be very dissapointed if we pick up Leuenberger, simply because our ruck stocks are quite healthy for the future imo.