Apples' Training Reports

[DraftBalta]

All he needed to do was have his tongue out in that second photo.

There's a hint of protrusion in the 3rd photo... but needs to work on it

 

[Stoods]

Getting a wee bit excited

12:28 PM - 15 Nov 2017

has he put on some size? that first photo looks as though he might of put on a couple kg

 

[Old Spice]

He might be young but after missing out on games in first year for not being fit enough, you don't want to see a player return in average condition. Kirby might have natural talent, but that's all the more reason he has time to work on his weakness which is evidently fitness.

They don't hand out time passes in footy. You've got to get it together quick or you're tomorrows fish and chip wrapper. He better get on his bike this pre-season and grab this opportunity. Blowing wind up his arse won't help him.

 

[Apex36]

Getting a wee bit excited

12:28 PM - 15 Nov 2017

Dat tongue! Sends shivers down my spine!

 

[Apex36]

All he needed to do was have his tongue out in that second photo.

Has it out in the 3rd!

 

[Kick It 2 Me]

Getting a wee bit excited

Quality photos DB. What's the focal length/maximum aperture on that lens?

 

[si tacuisses]

Most of the talk about Kirby seems to revolve around unrealistic expectations. He was not the instant saviour that we crave.
He is clearly a very good footballer. The performances and attention paid by opponents in VFL show this.
He is not midfielder fit, and may never be.
He is forward pocket fit and should get better.
He is fast over short distances. We need this.
He does not have a lot of endurance at present. He may always be a frequent interchange player.
The important thing is that he is a footballer. Most clubs have gone too far towards athletes and too far from footballers. I realize that most of the banter here about his endurance and supposed eating habits is meant to be amusing, but it is probably time to give it a rest.
As the purveyors of the stuff that drives some players to depression we need to be mindful of what we are doing, even on a forum like this. We don't want even a small part in ruining one of our own.

Seconded.

 

[unplugged]

Getting a wee bit excited

12:28 PM - 15 Nov 2017

Hopefully a few more of the lads have managed or manage to put some size on over the break. Seems to be a problem we have compared to some other clubs.

 

[unplugged]

Quality photos DB. What's the focal length/maximum aperture on that lens?

Ask Wayne Ludbey

 

[jmac70]

Dat tongue! Sends shivers down my spine!

I just got a nasty image.

 

[DraftBalta]

Quality photos DB. What's the focal length/maximum aperture on that lens?

Is that the technical term for ripping it off Twitter

 

[sr36]

The game does naturally need to re-adjust more toward footballers than athletes, IMO, but in order to keep up at AFL level and not be gassed 10 minutes into matches you need to have some level of AFL fitness. This result suggests Kirby is still a very long way off that.

It’s the same for guys that are slow through the midfield. Even if you can win the ball with the best of them if you’re bottom 1% for speed league wide, let alone by position, you will struggle.

Grundy's time trials were notoriously bad to begin with. What times did he used to post?

 

[didaksrightfoot]

What is unrealistic about expecting a guy that’s spent 12 months in the system running an acceptable time trial time? Over 8 mins is suburban football standard. I’m not going to speculate on his future in the game, but that time is poor with all the access he has to facilities, staff and resources in general.

He might be young but after missing out on games in first year for not being fit enough, you don't want to see a player return in average condition. Kirby might have natural talent, but that's all the more reason he has time to work on his weakness which is evidently fitness.

They don't hand out time passes in footy. You've got to get it together quick or you're tomorrows fish and chip wrapper. He better get on his bike this pre-season and grab this opportunity. Blowing wind up his arse won't help him.

But its about being realistic.
The guy is coming from a hell of a long way back. His fitness improved a lot throughout this year that he was a consistent performer at VFL level, was equal highest VFL goal kicker until the last round, and got his chance to experience AFL football (and see how much more work he still has to do).
He has also reportedly come back to preseason in a hell of a lot better shape than he was in 12 months ago, and apparently close to where he left at the end of the season... not sure how much more you can ask?

He has one trait preventing from being an AFL footballer - he still has a lot of work ahead of him, but the last 9 months shows he is on the right path. Get his fitness to adequate levels and he fits straight into the 22 I reckon. It likely won't happen this year, but I'm positive thay another 12 months in the system and we have our future forward pocket.

Dont forget the guy was a pick 50+. If he was "fit" clubs would have taken him around pick 20, and Richmond definitely wouldn't have been waiting to use a rookie pick. He was always a long shot, but I think he's a pretty good prospect for the type of pick he is.

I dont see how this is any different to young KPF's or Rucks who need to bulk up before getting a shot. (Moreso 10+ yrs ago, now the game has changed that you can get away with being physically weak). It was not uncommon for a young prospect to take 1-2 years in the weight room before they were ready for regular AFL footy.

 

[Scodog10]

But its about being realistic.
The guy is coming from a hell of a long way back. His fitness improved a lot throughout this year that he was a consistent performer at VFL level, was equal highest VFL goal kicker until the last round, and got his chance to experience AFL football (and see how much more work he still has to do).
He has also reportedly come back to preseason in a hell of a lot better shape than he was in 12 months ago, and apparently close to where he left at the end of the season... not sure how much more you can ask?

He has one trait preventing from being an AFL footballer - he still has a lot of work ahead of him, but the last 9 months shows he is on the right path. Get his fitness to adequate levels and he fits straight into the 22 I reckon. It likely won't happen this year, but I'm positive thay another 12 months in the system and we have our future forward pocket.

Dont forget the guy was a pick 50+. If he was "fit" clubs would have taken him around pick 20, and Richmond definitely wouldn't have been waiting to use a rookie pick. He was always a long shot, but I think he's a pretty good prospect for the type of pick he is.

I dont see how this is any different to young KPF's or Rucks who need to bulk up before getting a shot. (Moreso 10+ yrs ago, now the game has changed that you can get away with being physically weak). It was not uncommon for a young prospect to take 1-2 years in the weight room before they were ready for regular AFL footy.

Being realistic is about setting a minimum standard that a professional athlete should be able to reach after 12 months of training. A time beyond 8 minutes is totally unacceptable compared to what that standard should be, IMO.

OS was bang on blowing wind isn’t going to help him. It was only 7 years ago that Shannon Cox returned in similar shape and it cost him his career. Whilst I’m not advocating that in this instance I don’t think it’s worthy of the rose coloured glasses approach some are using.

I hate being so blunt because I like Kirby as a prospect, but he doesn’t stand a chance if he doesn’t improve that time by at least a minute in short order. Unfortunately he’s fat still by the standards of professional athletes and if we’re happy to accept that we’re going nowhere as a club!

 

[Old Spice]

But its about being realistic.
The guy is coming from a hell of a long way back. His fitness improved a lot throughout this year that he was a consistent performer at VFL level, was equal highest VFL goal kicker until the last round, and got his chance to experience AFL football (and see how much more work he still has to do).
He has also reportedly come back to preseason in a hell of a lot better shape than he was in 12 months ago, and apparently close to where he left at the end of the season... not sure how much more you can ask?

He has one trait preventing from being an AFL footballer - he still has a lot of work ahead of him, but the last 9 months shows he is on the right path. Get his fitness to adequate levels and he fits straight into the 22 I reckon. It likely won't happen this year, but I'm positive thay another 12 months in the system and we have our future forward pocket.

Dont forget the guy was a pick 50+. If he was "fit" clubs would have taken him around pick 20, and Richmond definitely wouldn't have been waiting to use a rookie pick. He was always a long shot, but I think he's a pretty good prospect for the type of pick he is.

I dont see how this is any different to young KPF's or Rucks who need to bulk up before getting a shot. (Moreso 10+ yrs ago, now the game has changed that you can get away with being physically weak). It was not uncommon for a young prospect to take 1-2 years in the weight room before they were ready for regular AFL footy.

He's mugging himself by not getting within cooee. He knew this was his one fundamental issue and now he returns behind the 8 ball in very average condition for a professional footballer. He's likely to spend the first half of the year just catching up to the coat-tails of the rest of the team. If he hits the field at AFL level he'll be scorched and we'll get burnt in the process.

I wish him luck but he'd want to get a wriggle on.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I just got a nasty image.

What you opened your fridge.... and saw no beers?

 

[jmac70]

What you opened your fridge.... and saw no beers?

That would be catastrophic

 

[didaksrightfoot]

Being realistic is about setting a minimum standard that a professional athlete should be able to reach after 12 months of training. A time beyond 8 minutes is totally unacceptable compared to what that standard should be, IMO.

OS was bang on blowing wind isn’t going to help him. It was only 7 years ago that Shannon Cox returned in similar shape and it cost him his career. Whilst I’m not advocating that in this instance I don’t think it’s worthy of the rose coloured glasses approach some are using.

I hate being so blunt because I like Kirby as a prospect, but he doesn’t stand a chance if he doesn’t improve that time by at least a minute in short order. Unfortunately he’s fat still by the standards of professional athletes and if we’re happy to accept that we’re going nowhere as a club!

What's the minimum standard for kicking accuracy?
What's the minimum standard for footballing IQ?
What about strength? Vertical leap? Marking ability? Pace?

Do you just dismiss every young KPF prospect who struggles to put on muscle mass in his first year? You give them the time to do it and look for steady progress while you are getting there.

Kirby still has a lot of work to do, but it is not "Rose Coloured" to suggest that he has made sizeable progress over the last 12 months and is on the right track.
Now he may not get there, and he has a lot of work ahead of him, but for a very late draft pick, who wouldnt be on much more than a rookie contract, i think what weve seen so far is reasonable... as i said before if clubs were confident about his fitness he wouldve been picked, at the latest, in the 20's.

 

[KrispyKremePie]

Getting a wee bit excited

12:28 PM - 15 Nov 2017

In the last pic, is he celebrating a goal, or is he angry at himself for kicking it out on the full


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Obese Arachnid]

I just got a nasty image.

I bet my image was nastier than your yours.

"You don't win friends with tossed salad......"

 

[Gone Critical]

What's the minimum standard for kicking accuracy?
What's the minimum standard for footballing IQ?
What about strength? Vertical leap? Marking ability? Pace?

Do you just dismiss every young KPF prospect who struggles to put on muscle mass in his first year? You give them the time to do it and look for steady progress while you are getting there.

Kirby still has a lot of work to do, but it is not "Rose Coloured" to suggest that he has made sizeable progress over the last 12 months and is on the right track.
Now he may not get there, and he has a lot of work ahead of him, but for a very late draft pick, who wouldnt be on much more than a rookie contract, i think what weve seen so far is reasonable... as i said before if clubs were confident about his fitness he wouldve been picked, at the latest, in the 20's.

Agreed. Think everyone here believes he still has plenty of work to do but it is a positive he presents in better shape this preseason than last. Equally I am sure everyone shares Old Spice fear that AFL footy could pass him by if he doesn't adapt. Has taken some steps in the right direction. If you asked me if I thought he would be matching Ramsay, Langdon, Shaz in the 1st 2k time trial of the season, which being a minute improved would have him doing, then I would have thought that way too optimistic.

He does need further significant improvement though.

 

[Kappa]

His fitness has gone from completely unacceptable to just unacceptable.

Progress

 

[Gone Critical]

His fitness has gone from completely unacceptable to just unacceptable.

Progress

I would say it was never completely unacceptable because we accepted him in the draft with a knowledge of his issues. In essence we accepted the problem

Better way to look at it is the club decided to take a punt on this kid because his raw talent is excellent. If we can turn around the other issues we can have a big win. Progress has been made although anyone may reasonably hope it to be quicker. Still we went in with open eyes and his VFL form franked our initial hopes. Not sure anyone should be unhappy about where we find ourselves 12 months after picking him. He is progressing with promise overall.

 

[Scodog10]

What's the minimum standard for kicking accuracy?
What's the minimum standard for footballing IQ?
What about strength? Vertical leap? Marking ability? Pace?

Do you just dismiss every young KPF prospect who struggles to put on muscle mass in his first year? You give them the time to do it and look for steady progress while you are getting there.

He still has a lot of work to do, but it is not "Rose Coloured" to suggest that he has made sizeable progress over the last 12 months and is on the right track.
Now he may not get there, and he has a lot of work ahead of him, but for a very late draft pick, who wouldnt be on much more than a rookie contract, i think what weve seen so far is reasonable... as i said before if clubs were confident about his fitness he wouldve been picked, at the latest, in the 20's.

I would suggest that apples with apples might be a good starting point.

IMO, Kirby’s fitness is league worst (or at best he’s amongst the worst few) as we sit so pick the league worst in each of those areas and we’ll make a comparison of how far they are off acceptable.

Thank you for reinforcing my point re the rose coloured glasses. He deserves hugs all round for improving from league worst by a long stretch to just league worst #progress

Perhaps with progress as our aim at the rate Kirby’s fitness is going we’ll be back in the 8 by 2025

I want to say that we truly are special at Collingwood for the lengths we’ll go to in order to avoid hard truths, but unfortunately I think that’s just the nature of sports fans and I’ve been guilty of it before too.

 

[ClaytonM]

It is the start of the preseason not the end. KK apears to have at least maintained his fitness over the break. Yes he needs to continue to improve over the preseason but at the moment there seems to be a lot of discussion about nothing much.

There is still 5 monthish to round 1.