Roast Media/McClure Misrepresenting Mental Mess on Mindful Camp

FR0GGY

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Trauma? A strong word. Please elaborate.
Assistant coach dying, coach being murded, (Jacobs lost his brother suddenly) losing a grand final embarrassingly, I’m really not sure why you’d even ask that, surely you hadn’t forgotten?
 

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John Who

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Assistant coach dying, coach being murded, (Jacobs lost his brother suddenly) losing a grand final embarrassingly, I’m really not sure why you’d even ask that, surely you hadn’t forgotten?
There are 2 separate psychological intervention we’re talking about, and you are merging it as one:
1. Psychological trauma (you used this term correctly)
2. Mental fragility/weakness

Trauma is more related to deaths of loved ones, or usually describing incidents that are serious threats to one’s well-being. I’m pretty sure psychologists were involved at the club in the last 3 years, by the fact that we had shown improvements in these years (except this one) and culminating in a Grand Final appearance which isn’t a minor achievement, despite the traumas.

Mental weakness is another kettle of fish. Where during the heat of a battle, players for various reasons, are not performing to their optimum. With the GF loss, the club has every right to consider players to do activities where their minds are being challenged to hopefully improve. The argument I’ve repeatedly stated, is that with mind training you don’t need to have a psychology degree. Because the simple observation that would tell you otherwise, would be a time when all professional coaches (their job is to strengthen the players physicality and mentality) are actually psychologists as well!
 

FR0GGY

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There are 2 separate psychological intervention we’re talking about, and you are merging it as one:
1. Psychological trauma (you used this term correctly)
2. Mental fragility/weakness

Trauma is more related to deaths of loved ones, or usually describing incidents that are serious threats to one’s well-being. I’m pretty sure psychologists were involved at the club in the last 3 years, by the fact that we had shown improvements in these years (except this one) and culminating in a Grand Final appearance which isn’t a minor achievement, despite the traumas.

Mental weakness is another kettle of fish. Where during the heat of a battle, players for various reasons, are not performing to their optimum. With the GF loss, the club has every right to consider players to do activities where their minds are being challenged to hopefully improve. The argument I’ve repeatedly stated, is that with mind training you don’t need to have a psychology degree. Because the simple observation that would tell you otherwise, would be a time when all professional coaches (their job is to strengthen the players physicality and mentality) are actually psychologists as well!
Leave the gf out then. My point still stands and I have no idea why Kirky would ask what trauma we have been through?

For the 3rd time I’ll ask, what do you think failing to do our due diligence relates to, we’ve admitted it and the AFL found the same.
 

John Who

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Wrong again.

Your facts are once again, not factual.

it not fact that psychologists are not needed for camps and team bonding experiences. You claimed this was fact and not opinion. It is opinion, and a wrong opinion

What matters, and what determines the level of care, welfare, and professional input is the nature of the activity. Depending on what was being done, to what extent, intensity and duration, would decide what input and from who is needed

You’re a quack John Who, a quack :)
Refer to my post in the above.
And I was stating fact, you don’t need a psychologist to be a part of any preseason camp. It’s not that it’s wrong to include one, but it’s NOT needed.
Refer to our premiership years and the respective preseasons, any psychologists involved in those preseasons? NOT needed.
 

Sanders

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Refer to my post in the above.
And I was stating fact, you don’t need a psychologist to be a part of any preseason camp. It’s not that it’s wrong to include one, but it’s NOT needed.
Refer to our premiership years and the respective preseasons, any psychologists involved in the preseason? NOT needed.
Repeating a wrong statement doesn’t make it less wrong.
 

John Who

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Leave the gf out then. My point still stands and I have no idea why Kirky would ask what trauma we have been through?

For the 3rd time I’ll ask, what do you think failing to do our due diligence relates to, we’ve admitted it and the AFL found the same.
Maybe they could have reviewed if there were cultural clashes when involving Aboriginal artefacts? Maybe they could have been more sensitive when dealing with players who were have mental illnesses at the time?

Or it could be a whole host of other maybes. Bring more bandaids? Bring an extra first-aid kit? More comfort-material blindfolds?
 

FR0GGY

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Bring more bandaids? Bring an extra first-aid kit? More comfort-material blindfolds?
See this shows you taking it as a joke when it’s not really for a professional organization.
And even worse when the person responsible is still there. Especially given that wasn’t his only failing this year.
None of the above has anything to do with the media (other than them putting enough pressure on the club subsequently) it was our doing.
 

John Who

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You have NFI about what is fact and what are inaccuracies

NFI

And neither do I FWIW. So why are you pretending that you do? Like everyone else you’ve chosen what you would like to believe, fair enough, but that’s all it is.

The report hasn’t been release there is no testing of the evidence or the claims.

There are no facts, there are no inaccuracies known. Just beliefs and biases
This thread isn’t about ALL the actual facts that went on the Camp (I can never know for sure). It’s about the bad practices of the media in trolling us from the outset, and to continually mess around with the club/players/fans. I’m analysing what the media is portraying what happened at the camp and their ongoing reporting, and what actual statements by them appear false/truth. There is a HUGE discrepancy between what’s reported and ACTUAL facts.
 

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John Who

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See this shows you taking it as a joke when it’s not really for a professional organization.
And even worse when the person responsible is still there. Especially given that wasn’t his only failing this year.
None of the above has anything to do with the media (other than them putting enough pressure on the club subsequently) it was our doing.
And it shows you’re being selective at what you wanted to read. I gave you serious answers on the first paragraph. The paragraph you quoted was my attempt at being funny, on a serious topic matter.
 

FR0GGY

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This thread isn’t about ALL the actual facts that went on the Camp (I can never know for sure). It’s about the bad practices of the media in trolling us from the outset, and to continually mess around with the club/players/fans. I’m analysing what the media is portraying what happened at the camp and their ongoing reporting, and what actual statements by them appear false/truth. There is a HUGE discrepancy between what’s reported and ACTUAL facts.
That’s what I was hoping for almost in list form. Ie
Maclure states McGovern wants out in July - fact
Frawley states the players were blindfolded for 24hrs - incorrect it wasn’t that long.
Mark Williams states players were tied naked to trees - incorrect
Maclure states - players were upset - fact
Something along those lines because I don’t believe it’s anywhere near the 95% false that you claim.
 

FR0GGY

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And it shows you’re being selective at what you wanted to read. I gave you serious answers on the first paragraph. The paragraph you quoted was my attempt at being funny, on a serious topic matter.
No I read that. The second sentence is pretty serious yes?
How are we still blaming the media?
The club (Burton) told us all was fine.
 

John Who

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No I read that. The second sentence is pretty serious yes?
How are we still blaming the media?
The club (Burton) told us all was fine.
Because you can’t expect there to be no upsets/distress when we’re dealing with the mind. Some psychology sessions have made people worse, when recounting their traumas. There are no guarantees with anything in life, more so in the professional sporting arena.
 

FR0GGY

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Because you can’t expect there to be no upsets/distress when we’re dealing with the mind. Some psychology sessions have made people worse, when recounting their traumas. There are no guarantees with anything in life, more so in the professional sporting arena.
Sounds serious, sounds like it needs to be dealt with by people properly trained.
 

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Do you know why organisations don’t sue in situations like this?

People get cross examined, under oath. People from both sides, and that can open up a lot of public scrutiny in areas you don’t want it
Can't see how any more damaging info than has already been alleged and subsequently found no to be true, could hurt the club.
Would love to see that ferret drained of his cash and have to sell his arse to amateur leagues to make a living. That said, I would at the very least be seeking a very public and very humiliating retraction and apology.
 

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FFS! The very same people here that complained that we shat our pants in the GF and that most of our players are mentally weak, are now saying that the club was wrong in sending tham to a camp to make them mentally stronger?
The argument here is nor wether something went wrong. It is what amount of it that was wrong and if the media reported it fairly.
Some of you guys believe that the media was more honest than the club in reporting the problem. You must have rocks in your head or hate the club (or someone in the club) a lot more than you pretend to.
I bet you guys are the same ones that burn Rucci for trying to keep our club honest.:rolleyes:
 

FR0GGY

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FFS! The very same people here that complained that we shat our pants in the GF and that most of our players are mentally weak, are now saying that the club was wrong in sending tham to a camp to make them mentally stronger?
The argument here is nor wether something went wrong. It is what amount of it that was wrong and if the media reported it fairly.
Some of you guys believe that the media was more honest than the club in reporting the problem. You must have rocks in your head or hate the club (or someone in the club) a lot more than you pretend to.
I bet you guys are the same ones that burn Rucci for trying to keep our club honest.:rolleyes:
I’m waiting for a list of all the things the media got wrong. John has claimed it’s about 95%
No one seems prepared to lay them all out.
 
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FFS! The very same people here that complained that we shat our pants in the GF and that most of our players are mentally weak, are now saying that the club was wrong in sending tham to a camp to make them mentally stronger?
The argument here is nor wether something went wrong. It is what amount of it that was wrong and if the media reported it fairly.
Some of you guys believe that the media was more honest than the club in reporting the problem. You must have rocks in your head or hate the club (or someone in the club) a lot more than you pretend to.
I bet you guys are the same ones that burn Rucci for trying to keep our club honest.:rolleyes:
Rucci is never trying to keep the club honest. If he was he would reciprocate with stories about Port. He never commented on say the SPP, Jarman Impey or Watts stories. His stories are pointed and exaggerated. However our club have brought most of the disasters upon themselves. Their media department only releases good news stories and is slow and in most cases reluctant to come clean on other stories. We still have not heard anything on our internal revue. I think it may have conclude last season was bad luck and nothing to see. "until next time"
 

John Who

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Can't see how any more damaging info than has already been alleged and subsequently found no to be true, could hurt the club.
Would love to see that ferret drained of his cash and have to sell his arse to amateur leagues to make a living. That said, I would at the very least be seeking a very public and very humiliating retraction and apology.
Absolutely spot on!
Even if the club doesn't get a public apology, we as fans can at least talk about it in a way so that they're on notice. Otherwise, imagine we all stay silent on this matter, the same media trolling antics would keep happening as it did this year!

This is a summary of the media in a nutshell:

"We (McNure/Wilson et al) care for the integrity of the sport, and mental health is really important...so ummm...we want to keep prodding for ALL the answers, even though...
all answers from the club and CM have been explained..
we still think something fishy is going on, and because we feel it is a "disaster/debacle" of massive proportions, and even though...
there has not been any formal complaints by the players or to the AFLPA (Player's Association), and even though there is no hard concrete evidence of such a "disaster" relating to the camp...
we know about 1-2 players being upset about the camp is enough due diligence on our part, to confirm that the camp itself was indeed a DEBACLE...and we would like to generalise fairly about reporting the club as a whole is in absolute disarray...because this is how we feel, and we really care for the Crows club and players...
Also, we feel the Camp itself was the key issue, that we don't feel hammies or injuries is worth mentioning or investigating further, that was just bad luck, and nothing to do with the fitness regime or Burton/Hass or whoever else. It was purely bad luck on the injuries front, so nothing more to do any investigative journalism...
meanwhile, while we're investigating on the camp, we would like to throw in a new rumour every couple of weeks...because...of our "sources", we didn't make it up, honest, cross our hearts", even though...
we had the chance on doing some interviews with the players (eg. Lynch 15 minute interview), and we just somehow (conveniently) forgot to ask the players to clarify the camp fiasco..."

"In short, we're not making things up, we're you're friends AFC and the fans, we're here to help find the truth and not make anything up, honest".
 

John Who

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John and the Frog get a room. The rest of us, let's put this away. It is sooooooo season 2018.
Onward and upward!
This thread is a pre-emptive strike against McNure/Wilson, because if we all stay silent about it, do you think they'd let it go for next year?
They're on notice, we need to show that we understand clearly their honesty and integrity is severely compromised with their reporting about us this year!
 

subaru

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I’m waiting for a list of all the things the media got wrong. John has claimed it’s about 95%
No one seems prepared to lay them all out.
We can always just do a search of your posts I guess
 
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