Toast Max Holmes

[Jumping Jack]

Been enjoying the multiple views on this thread.

Interesting though that no one has stated the obvious. Ask anyone closely connected to the club and they’ll tell you that Holmes will be the next captain of the club.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Pollywaffle]

I didn't think Murdoch was that bad.

At least one other person on the selection table also shared your delusion.

 

[you pick one]

 

[Mattlock]

My god that leg speed is a weapon...

 

[Turkey Tom]

My god that leg speed is a weapon...

Hopefully they play him on the outside next season, so he can use it!

 

[Willo_]

Needs to used on the wing alot more .

IMO.

Go mad Max

Yeah at times we have an obsession over what a player COULD do over what they can.. Max's best footy has been on the wing and he made us look much more dynamic because of it.
For whatever reason we are trying to turn him into a Danger or Judd that can explode away from traffic but sometimes you just gotta let someone go with what they are already good at IMO

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Been enjoying the multiple views on this thread.

Interesting though that no one has stated the obvious. Ask anyone closely connected to the club and they’ll tell you that Holmes will be the next captain of the club.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

I think eventually (obviously not yet) its clark that will be but holmes would also be a good option.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Heart in the mouth there when he nearly slipped into the fence.

 

[Pollywaffle]

Heart in the mouth there when he nearly slipped into the fence.

Did they put a dog track there to make Brisbane feel at home?

 

[Footy Smarts]

Yeah at times we have an obsession over what a player COULD do over what they can.. Max's best footy has been on the wing and he made us look much more dynamic because of it.
For whatever reason we are trying to turn him into a Danger or Judd that can explode away from traffic but sometimes you just gotta let someone go with what they are already good at IMO

He is way too good to be left on the wing for his whole career without becoming a centre square mid. He's too strong and his hands are too good in traffic. And his ball use isn't good enough for him to be the creative winger like a Duncan.

Of course he's still developing. It was his third season. He was great early in the year playing a mix of wing and midfield. Then our midfield got decimated and we were forced to play him and Bruhn as key inside mids. Not surprisingly they struggled. But that's where they'll end up.

 

[Warhorse]

I might be on my own here but thought he was dissappointing this year. Showed very little in the centre square.

A move back to the wing makes sense with rotations through the middle. I would also like to see him rotate off the back flank at times. I feel he is capable of a few Wojinski style runs through the middle of the ground

 

[Pollywaffle]

He is way too good to be left on the wing for his whole career without becoming a centre square mid. He's too strong and his hands are too good in traffic. And his ball use isn't good enough for him to be the creative winger like a Duncan.

Of course he's still developing. It was his third season. He was great early in the year playing a mix of wing and midfield. Then our midfield got decimated and we were forced to play him and Bruhn as key inside mids. Not surprisingly they struggled. But that's where they'll end up.

Bruhn probably, but I think Holmes is wasted as a midfielder, especially in the bash crash modern game. I am not convinced about the quick hands , but no argument about quick legs
(edit: I know that these days there lines are blurred b/w midfielder and wing but I guess what I am saying is I prefer him outside the bounces and in a ’breakaway’ position where his awesome acceleration and endurance can be fully utilised)

 

[rocker_oz33]

Yeah at times we have an obsession over what a player COULD do over what they can.. Max's best footy has been on the wing and he made us look much more dynamic because of it.
For whatever reason we are trying to turn him into a Danger or Judd that can explode away from traffic but sometimes you just gotta let someone go with what they are already good at IMO

I just don't see inside mid , no fast hands .
If he was to bulk up ,,lose speed.

He was super in 22 on the wing..

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I might be on my own here but thought he was dissappointing this year. Showed very little in the centre square.

A move back to the wing makes sense with rotations through the middle. I would also like to see him rotate off the back flank at times. I feel he is capable of a few Wojinski style runs through the middle of the ground

The only thing I disagree with is that you said you might be on your own. You are not.

I think he'll probably be a regular cba player one day but today is not that day

 

[PzBlinky]

I might be on my own here but thought he was dissappointing this year. Showed very little in the centre square.

A move back to the wing makes sense with rotations through the middle. I would also like to see him rotate off the back flank at times. I feel he is capable of a few Wojinski style runs through the middle of the ground

Agree. He had a great 2022 on the wing. Not sure if he was pushed into the middle because they wanted to see what he could do there or injuries forced our hand (probably a bit of both). Get a fit Guthrie back and give Clark some games and he can go back to his best position - though they still may dabble a bit to see if he develops into someone who can play mid/wing.

 

[Mr Meow]

Agree. He had a great 2022 on the wing. Not sure if he was pushed into the middle because they wanted to see what he could do there or injuries forced our hand (probably a bit of both). Get a fit Guthrie back and give Clark some games and he can go back to his best position - though they still may dabble a bit to see if he develops into someone who can play mid/wing.

He played 8 games predominantly centre, 3 wing to start the year. Besides the last two games, one if which he injured himself in, these were his best set of games. The coaches agreed.

After his return from injury it was about the reverse of that and his best games in the latter half of the year (e.g vs Essendon and NM) were actually the ones where he was involved at more stoppages.

So despite the common narrative, Holmes better games this season came as an on-baller. Whether playing inside more hurt his wing craft I'm not sure, but it was his capacity as an out and out winger that declined this season - not that he played poor games just when shunted to stoppages.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Been enjoying the multiple views on this thread.

Interesting though that no one has stated the obvious. Ask anyone closely connected to the club and they’ll tell you that Holmes will be the next captain of the club.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

What is it that makes them think he's a potential future captain?

 

[PzBlinky]

He played 8 games predominantly centre, 3 wing to start the year. Besides the last two games, one if which he injured himself in, these were his best set of games. The coaches agreed.

After his return from injury it was about the reverse of that and his best games in the latter half of the year (e.g vs Essendon and NM) were actually the ones where he was involved at more stoppages.

So despite the common narrative, Holmes better games this season came as an on-baller. Whether playing inside more hurt his wing craft I'm not sure, but it was his capacity as an out and out winger that declined this season - not that he played poor games just when shunted to stoppages.

So what do you ascribe his down season to relative to last year? Was it something else or even just "a sinking tide lowers all boats" kind of thing?

Actually... you raise a good point - was this even a down season stats-wise for him? (TBH, I haven't checked)

 

[Mr Meow]

So what do you ascribe his down season to relative to last year? Was it something else or even just "a sinking tide lowers all boats" kind of thing?

Actually... you raise a good point - was this even a down season stats-wise for him? (TBH, I haven't checked)

It's a tricky one because my initial assumption was a little like most here - too much time inside, not enough time on the wing. But then on review it was only really his 2nd half of the Richmond game, and subsequent Freo game before injury where he was poor as a midfielder. His opening to season was actually bright. And when you look at things more closely, he had these weird quiet games on the wing. All the coaches votes came when he did his Dangerfield impersonation around stoppages.

It could be that "reintegrating" himself back to wingman mode presented issues. His year was split into two and it seemed like when he came back from injury he was told to revert back to his 2022 wing play. Otherwise it's hard to say.

Stats wise he got more of the ball this year but this could be connected to more time at stoppages - at least partially. His clangers went up by 25% but his total effective kicks only went up by 15%. He had 0.3 less score involvements less per game despite having 4 disposals more per game. So I guess it just points to his ball use being sloppier.

0.7 goals and 0.8 goal assists per game last year - he really put teams to the sword with damaging plays. 0.3 goals and 0.3 goal assists in 2023. That is a HUGE drop off for someone who has upped their disposal rate near 25%.

I think many, including myself, have been a bit harsh on Holmes' 2023 season only because 2022 showed such promise and his ceiling is huge. I think next season he absolutely has potential to be a 22 disposal, 1.5 goal/assist per game player either on the wing or on ball.

 

[PzBlinky]

It's a tricky one because my initial assumption was a little like most here - too much time inside, not enough time on the wing. But then on review it was only really his 2nd half of the Richmond game, and subsequent Freo game before injury where he was poor as a midfielder. His opening to season was actually bright. And when you look at things more closely, he had these weird quiet games on the wing. All the coaches votes came when he did his Dangerfield impersonation around stoppages.

It could be that "reintegrating" himself back to wingman mode presented issues. His year was split into two and it seemed like when he came back from injury he was told to revert back to his 2022 wing play. Otherwise it's hard to say.

Stats wise he got more of the ball this year but this could be connected to more time at stoppages - at least partially. His clangers went up by 25% but his total effective kicks only went up by 15%. He had 0.3 less score involvements less per game despite having 4 disposals more per game. So I guess it just points to his ball use being sloppier.

0.7 goals and 0.8 goal assists per game last year - he really put teams to the sword with damaging plays. 0.3 goals and 0.3 goal assists in 2023. That is a HUGE drop off for someone who has upped their disposal rate near 25%.

I think many, including myself, have been a bit harsh on Holmes' 2023 season only because 2022 showed such promise and his ceiling is huge. I think next season he absolutely has potential to be a 22 disposal, 1.5 goal/assist per game player either on the wing or on ball.

Nice, thanks for the analysis.

Reading through, it does feel like there's a mix of just up-and-down form combined with learning a new role and having to switch between the middle and wing. Hopefully it's given him plenty to work on and he'll take the next jump in 2024 - having him be able to play middle or wing (effectively) would be huge for our midfield set-ups.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

It's a tricky one because my initial assumption was a little like most here - too much time inside, not enough time on the wing. But then on review it was only really his 2nd half of the Richmond game, and subsequent Freo game before injury where he was poor as a midfielder. His opening to season was actually bright. And when you look at things more closely, he had these weird quiet games on the wing. All the coaches votes came when he did his Dangerfield impersonation around stoppages.

It could be that "reintegrating" himself back to wingman mode presented issues. His year was split into two and it seemed like when he came back from injury he was told to revert back to his 2022 wing play. Otherwise it's hard to say.

Stats wise he got more of the ball this year but this could be connected to more time at stoppages - at least partially. His clangers went up by 25% but his total effective kicks only went up by 15%. He had 0.3 less score involvements less per game despite having 4 disposals more per game. So I guess it just points to his ball use being sloppier.

0.7 goals and 0.8 goal assists per game last year - he really put teams to the sword with damaging plays. 0.3 goals and 0.3 goal assists in 2023. That is a HUGE drop off for someone who has upped their disposal rate near 25%.

I think many, including myself, have been a bit harsh on Holmes' 2023 season only because 2022 showed such promise and his ceiling is huge. I think next season he absolutely has potential to be a 22 disposal, 1.5 goal/assist per game player either on the wing or on ball.

I think Max hit his highest highs this year, but he just couldn't do it consistently.

The Adelaide game he was like a young Dangerfield, and kicked a clutch goal which ended up being the sealer.

Believe it was the Richmond game he had something like 22 touches in the first half? And then something like 5 for the rest of the game.

He had a couple of these games, where he just couldn't maintain the rage over 4 quarters.

If he did, we'd be talking about him as one of the best players in the game.

I'm hoping he takes the leap next year, but expecting a move back to the wing which might lead to some similar inconsistencies.

Clark, Guthrie & Smith could all be coming into our midfield next year as regulars, and we'll need some pace on the outside with Smith (Isaac) retiring.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Been enjoying the multiple views on this thread.

Interesting though that no one has stated the obvious. Ask anyone closely connected to the club and they’ll tell you that Holmes will be the next captain of the club.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Holmes would be a candidate, but if Clark is as good as hoped you'd think he's the obvious choice?

It wasn't just his playing ability that drew the Selwood comparisons, it was his leadership. If he's anything like Joel, then he's the man IMO.

 

[year of the cat]

What is it that makes them think he's a potential future captain?

Said in toffy voice, "the boy went to the Grammar. Not the right Grammar, but the Grammar nevertheless. That's the type we want as captain hey Roger. By the way, why doesn't he have a hyphenated name?"

 

[Reg Hickey]

Holmes would be a candidate, but if Clark is as good as hoped you'd think he's the obvious choice?

It wasn't just his playing ability that drew the Selwood comparisons, it was his leadership. If he's anything like Joel, then he's the man IMO.

Uh, no.

The current captain will be 34yo early next season, while Clark has just turned 19yo and played one game. ONE.

Even if Clark is god's gift to leadership, and even if Danger goes again in 2025 (questionable at this stage, let alone 2026), it will be WAY too early for Clark to take over from him. Even the great Joel had 5 seasons and over 100 games under his belt before being made captain.

If Holmes is made captain then given his age it will likely be for a long stint, so if they see Clark as a better long-term captain they may well choose a short term option to take over from Danger, such as Stewart or Guthrie.

 

[fargothegreat]

Is it likely Holmes gets left at half back now that he's made a success of it? Or is he chance to move back up onto the wing or on-ball?