Opinion Matthew Nicks: Adelaide's Coach

[Redline]

Did you miss the back end of 2019 where we downed tools to get a coach sacked?

2020 was long in the making with how horrifically bad our management had been for the past 2-3 years in the lead up, and it frankly didn't matter who was coaching that season.

It's not all on Nick's but some of it has to be. Like I said in another post I am not suggesting anything other than we have to give it more time and I think where we are now is the starting point for improvement not the rubbish that was served up at times last year.

It would be just like our club to extend his contract late this year and I think regardless of how this year pans out, that's too soon.

 

[dylan123]

he’s the sex-Panther of this board!

I'd have gone with the reason there are block lists.

 

[1970crow]

It's not all on Nick's but some of it has to be. Like I said in another post I am not suggesting anything other than we have to give it more time and I think where we are now is the starting point for improvement not the rubbish that was served up at times last year.

It would be just like our club to extend his contract late this year and I think regardless of how this year pans out, that's too soon.

We're about to go winless for 2 months, I doubt he'll be getting extended this year.

 

[Red mist]

whoever you were, under whatever values you’ve been taught, you’ve now got a coach who cares about defence

Pity the cattle can’t execute.
You gotta coach for what you have as well.
Driving a point home to incapable is Brendan Bolton esqu.

 

[Red mist]

View attachment 1073643

I love Kane. The harder he is the better we will get.

 

[Red mist]

We're about to go winless for 2 months, I doubt he'll be getting extended this year.

Well he has three new at the selection table.

 

[1970crow]

Well he has three new at the selection table.

I'm guessing you're referring to coaches, but I'm not sure how that impacts him being extended during a run of about 10 losses.

 

[baldandbroke]

Surely no one thinks that Nicks is on the chopping block before he has had a decent run at it?

End of 2023 we will know what we have.

 

[1970crow]

Surely no one thinks that Nicks is on the chopping block before he has had a decent run at it?

End of 2023 we will know what we have.

6 weeks into next year is when he'll start to be looked at. I'd expect that they'd have his extension announcement pencilled in for mid year. Unless we gave 4 years to a rookie coach who's near entire apprenticeship was under Hinkley. If we did, we'd have to be going pretty bad for him not to make his 4th year.

But we're free to judge him as we roll along and identify areas of concern. I would expect that there's a lot that he gets right. I just think that the selection philosophy that favours non-performing injured seniors and spuds like Mackay in a rebuilding phase is a terminal issue and rules out developing a genuinely contending group.

What seems an inability to understand how such a tall forward line impacts pressure across the full ground is also of great concern. I understand the average numpty on here looking just at scores for when judging forward structure, but I expect a fair bit more from what needs to be a successful AFL senior coach.

There's a lot of similarity between him and Pyke in a footy sense.

 

[Murray2503]

6 weeks into next year is when he'll start to be looked at. I'd expect that they'd have his extension announcement pencilled in for mid year. Unless we gave 4 years to a rookie coach who's near entire apprenticeship was under Hinkley. If we did, we'd have to be going pretty bad for him not to make his 4th year.

But we're free to judge him as we roll along and identify areas of concern. I would expect that there's a lot that he gets right. I just think that the selection philosophy that favours non-performing injured seniors and spuds like Mackay in a rebuilding phase is a terminal issue and rules out developing a genuinely contending group.

What seems an inability to understand how such a tall forward line impacts pressure across the full ground is also of great concern. I understand the average numpty on here looking just at scores for when judging forward structure, but I expect a fair bit more from what needs to be a successful AFL senior coach.

There's a lot of similarity between him and Pyke in a footy sense.

I would say that Nick's was given the 3 year standard deal as he is coaching for wins and isn't
developing the team as quickly as if he had the freedom of a longer deal. I would wait until the end of next year before extending him as no one is stealing Nick's. I would give him a 1 year extension if we see some marked improvement next year or alternatively I would see who's available. The improvement I want to see is with our kicking skills and the system we play.

I also want to see him rewarding form in the SANFL and not playing injured senior players. He is currently failing on this front. He also seems to have decided who is playing this year and who isn't (regardless of form in the SANFL - Worrell) which is a throwback to Pyke. A great coach is never close minded and intransigent in improving the team. Nick's is big on team first and culture but you need more than that to keep a coaching gig. You need to be able to teach them to think onfield and execute under pressure with a method that will stand up.

David King came up with a great stat on Fox Footy that if a coach doesn't win a flag within the first 5 years at a club they aren't going to win one. He mentioned a few exceptions to the rule but this did stand true in the modern era.

In saying all of that if the club dorsn't make changes in the list management and recruiting space it won't matter if Clarko is coaching us as he would only get the most out of a bad list which will be around the 7-10 ladder position.

 

[baldandbroke]

6 weeks into next year is when he'll start to be looked at. I'd expect that they'd have his extension announcement pencilled in for mid year. Unless we gave 4 years to a rookie coach who's near entire apprenticeship was under Hinkley. If we did, we'd have to be going pretty bad for him not to make his 4th year.

But we're free to judge him as we roll along and identify areas of concern. I would expect that there's a lot that he gets right. I just think that the selection philosophy that favours non-performing injured seniors and spuds like Mackay in a rebuilding phase is a terminal issue and rules out developing a genuinely contending group.

What seems an inability to understand how such a tall forward line impacts pressure across the full ground is also of great concern. I understand the average numpty on here looking just at scores for when judging forward structure, but I expect a fair bit more from what needs to be a successful AFL senior coach.

There's a lot of similarity between him and Pyke in a footy sense.

Pyke had his issues, no doubt - like a lot of AFL coaches he looks good when the players are there and ordinary when they go missing. Pre-2017 Prelims not many on here would have had Pyke on the "watch" list. Listen to the "sound the alarm" series they are releasing from the GF coaches boxes ... not very inspiring imo. I'd guess that the majority of coaches in the AFL are still miles behind the international benchmarks.

I agree that there is some stuff that doesn't make sense from where we sit - it might not make sense from any perspective - although I am ready to take a much longer view at the moment.

We are improving BUT we are still falling down in some areas ... and if these continue I'll be right there with you.

Selection is a bugger to work out with the information we have, compared to the info they have. That is not an excuse - they still make some god awful and stupid decisions - I just know that way back in the distant past when I lived in Adelaide and knew a few of the AFC players personally, the story in the media was VERY VERY different to real story as to why one person plays and another misses. Again, not that it always made sense either way ... just a very different discussion.

I want Worrell in. I want McAsey in. I want to see Jones and Fogarty to find their feet and consistent roles. I'm hanging out to see O'Connor and Pedlar. I'm bewildered by Mackay. Pissed off about Lynch. Concerned about how we handle Tex over the next 6 months.

I love that we have blooded Sholl, Butts, Hamill, Berry, Thilthorpe. The likes of Moose, McHenry, McAdam, Himmelberg have all shown enough to persist.

So much has changed for the better at our club since the GF loss, it took too long - but at least we are heading in a better direction now.

Nicks is part of that positive future AND should take a major share of the credit for where we are heading imo.

 

[triggyscrewedus]

Could be worse.. David Noble and his "we aren't chasing a win" it's all about process comment made him look like an amateur trying to be smart.
That sort of talk I've seen many times in buisness and ends in tears.
You always have your eyes on the prize and work back from there.

Chris Fagan made him look good and Nobes rode it all the way to the bank.

Need to be very careful about chasing so called experienced people.

 

[Redline]

Could be worse.. David Noble and his "we aren't chasing a win" it's all about process comment made him look like an amateur trying to be smart.
That sort of talk I've seen many times in buisness and ends in tears.
You always have your eyes on the prize and work back from there.

Chris Fagan made him look good and Nobes rode it all the way to the bank.

Need to be very careful about chasing so called experienced people.

Teflon Dave seems to be good at building his reputation.

 

[MRB37]

Could be worse.. David Noble and his "we aren't chasing a win" it's all about process comment made him look like an amateur trying to be smart.
That sort of talk I've seen many times in buisness and ends in tears.
You always have your eyes on the prize and work back from there.

Chris Fagan made him look good and Nobes rode it all the way to the bank.

Need to be very careful about chasing so called experienced people.

I kind of get what Noble meant in that if you put the W as the only way you can say a game was a success then when you're a side like the Roos every game is a failure and it is a total morale killer. Whereas if you can put achievable targets in place for the players, you hope you can build them up slowly to the point where they can then get that W.

 

[triggyscrewedus]

I kind of get what Noble meant in that if you put the W as the only way you can say a game was a success then when you're a side like the Roos every game is a failure and it is a total morale killer. Whereas if you can put achievable targets in place for the players, you hope you can build them up slowly to the point where they can then get that W.

Yeah it's a cop out.
Without a clear understanding of your objective (win) you become lost in the process.

 

[1970crow]

Could be worse.. David Noble and his "we aren't chasing a win" it's all about process comment made him look like an amateur trying to be smart.
That sort of talk I've seen many times in buisness and ends in tears.
You always have your eyes on the prize and work back from there.

Chris Fagan made him look good and Nobes rode it all the way to the bank.

Need to be very careful about chasing so called experienced people.

Noble is basically an average performer, not bad, not good. Or, perhaps better said as he's outstanding at delivering average. Look at us when he had major influence across multiple areas. Brisbane he arrives one week before the coach and they'd already solved the Burton/Hass debacle. He'll be a safe pair of hands to get them to and staying at being average.

 

[1970crow]

Yeah it's a cop out.
Without a clear understanding of your objective (win) you become lost in the process.

It's very public service mentality. If I get my part of the process right, the outcome is right. They are mired in processes, no sight of outcomes.

Edit - actually, the 2 very large businesses I worked for were much the same.

 

[Sanders]

Could be worse.. David Noble and his "we aren't chasing a win" it's all about process comment made him look like an amateur trying to be smart

That sort of talk I've seen many times in buisness and ends in tears.

I don’t believe you

 

[triggyscrewedus]

I don’t believe you

Good on you my hero,
Keep your personal insecurities to yourself.
Got it.

 

[Sanders]

Good on you my hero

Glad to be of service. Sometimes a good role model is all you need to get back on track

 

[Red mist]

I'm guessing you're referring to coaches, but I'm not sure how that impacts him being extended during a run of about 10 losses.

Did he have appropriate ingredients last year at selection. No, now there’s a difference. And a way he might wanna get his game style happening, so yeah after the last yr being a mulligan I’d extend. Misty

 

[Damp Squarie]

Surely no one thinks that Nicks is on the chopping block before he has had a decent run at it?

End of 2023 we will know what we have.

So he would have grown by then??
Is that what you are saying?

Despite him not yet “having a decent run at it”, I’m not that impressed.
Case in point, that Hawthorn match.

 

[Interloperer]

My minimum goals would be:

1. Finals by end 2023, preferably around 2015 Crows strength (New contract)
2. Obvious that the club is on the path for goal 1 by mid-2022 (Nicks gets 1 year extension)
3. If at any point goal 1&2 seem totally implausible, the club should start considering their options.

With the obvious caveat that the club getting its own house in order is more important than who is head coach.

I don't think AFC are necessarily doomed if any of these goals aren't met. But its time for a new path at that level, otherwise the combination of experienced players and promising youth leaving, will start to outpace the ability of the club to recruit new blood.

 

[Jarman3]

My minimum goals would be:

1. Finals by end 2023, preferably around 2015 Crows strength (New contract)
2. Obvious that the club is on the path for goal 1 by mid-2022 (Nicks gets 1 year extension)
3. If at any point goal 1&2 seem totally implausible, the club should start considering their options.

With the obvious caveat that the club getting its own house in order is more important than who is head coach.

I don't think AFC are necessarily doomed if any of these goals aren't met. But its time for a new path at that level, otherwise the combination of experienced players and promising youth leaving, will start to outpace the ability of the club to recruit new blood.

I don't think we've been losing too much promising youth since Lever and Cameron went. Whether that's due to cultural improvement (new coaches, more opportunities, etc) or just not having a lot of players that other teams really want to try to pick off is up for debate. But since then, the players we've traded out have been in the more mature end of the range - the likes of Betts, Jenkins, Greenwood, Keath, Ellis-Yolmen, Jacobs, McGovern, Atkins, Crouch, Hartigan, etc. Crouch, Atkins and McGovern were the only ones young enough to potentially be part of our next tilt at a flag, and Crouch is probably the only one of those three we're remotely close to actually missing.

I think I've said it previously, but I wouldn't object to the club extending Nicks by 1 year simply because his first year was pretty much a non-starter. It's hard for a first time coach to come in and take over a club with a list in an absolute mess, COVID restrictions that limit the ability to train and teach a new game plan (not to mention gutting the budget of the football department around him), hired too late to be able to appoint his own assistants so inherited the dregs of Pyke's coaching panel, etc. I'd just write 2020 off and say his 3 years start this year.

 

[1970crow]

Did he have appropriate ingredients last year at selection. No, now there’s a difference. And a way he might wanna get his game style happening, so yeah after the last yr being a mulligan I’d extend. Misty

I can’t see them extending him amid a losing streak. It’s 4 games now and could get out to 10.