MCG to host GF through to 2057

[Dan]

The boxing day test, 1 day final. Etc, etc. Does not make it correct if it ever wants to be a truly national comp. It's still a vfl boys club.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Good post

The footy fans from Victoria bankroll the northern franchises

If the whingers from Adelaide and Perth don't like the "Vic-centric" AFL, they should just go back to supporting their local clubs in the SANFL and WAFL and let the rest of us enjoy our VFL/AFL

HQ don't want to lose the other footy states even though the game would survive without them, they're a bonus not a hindrance. The league is by far better with the other footy states in it.

It may seem like it's bias to the interstate supporters but it's not, the landscape is driven by the market not bias. And that's just the blunt reality, right now I don't see every supporter from wa and sa turning their backs, those that are doing that are the exception to the rule.

 

[kranky al]

You're still missing the point, even if a billionaire creates a break away league and snubs the victorians another billionaire will resurrect the VFL because that's where the bulk of the paying and tv watching fans are if you're talking about Australian Football.

That would mean that the VFL would once again be the biggest comp in the land as it was before the AFL's inception.

How many teams would break away and survive? No doubt WC, Ade, Syd and Freo would, not so sure Port would. Bris,gc and gws? Well they'd need financial backing like they do now.

So how would this billionaire add new teams? pull them from the WAFL and SANFL? Wouldn't that mean pulling those state leagues to bits? Would that billionaire create more franchise teams? Where would the supporter base come from for them?

How many vic teams are in debt? Maybe the dees, dogs and saints but they're obviously still viable because of the combined fan base and to be honest those 3 teams aren't in unviable debt aren they? If they were they wouldn't exist in the top comp as they do now.

That's the blunt reality, the vic population outnumbers the combined populations of wa,sa and tas by 1.5 million.

Whether or not those states supporters don't like the current landscape is irrelevant, what is relevant is where the bulk of the market is.

This break away league may work but that would not be the biggest comp in the land for obvious reasons - blunt reality. Like it or lump it.

Who says a breakaway league would leave victoria out?

That would be madness. To set up a breakaway league you would start with the proviso theres more money.

Bigger salary cap x 2 or more - more of the streaming rights to go to the clubs to pay - no more subsidising minnow clubs and football department caps

You would hit up collingwood, essendon, hawthorn, carlton and richmond - say that you are signing the first 3 that come onboard.

Then over the next few years poach the best players in the afl as they came out of contract. pick the eyes out of the comp just like the sanfl and wafl.

If none come onboard start two teams from fresh - the big v - city and country - always drafts vic kids - do pretty much what the eagles did in perth - boil 10 clubs down to 2.

If everyone in the afl whos any good get poached by the aussie rules association - you get left with your original clubs being feeders to the new big comp.

Do the afl thing and set the big v up to win a coupla flags - market it as parochially af - just like west coast was marketed in wa.

Get out of the interstaters

wc
Dockers
Ad
Port
Syd
Gws
Bris
Create a tassie team
Then either 3 vics or 2 depending on whether any of the established vic clubs come on board or we create 2 teams.

10-11 teams - 22 round season - every team plays every team once home and once away.

Rotating grand final

 

[sprockets]

Who says a breakaway league would leave victoria out?

That would be madness. To set up a breakaway league you would start with the proviso theres more money.

Bigger salary cap x 2 or more - more of the streaming rights to go to the clubs to pay - no more subsidising minnow clubs and football department caps

You would hit up collingwood, essendon, hawthorn, carlton and richmond - say that you are signing the first 3 that come onboard.

Then over the next few years poach the best players in the afl as they came out of contract. pick the eyes out of the comp just like the sanfl and wafl.

If none come onboard start two teams from fresh - the big v - city and country - always drafts vic kids - do pretty much what the eagles did in perth - boil 10 clubs down to 2.

If everyone in the afl whos any good get poached by the aussie rules association - you get left with your original clubs being feeders to the new big comp.

Do the afl thing and set the big v up to win a coupla flags - market it as parochially af - just like west coast was marketed in wa.

Get out of the interstaters

wc
Dockers
Ad
Port
Syd
Gws
Bris
Create a tassie team
Then either 3 vics or 2 depending on whether any of the established vic clubs come on board or we create 2 teams.

10-11 teams - 22 round season - every team plays every team once home and once away.

Rotating grand final

You do realise the clubs ARE the AFL?

 

[kranky al]

You do realise the clubs ARE the AFL?

You do realise the clubs superleague poached were the arl - that became super league then merged and became the nfl

 

[Carringbush2010]

Who says a breakaway league would leave victoria out?

That would be madness. To set up a breakaway league you would start with the proviso theres more money.

Bigger salary cap x 2 or more - more of the streaming rights to go to the clubs to pay - no more subsidising minnow clubs and football department caps

You would hit up collingwood, essendon, hawthorn, carlton and richmond - say that you are signing the first 3 that come onboard.

Then over the next few years poach the best players in the afl as they came out of contract. pick the eyes out of the comp just like the sanfl and wafl.

If none come onboard start two teams from fresh - the big v - city and country - always drafts vic kids - do pretty much what the eagles did in perth - boil 10 clubs down to 2.

If everyone in the afl whos any good get poached by the aussie rules association - you get left with your original clubs being feeders to the new big comp.

Do the afl thing and set the big v up to win a coupla flags - market it as parochially af - just like west coast was marketed in wa.

Get out of the interstaters

wc
Dockers
Ad
Port
Syd
Gws
Bris
Create a tassie team
Then either 3 vics or 2 depending on whether any of the established vic clubs come on board or we create 2 teams.

10-11 teams - 22 round season - every team plays every team once home and once away.

Rotating grand final

Leave a victorian team out? So by this break away league logic it is to break away from the vic centric right? That's the impression I get from the posts on here.

So you're suggesting that vic clubs would follow a start up league and break away from the vic centric? How are you going to lure 100+ year old clubs from the devil they know to the devil they don't? Does superleague ring any bells for you?

Also, how are you going to support teams other than WC, Ade, Freo and Syd? And would Sydney go back as South Melbourne? Up for debate but hardly a decisive cog in the whole scheme. As I've said in my previous post that you replied to the other teams will need financial backing - is this billionaire going to do that?

Maybe so even then.........

As I've previously stated even if this quasi league gets off the ground it would never be the number 1 comp, it would be whatever is left of the current A/VFL, because that's where the bulk of the paying and tv watching supporters and members are!

I find it amusing that the less populated footy state supporters have this romantic idea that some break away league will be the biggest and best and the VFL will be left in it's wake, that's just folly!

The most damning stat is that the footy populous is in victoria, overwhelmingly so - far far away from where we are and far far larger than the combined of wa, tas and sa.

Fact of life, blunt reality however you want to describe it, it is what it is. Whether or not you or any other non vic supporter likes it is irrelevant to HQ because even if this quasi league got off the ground the game would still survive and the VFL would be the biggest, most attended and most watched league in the land. The population numbers of the footy heartland states say so.

 

[sprockets]

You do realise the clubs superleague poached were the arl - that became super league then merged and became the nfl

News flash: AFL isn't some minnow sport like rugby league was back in the day and it's of no importance overseas to make it worthwhile topping the money involved.

 

[Grin]

There won't be a break away league. The Grand Final will be played at the MCG for the foreseeable future. Anything else is pure fantasy by some fairly delusional and entitled individuals.

 

[telsor]

We begged? You mean we saved VFL from bankruptcy. Know ur history.

I think u r getting confused about what afl owns. And I don’t think u understand that club names etc only has to change when it’s gone through the courts.

By the time that happens, clubs can inflict severe damage on afl. And just like other associations, afl would be renamed to something else, with new set of rules.

Some Vic clubs get treated well and are needed in any new comp. absolutely. many others, say 3 can fall by the way side and would be war casualties. What then?

You don’t have to WIN, you just have do trash the place for long enough to force a change.

For a quite a while before then, WA clubs had been asking to join the VFL. "Can we join you? No. Can we join you? No. Can we join you? Well, OK, but you need to pay for your share of the VFLs considerable assets like VFL park...OK!!!!".

The whole 'saved the VFL' line is a myth circulated to make you feel better about yourselves...Ask yourself...Why did those who wanted to join the VFL so eagerly pay that money? If the VFL needed them so much, why didn't they get some concessions built in?

As for the rest..back when rugby went through superleague, the league forced/required the clubs to sign over the rights to all that IP in order to stop it happening to them, at least, not without putting MASSIVE issues in the way of any club wanting to do so. The AFL also owns all the players contracts...It's part of the deal with the AFLPA to ensure that if a club does go bust, the players still get paid...Clubs are just the middle men in those deals.

Any attempt at a split has been countered already. As I said, it'd be a bad joke is anyone tried.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Er because they informed everyone in a conference call a day it was announced. That was well known.

So,you are saying, because they informed everyone after they signed the contract, that they didn't confer with clubs before hand, is that right?

Now even if that is right, answer my other question, and don't come back with the crap that they can't, you know, because it's the AFL and they are not allowed to.

Why hasn't 1 club complained?

 

[telsor]

Who says a breakaway league would leave victoria out?

That would be madness. To set up a breakaway league you would start with the proviso theres more money.

So, there will be more money, after you crap all over the biggest market....uh huh.

Bigger salary cap x 2 or more - more of the streaming rights to go to the clubs to pay - no more subsidising minnow clubs and football department caps

No more subsidising minnow clubs...and yet your list includes Brisbane, GWS & Tas, (and Sydney & Port aren't exactly be financial powerhouses).

If none come onboard start two teams from fresh - the big v - city and country - always drafts vic kids - do pretty much what the eagles did in perth - boil 10 clubs down to 2.

Where would they play? MCG is under contract to the AFL for the next 40 years and the league owns Docklands. The 3rd biggest ground is in Geelong (and you didn't invite them). I suppose if Carlton joins, you might get games at Princes Park, but the council/residents wouldn't exactly be supportive so that would be problematic...you certainly wouldn't be able to expand the ground. (and of course, the state government would be completely opposed).

Also, if these clubs wee successful, 2 clubs in Vic would destroy the rest of the comp...you do realise the Vic market is bigger than the rest combined, right?

If everyone in the afl whos any good get poached by the aussie rules association - you get left with your original clubs being feeders to the new big comp.

Do the afl thing and set the big v up to win a coupla flags - market it as parochially af - just like west coast was marketed in wa.

Get out of the interstaters

wc
Dockers
Ad
Port
Syd
Gws
Bris
Create a tassie team
Then either 3 vics or 2 depending on whether any of the established vic clubs come on board or we create 2 teams.

10-11 teams - 22 round season - every team plays every team once home and once away.

Rotating grand final

So basically your idea is for somebody to come in with billions, who is willing to lose much of it by overpaying players in order to win them over while the revenue profile for the comp would be far worse than it would be for the current comp. Higher expenses, lower revenue...how can that not be a winner!

 

[demontim27]

Absolutely if you are into 2nd your lower level sporting events. F1 and aus open are the only world class events on ur list.

Then u look at London that has:
Top EPL teams world class
Top Rugby teams world class
Wimbledon which shits over Aus open

Then you have:

NBA
NFL
Tour de France stages (they did occur few yrs back, not sure if they do)
Formula E
London marathon (not some Mickey Mouse marathon)
Fa cup final.
Euroleague basketball

If u want to add in close to Melbourne events like rip curl pro then u can add in:

British F1
Moto gp

Melbournians do like to think themselves as big but what they don’t understand is that outside Australia, no one gives a shite about afl. It’s relatively speaking an amateur sport. It’s like me telling u that Dublin has popular Gaelic teamS. Answer is usually “so f-ing what?”. Afl is in that category globally.

You realise the whole “best sporting thing” is an award that’s already been discussed in this thread. Melbourne has won it three times from memory.

 

[LoungeLizard]

You realise the whole “best sporting thing” is an award that’s already been discussed in this thread. Melbourne has won it three times from memory.

Irrelevant, West Australians didn't get to vote.

 

[demontim27]

Irrelevant, West Australians didn't get to vote.

They’re gonna make their own break away award. Only non VIC cities are eligible

 

[LoungeLizard]

They’re gonna make their own break away award. Only non VIC cities are eligible

And if any other non-Vic city wins it, they'll break away again.

 

[Elite Crow]

So,you are saying, because they informed everyone after they signed the contract, that they didn't confer with clubs before hand, is that right?

Now even if that is right, answer my other question, and don't come back with the crap that they can't, you know, because it's the AFL and they are not allowed to.

Why hasn't 1 club complained?

We did

 

[LoungeLizard]

We did

Got a link to that?

Did you see the post match interview with Pyke after the GF?
He was asked a direct question, his answer didn't sound like he has any problems.

 

[Elite Crow]

Got a link to that?

Did you see the post match interview with Pyke after the GF?
He was asked a direct question, his answer didn't sound like he has any problems.

What’s a losing GF coach going to say?

And no I don’t, but Fagan came out afterwards and let it be known they had expressed their dissatisfaction to the AFL.

You seriously think the non-vic clubs are happy that the GF is played at the home ground of a handful of clubs irrespective of the whether they haven’t earnt a home grand final?

 

[demontim27]

What’s a losing GF coach going to say?

And no I don’t, but Fagan came out afterwards and let it be known they had expressed their dissatisfaction to the AFL.

You seriously think the non-vic clubs are happy that the GF is played at the home ground of a handful of clubs irrespective of the whether they haven’t earnt a home grand final?

I think most people at AFL don’t give a s**t. It’s only fans with too much time on their hands who spend their time sooking about it.

 

[LoungeLizard]

What’s a losing GF coach going to say?

And no I don’t, but Fagan came out afterwards and let it be known they had expressed their dissatisfaction to the AFL.

You seriously think the non-vic clubs are happy that the GF is played at the home ground of a handful of clubs irrespective of the whether they haven’t earnt a home grand final?

I can only go on what i read, and i haven't heard/read anything yet to say anyone is not happy.

Sorry, that's not completely correct, fans are not happy, usually those fans think they talk for the clubs they follow.

And a losing coach would not completely dismiss the ground had no bearing on his teams performance if he thought it did.
He was asked a direct question, not one hint in his answer.
Are you saying he lied?

 

[LoungeLizard]

We did

Ok, i found where Fagan voiced his concern, but it goes on to say Port WERE consulted, and are happy with it.

 

[kranky al]

News flash: AFL isn't some minnow sport like rugby league was back in the day and it's of no importance overseas to make it worthwhile topping the money involved.

We are talking about a takeover bid as an intellectual exercise right?

If you plan on taking over - you have to offer more. Noones coming over for shits and giggles.

Now when you

a) rationalise the team numbers from 18 to 10/11 - your most of the way to doubling the pot of money available

b) then you have the billions of dollars of tv rights - you arent going to do something like this in a vaccuum - you will be partnered with amazon prime or one of the other streaming services hungry for sports content and channel 9/10

that money is allocated by the afl to clubs - then to (mostly victorian) grass roots footy. Well you allocate a little more to the clubs instead.

That way they have a higher salary cap - can play players more and get to poach the best players - creating the momentum to make the new league the best league.

 

[sprockets]

We are talking about a takeover bid as an intellectual exercise right?

If you plan on taking over - you have to offer more. Noones coming over for shits and giggles.

Now when you

a) rationalise the team numbers from 18 to 10/11 - your most of the way to doubling the pot of money available

b) then you have the billions of dollars of tv rights - you arent going to do something like this in a vaccuum - you will be partnered with amazon prime or one of the other streaming services hungry for sports content and channel 9/10

that money is allocated by the afl to clubs - then to (mostly victorian) grass roots footy. Well you allocate a little more to the clubs instead.

That way they have a higher salary cap - can play players more and get to poach the best players - creating the momentum to make the new league the best league.

So let's say all the existing State teams bar Vic join this mythical league and you add a couple of teams made up of non-AFL Vic players to form the Vic branch. Which league will be more highly regarded? The one made up entirely of the best players in the country (AFL) or the one made up of the second tier? $Billions? No. TV rights with bids from Amazon prime? I'm a prime member and get very little (actually none) benefit from it, which is why I'm ending it at the end of the year. No. Take money away from grass roots to make the new league players millionaires? No.

 

[kranky al]

So let's say all the existing State teams bar Vic join this mythical league and you add a couple of teams made up of non-AFL Vic players to form the Vic branch. Which league will be more highly regarded? The one made up entirely of the best players in the country (AFL) or the one made up of the second tier? $Billions? No. TV rights with bids from Amazon prime? I'm a prime member and get very little (actually none) benefit from it, which is why I'm ending it at the end of the year. No. Take money away from grass roots to make the new league players millionaires? No.

Well im going to call it that with 1/2 the salary cap, it wont have the best players for long....

Esp if to start these vic teams they put substantial signing bonuses in place

 

[LoungeLizard]

Well im going to call it that with 1/2 the salary cap, it wont have the best players for long....

Esp if to start these vic teams they put substantial signing bonuses in place

So what are you going to have?

1 billionaire per club, or 1 to cover the whole league?

He won't be a billionaire for long.