Max King

[Meteoric Rise]

..and the end of the season?

At the end of the season you get the real picture Osho, my good comrade.

 

[Osho]

At the end of the season you get the real picture Osho, my good comrade.

I think you are in the wrong vicinity.

A short patch of poor form any time should not be extrapolated. Start or finish of h/a. It's not a Mooney GF moment. Your making the same error.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I think you are in the wrong vicinity.

A short patch of poor form any time should not be extrapolated. Start or finish of h/a. It's not a Mooney GF moment. Your making the same error.

You misunderstand me if that is what you think I am saying.

Mind you I think Noah Cumberland has now arrived as an elite player.

 

[RAPPA]

They said he would get confused by having too many different coaches with different messages

I’d rather be getting advice on goal kicking from the guy that kicked 926.424 than the one who kicked 578.370

 

[PhatBoy]

His kicking has just gotten too bad to ignore now so I’m off the max train for the time being.

Though in saying that, the fact that he was able to kick 0.5 and actually miss those chances having not seen the ball for a half of football tells a story in itself.

In addition to infusing their players with more appetite for playing 4 full quarters if I was the saints I would be in crisis mode and doing whatever they can to address it

 

[evo]

I'm not jumping off the Max train. I reckon he has a fantastic future.

Kicking action is solid, he just gets the yips sometimes . Lots of of great forwards have had the yips at times and fixed it, not least of all Nick Reiwoldt.

If St Kilda don't want him Im sure Richmond would love to have him for the next 10 years.

 

[VinnieB]

Now, how is big Maxy getting on?

21 rounds in so his season is starting to take shape.

47 goals. 8 goals assists.

Average 2.62 goals + goal assists per match. Where does that sit amongst key forwards?


1. 3.85 Hawikins
2. 3.6 Cameron
3. 3.55 Curnow
4. 3.37 Walker
5. 3.25 Lynch
6. 3.2 Naughton
7. 3.05 Franklin
8. 3.0 Wright
9. 2.93 Lewis
10. 2.75 Daniher
11. 2.71 Gunston
12. 2.66 J Kennedy
13. 2.65 McKay
14. 2.62 M King
15. 2.55 Mihocek
= 16. 2.5 Lobb Hogan
18. 2.45 Chol
19. 2.44 T McDonald
20. 2.42 Marshall
21. 2.4 Dixon
22. 2.39 Riewoldt
23. 2.27 Fogarty
24. 2.22 Larkey
25. 2.1 Membrey
26. 2.07 Taberner
27. 2.05 Darling

So in terms of key position forwards King sits a respectable but well below elite level 14th. If you isolate just the main target in each team he sits 11th of 18. But teams like Collingwood don’t run with a consistent conventional main target tall forward, and Chol, Lobb who are right behind Max double as second rucks. So from that very strong cohort of main target key forwards Max is a fair way below average.

And overall AFL all forwards where does Max sit?

Non-key forwards:

3.4 N Cumberland
3.14 C Cameron
3.1 T Greene
3.07. T Papley
3.05 B Fritsch
2.75 S Bolton
2.74 L Breust
2.65 I Rankine
2.55 I Heeney
2.5 T Stengle
2.4. J Higgins
2.3. C Wingard J Stringer L Schultz M Bontempelli
2.2. S McAdam. B Ainsworth
2.12 C Zurhaar
2.05. C Weightman J Ginnivan K Pickett C Petracca
2.0 J Jeffrey. J Elliott. L Ryan S Switkowski G Rohan


So big Max sits 22nd overall in the AFL for average goals + goal assists.

So I know many will hate me pointing this out, but that is definitely not elite by any sensible definition of that word. 8 contested marks in his last 6 games suggests big Max may be tiring a bit as the regular season draws near to its finish.

Hopefully does some good work on his accuracy over the summer and you would only expect him to improve next season but I think 2024 is more likely the year big Max breaks into the big league with the top key forwards. It is interesting to note his contested marks have dropped from 2.5 to 2.3 average from 2021 to 2022. And his goals + goal assists has stagnated at 2.6 across the two seasons. Some of his other markers like disposals, contested possessions and score involvements have improved slightly. And of course behinds.

I think your analysis is great for a 5 year old. Any intelligent adult will pick many holes in it.

Great waste of time to prove very little.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Kicking action is solid...

No it's not. It's flawed in almost every goal kicking fundamental.

He rushes. This is largely due to him being mentally shot.

Doesn't keep the ball still on approach, which means he's basically trying to kick a moving target.

Ball drop is high.

Doesn't get his weight over the ball, and means back instead. This is a cause of the high ball drop.

Pokes at the ball. Doesn't kick through it (not to be confused with kicking it too hard) which means the trajectory in the air is unreliable.

He doesn't leverage his non-ball drop hand for balance. So upon impact, his weight is all over the place. The left hand is used to balance the kicker and keep them from leaning left or right.

So he's not only leaning back and unbalanced, he's also leaning to the side unbalanced!

The way he kicks the ball, I'd say it's a fluke if he actually kicks one straight.

He complicates the entire process.

Now, where the gurus down at St Kilda will argue, is that I bet he kicks well at training.

The problem with that is there is no pressure at training. So doing something very complicated is far easier. When the pressure is on, you need an action that is simple. Very few moving parts, so to speak. So when your mind is racing and the pressure is closing in (which doesn't happen at training) there is less that can go wrong in your action.

I've said this plenty of times before, but if Max King knows what's good for him he'd get the hell out of Moorabbin as quick as he can!
Not only is their game style a nightmare for a tall key forward, they're literally allowing his goal kicking to go down the drain also.

He'll be the most wasted talent in AFL history if they don't adjust down there.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

How good will this guy get?

I think it's safe to say the new King of St Kilda has arrived.

The potential many people have been raving about for years has finally been unleashed more consistently, across the back half of 2021 and the opening rounds of 2022.

From where I'm sitting, injuries have always been the only thing that could stop this guy becoming an elite key forward and one of the very best players in the competition. But now, possibly earlier than even I expected, he's finally starting to prove it regularly.

Here's a question.

What do the following players have in common?

N Riewoldt
B Fevola
J Brown
M Pavlich
W Tredrea
J Roughhead
J Riewoldt
T Hawkins
J Kennedy
T Lynch
J Gunston
B Brown
J Darling

Apart from being the crème de la crème of key forwards over the past 20 years?

Answer:

1. They all averaged less contested marks per game over their careers than Max King is averaging so far in his career (2.12 per game)

2. None of them kicked at least 4 goals in 2 consecutive weeks within their first 41 games, ie: What Max King just achieved

Side note- Barry Hall and Buddy Franklin would've been on this list except they kicked 4+ in games 39 and 40, one game ahead of King who did it in games 40 and 41. Jeremy Cameron did it in games 31 and 32. Taylor Walker matched King with 4 in games 40 and 41.

Key forwards usually take 4-6 years to start consistently playing great footy. This is King's 4th season (although he missed most of 2019 rookie year with an ankle injury, only playing 5 VFL games). Harry McKay is a good example of this- 58 goals last year in his 6th season, previous best was 26.

The frustrating thing for me as a St Kilda fan, is that I can see King's trajectory unfolding before my eyes, but I don't see any other under 25's at St Kilda who look likely to become elite. So I'm not sure King will have the teammates around him to make the most of his immense abilities. (Although optimistically Clark, Gresham, Coffield and Higgins have shown flashes of brilliance. You never know).

Still this thread is about Max King not the Saints.

How good will King eventually become?

And how will he go this year? Challenge for the Coleman?

No good taking a heap of contested marks as a full forward if you can't kick.

 

[evo]

No it's not. It's flawed in almost every goal kicking fundamental.

He rushes. This is largely due to him being mentally shot.

Doesn't keep the ball still on approach, which means he's basically trying to kick a moving target.

Ball drop is high.

Doesn't get his weight over the ball, and means back instead. This is a cause of the high ball drop.

Pokes at the ball. Doesn't kick through it (not to be confused with kicking it too hard) which means the trajectory in the air is unreliable.

He doesn't leverage his non-ball drop hand for balance. So upon impact, his weight is all over the place. The left hand is used to balance the kicker and keep them from leaning left or right.

So he's not only leaning back and unbalanced, he's also leaning to the side unbalanced!

The way he kicks the ball, I'd say it's a fluke if he actually kicks one straight.

He complicates the entire process.

Now, where the gurus down at St Kilda will argue, is that I bet he kicks well at training.

The problem with that is there is no pressure at training. So doing something very complicated is far easier. When the pressure is on, you need an action that is simple. Very few moving parts, so to speak. So when your mind is racing and the pressure is closing in (which doesn't happen at training) there is less that can go wrong in your action.

I've said this plenty of times before, but if Max King knows what's good for him he'd get the hell out of Moorabbin as quick as he can!
Not only is their game style a nightmare for a tall key forward, they're literally allowing his goal kicking to go down the drain also.

He'll be the most wasted talent in AFL history if they don't adjust down there.

Agree with you about the high ball drop, and leaning back, but these are classic problems many tall guys have had sometime in their career that weren't named Tony Lockett or Jason Dunstal.

He's eminently fixable IMHO.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Agree with you about the high ball drop, and leaning back, but these are classic problems many tall guys have had sometime in their career that weren't named Tony Lockett or Jason Dunstal.

He's eminently fixable IMHO.

I don't doubt that he's fixable.

I'm just not sure that St Kilda are capable.

 

[evo]

I don't doubt that he's fixable.

I'm just not sure that St Kilda are capable.

Rats needs to get old mate Steve Kernehan down there, he'll fix Max's kicking up.

 

[MickG88]

Loving it, if he plays for any other team then you wouldnt get the pile on but because he plays for the saints who are "irrelevant", he copes alot worse then he should. a lot of salty guys out there trying to put a young kid down for what? Sometimes a fan said about him or hype he gets. Keep on keeping on you sad salty people.

 

[doggies ftw]

Naughtons fixed up his set shots a huge amount this year and his were worse than Kings - so if he can do it so can King.

I just don’t think King has it in him mentally to be great in big games though

 

[Kapow!!!]

Loving it, if he plays for any other team then you wouldnt get the pile on but because he plays for the saints who are "irrelevant", he copes alot worse then he should. a lot of salty guys out there trying to put a young kid down for what? Sometimes a fan said about him or hype he gets. Keep on keeping on you sad salty people.

If he played for literally any other Victorian team (especially a Big 4 team) or an interstate team from a footy state this thread would be at least twice as large with the pile on. Your victim complex is wrong

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Loving it, if he plays for any other team then you wouldnt get the pile on but because he plays for the saints who are "irrelevant", he copes alot worse then he should. a lot of salty guys out there trying to put a young kid down for what? Sometimes a fan said about him or hype he gets. Keep on keeping on you sad salty people.

I don't agree.

Personally, having played my footy as a key forward, my main interest in footy has always been kicking goals and watching guys kicking goals.

Nothing bothers me more than a potential gun young key forward that is wasting their career because they can't fu***ng kick!

It's infuriating to be honest.

It's infuriating because it's not a particularly hard skill, and secondly because it should be relatively easy to teach.

And obviously, it literally costs their team games.


FWIW, I reckon the focus on King would be higher if he were at a big market club.

 

[Millky95]

I mean if Buddy retires, Sydney do have a history of taking big name key forwards from St.Kilda...

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

I'm not jumping off the Max train. I reckon he has a fantastic future.

Kicking action is solid, he just gets the yips sometimes . Lots of of great forwards have had the yips at times and fixed it, not least of all Nick Reiwoldt.

If St Kilda don't want him Im sure Richmond would love to have him for the next 10 years.

He's fit in well with George & Bolton.

 

[MisterB]

Someone, please give him a copy of David Wheadon's book for Christmas

 

[Testekill]

They really need to just have King spend the entire preseason working with a coach who can help him with his set shots technique, Naughton needs to focus on doing the same.

 

[loki04]

He's a 3rd year 200cm plus KPF that's kicked 47.36 for the year to date. He is tracking very well.

Yup needs to improve his goal kicking but it'll come.

If saints don't want him send him to pies so Nick Daicos can feed him the pill.

 

[PhatBoy]

He's a 3rd year 200cm plus KPF that's kicked 47.36 for the year to date. He is tracking very well.

Yup needs to improve his goal kicking but it'll come.

If saints don't want him send him to pies so Nick Daicos can feed him the pill.

Fair. You wouldn’t want him getting pregnant

 

[Dazb86]

Loving it, if he plays for any other team then you wouldnt get the pile on but because he plays for the saints who are "irrelevant", he copes alot worse then he should. a lot of salty guys out there trying to put a young kid down for what? Sometimes a fan said about him or hype he gets. Keep on keeping on you sad salty people.

This is a massive reach The reason people are ripping in is because Saints fans have been saying he's a generational talent all year

 

[RUNVS]

Agree with you about the high ball drop, and leaning back, but these are classic problems many tall guys have had sometime in their career that weren't named Tony Lockett or Jason Dunstal.

He's eminently fixable IMHO.

The thing people forget about Lockett and Dunstall is that they were not actually that tall by modern standards. King is a good 8cm taller than Lockett and something like 11cm taller than Dunstall.

 

[Purple Suit]

The thing people forget about Lockett and Dunstall is that they were not actually that tall by modern standards. King is a good 8cm taller than Lockett and something like 11cm taller than Dunstall.

That's because they were born in the 60's. They were tall 40 years ago, hence why they were key position players.

Access to protein and other factors has increased average height in Australia so it's all relative.