Roast Matthew Lloyd

[TradeDraft]

Do you have any evidence to support this?

Do you have any Evidence agsinst it?

 

[mike123]

Also contrary to popular belief our backline was not that bad last year even though everyone is so desperate to pot it. At the half way mark of the year we conceded the 3rd fewest scores per defensive 50 entry. Yes they got overwhelmed at the end of the year but that was the whole team the problem was not exclusive to them.

With a much improved midfield heading into season 2016 you would hope that they would hold there own for the whole 22 weeks and therefore not exposing the backline to as many entries as they did in the second half of last year.

Add to that a fit Reid who by his standards has had a good preseason and we will have a strong defensive combination in the key posts.

I am not predicting us to be world beaters but we are far from the rabble people say we will be

The defending part of our backline is fine. Its getting the ball out effectively that we struggle with.

 

[PepperFace]

Lloyd said we would not make Top 8 and you said you agreed with him

I said that i agree we have a strong midfield. And our forward line is weak but im hoping gault and moore continue to improve. And that our defenders are generally poor kicks. I never said anything about our top 8 chances.

 

[Seedsfan]

The defending part of our backline is fine. Its getting the ball out effectively that we struggle with.

That also comes down to fittness, with another year in the young boys they should spread away from the contest better creating a low risk kick like we did in 2010

 

[The Royal Sampler]

However if we continue to kick a winning score does it matter?

By definition, no.

However all teams will improve from preseason to the real thing; we will need to improve accordingly and hopefully be peaking by finals. Our backline appears to be underperforming relative to our forwards based on preseason results.

 

[mike123]

That also comes down to fittness, with another year in the young boys they should spread away from the contest better creating a low risk kick like we did in 2010

That's the problem with our backline. It doesn't have good enough kicks to relieve the pressure and ease the work load by being able to hit up dangerous targets. The only kicks we can hit are low risk and are to reliant on the work rate of others.

Our backline atm is too reliant on workrate which is one of the reasons we drop in the second half of the years because the boys are just overworked.

 

[Hong Kong Pie]

Maybe the game is becoming more attacking

I think it really will be this year. The extended protected area around the mark will mean players will have more space and time to move, play on, switch play and generally get the ball moving into the forward line faster. This logically should produce higher average scores this year.

 

[Seedsfan]

I think it really will be this year. The extended protected area around the mark will mean players will have more space and time to move, play on, switch play and generally get the ball moving into the forward line faster. This logically should produce higher average scores this year.

Hope so, we were good to watch in the Nab I would happily concede a few more goals if we are going to score like that

 

[jmac70]

I just realised this thread is a bump from two years ago! Gee we all need the footy to start.

 

[Maggie5]

Do you have any Evidence agsinst it?

I didn't make the statement, have you?

 

[Hong Kong Pie]

I just realised this thread is a bump from two years ago! Gee we all need the footy to start.

Lloyd is a hate-figure that just keeps on giving, bless his mongrel bomber heart.

 

[Seedsfan]

Do you have any Evidence agsinst it?

Witts played a lot better in the Nab, wins more taps and is starting to mark around the ground

 

[McCrabblett]

I was specifically referring to our defence as that was what he emphasised, so lets stick to that for a moment, happy to discuss the rest in another post.

I omitted Maynard, when I was listing players that he didn't mention, which means he totally ignored 5 players (not including Shaz), so not sure you can post that it was a true analysis, without some bias.

In so far as disposal skill is something that can't be improved on well, well then the club may as well shut up shop, sack the coaches and make a space in the cabinet for the wooden spoon.

I am disappointed that you see rookies or low draft picks as a negative, some of the better players in the league have been hidden gems from those areas.
Our last captain for example?

Err...I got the impression he was primarily discussing the talls in the backline when he went into detail. (I will have to rewatch) So no, I wasn't surprised he didn't mention other than those (and was surprised he didn't mention Brown) as I thought he was talking about the tall resources.

No, being a lower drafted player is not a negative, but it is an indication that a player is likely to have significant limitations. And a mix of those with some class will give you a backline that works together. Maxwell was a great role player, as was Toovey, as can be Frost, and Sinclair. All have some significant limitations. When our defence worked, it was when it was able to gel together as a group, and relied on the players with genuine class to not just defend but get us out of trouble and balance the role players. Reid, and Shaw, provided a disproportionate amount of our ability to turn defence out of attack and ensure our more limited players weren't under sustained pressure as often, in which environment they could perform well.

Well, without Reid, and with Shaw traded, suddenly we were shown up. We suffered from an inability to find a way to get the ball out quickly and consistently, witness out horrible performance from kick ins for example. Heck, in the second match against Carlton last year, I even saw Frost (feck) taking kick ins from a behind. Thats...insane. And predictably both times it came straight back.

I agree Schaz may be one of the missing ingredients there, a fit Reid another. Even Goldsack brings something including experience. To be fair to Lloyd though, I wouldn't count on any of them for 2016, and I don't think discounting them is a sign of bias. In the case of Schaz, well he's gone for the season, Reids fitness issues are well documented and Goldys tendonitis is going to put him under severe pressure.

Finally, kicking can improve depending on why its bad. Poor decision making can be improved with confidence and exposure. Poor performance under fatigue can improve with improving fitness and match hardening. Poor technique will fall over consistently, and way way too many of our current defenders are simply fundamental butchers and always will be without major technical work. And if there is one thing I will say it is we have shown little ability in my entire time watching this club to improve technical kicking deficiencies in any player I have seen. Cloke still kicks like a preschooler, Gault has the same fundamental flaws on set shots he had in his first year etc etc. I don't know why, but there it is.

 

[Pie eyed]

Do you have any Evidence agsinst it?

Centre Ruck Taps to Advantage. Witts 54% Grundy 32%

I just made this up to see what happens...........

 

[McCrabblett]

Did We ever bottom out and finish in the bottom 4 like he said? We may have not of made finials in 2 of the 3 season but we went 35-31 in those three seasons. That's a long way from bottoming out.

Yes I got that wrong on Fyfe in that time he has become a lot more consistent and taken his game to a new level. But before 2013 he was incredibly hot and cold.

It's a bit much getting stuck into me because I predicted guys like Reid Scharenberg and Freeman to be in our best 22. No one knew Scharenberg would have done 2 ACL's heading into his third season and Freeman would have severed his hamstring and never played. It is reasonable to assume that 3 years after you draft two top ten picks would be in the best 22

Gone quiet McCrabblett

No just been doing more useful stuff, flossing, alphabetising my spice rack, that sort of shit. Or earning money, one or the other.

The point is you are not objective. You overestimate our strengths, and downplay the strengths of others. The highlighted are but a sampling. Thats great. Its fun. Its noble even. It just gets tiresome whenever you have kittens whenever an outside voice takes a more hard-nosed look at our strengths and weaknesses and doesn't conform to your idealised view of where we are. You aren't alone, and its all over this board like Zika virus. If I had a dollar for every commentator branded a biased flog for having the temerity to suggest we aren't shit on a biscuit I would probably be able to spend my afternoons responding to you in a timely fashion rather than more mundane occupations designed to pay the rent without heading to the port to sell myself to lonely sailors. Lloyd may or may not be a flog, but not due to this.

Bottom out? I don't know. Yep, we finished 12th last year, which wasn't bottom 4, so he was a little half empty there. But I will tell you what, the football we played in the last third of last year was some of the worst I have seen in my life. We gave up, rolled over and played dead against Richmond, we almost lost to a Carlton playing easily the worst I have seen, then we did lose to an Essendon who had already given up and were losing most games by 100 plus. We were beyond pathetic into performance art. Dead set, if we had come out in the second half against Essendon, formed a human pyramid, unloaded a large pile of sago pudding all over ourselves and sung excerpts from South Pacific while swinging from the ****ing behind posts it would have been less embarrassing, and may have got an arts grant. So if that is our bottoming out, I'm comfortable with it, regardless of where we ended up on the ladder. And I expect upwards from here.

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

Saw Lloyd on FC last nite, and no clue what he was talking about. Says that we are strong in the midfield, Treloar is a rolls royce, but we have concerns down back and forward. Mentioned Frost and Marsh as our key backs!!...there is a guy called Nathan Brown and another called Ben Reid. After saying you cant rely on Reid, is Lloyd aware is he available Round 1???...Frost, Marsh, Langdon, Toovey, Williams, Maynard, Ramsay and Oxley look good support acts down back....and concerns up forward. Well the last time l saw we have more than enough avenues to goal...Cloke, Moore, Gault, White, Cox, Fasolo, Elliott, Broomhead and Swan. Treloar, Varcoe, Crisp, Blair and Adams are goal kicking wings/mids. Pendles will play roaming half back (Quarterback). To me we look pretty much stocked in areas where he thinks we have concerns.

 

[jmac70]

No just been doing more useful stuff, flossing, alphabetising my spice rack, that sort of shit. Or earning money, one or the other.

The point is you are not objective. You overestimate our strengths, and downplay the strengths of others. The highlighted are but a sampling. Thats great. Its fun. Its noble even. It just gets tiresome whenever you have kittens whenever an outside voice takes a more hard-nosed look at our strengths and weaknesses and doesn't conform to your idealised view of where we are. You aren't alone, and its all over this board like Zika virus. If I had a dollar for every commentator branded a biased flog for having the temerity to suggest we aren't shit on a biscuit I would probably be able to spend my afternoons responding to you in a timely fashion rather than more mundane occupations designed to pay the rent without heading to the port to sell myself to lonely sailors. Lloyd may or may not be a flog, but not due to this.

Bottom out? I don't know. Yep, we finished 12th last year, which wasn't bottom 4, so he was a little half empty there. But I will tell you what, the football we played in the last third of last year was some of the worst I have seen in my life. We gave up, rolled over and played dead against Richmond, we almost lost to a Carlton playing easily the worst I have seen, then we did lose to an Essendon who had already given up and were losing most games by 100 plus. We were beyond pathetic into performance art. Dead set, if we had come out in the second half against Essendon, formed a human pyramid, unloaded a large pile of sago pudding all over ourselves and sung excerpts from South Pacific while swinging from the ******* behind posts it would have been less embarrassing, and may have got an arts grant. So if that is our bottoming out, I'm comfortable with it, regardless of where we ended up on the ladder. And I expect upwards from here.

Sorry to see McCrabblett cancel his account. The last link to Reykjavik

 

[Seedsfan]

No just been doing more useful stuff, flossing, alphabetising my spice rack, that sort of shit. Or earning money, one or the other.

The point is you are not objective. You overestimate our strengths, and downplay the strengths of others. The highlighted are but a sampling. Thats great. Its fun. Its noble even. It just gets tiresome whenever you have kittens whenever an outside voice takes a more hard-nosed look at our strengths and weaknesses and doesn't conform to your idealised view of where we are. You aren't alone, and its all over this board like Zika virus. If I had a dollar for every commentator branded a biased flog for having the temerity to suggest we aren't shit on a biscuit I would probably be able to spend my afternoons responding to you in a timely fashion rather than more mundane occupations designed to pay the rent without heading to the port to sell myself to lonely sailors. Lloyd may or may not be a flog, but not due to this.

Bottom out? I don't know. Yep, we finished 12th last year, which wasn't bottom 4, so he was a little half empty there. But I will tell you what, the football we played in the last third of last year was some of the worst I have seen in my life. We gave up, rolled over and played dead against Richmond, we almost lost to a Carlton playing easily the worst I have seen, then we did lose to an Essendon who had already given up and were losing most games by 100 plus. We were beyond pathetic into performance art. Dead set, if we had come out in the second half against Essendon, formed a human pyramid, unloaded a large pile of sago pudding all over ourselves and sung excerpts from South Pacific while swinging from the ******* behind posts it would have been less embarrassing, and may have got an arts grant. So if that is our bottoming out, I'm comfortable with it, regardless of where we ended up on the ladder. And I expect upwards from here.

We had a bad few weeks but we were still more than competitive against Hawthorn, Fremantle, Port, Sydney, Geelong and the dogs playing the kids we finished 2 games out of the 8. The only time I can recall us bottoming out was 04-05. You write a fair bite when you have **** all to say.

So do you believe that someone like Lloyd who I paid to have an indepth knowledge of the game doesn't harm his credibility at all when he is so quick to write a side off he forgets a key player who plays the specific position he says that they lack depth in?

For a second here just pretend he is talking about Hawthorns key stocks up forward and he says "I believe this to be an area for concern because behind Roughy who is injured all they have to rely is James Sicily and Ryan Schoenmakers." Completely ignoring Jack Gunston. Would you think that is a fair or balanced appraisal of their forward line?