Society/Culture Media Silence over Women’s Violence Toward Children

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Norm Smith Medallist
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There is also murder misdiagnosed as SIDS.

Studies of sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS) have identified important risk factors. Educating parents not to put infants to sleep prone may have contributed towards the decline in SIDS. However, lack of specific defining features for the syndrome has meant that deaths due to unnatural causes, such as suffocation, where there have not been postmortem findings to indicate a cause of death, have been misdiagnosed as SIDS.​
In the early 1980s, Emery 2 and Taylor and Emery 3 suggested that 10% of deaths classified as SIDS may not be due to natural causes. Improvements in a range of areas are contributing to the decrease in the number of deaths of infants from natural causes,4 but limited progress has been made in identifying or preventing infant deaths due to filicide. This difficulty is being addressed. For example, guidelines have been published by the Committee on Child Abuse and Neglect 5 with respect to identification and investigation of sudden infant deaths.​
Meadow 4 has described clinical features associated with 81 children identified as having been killed by their parents. This series was drawn from 18 years' experience and thus represents only a small proportion of infant deaths. Dramatic and controversial in the study of a related area have been the covert video recordings 6 7 made of parents of children deliberately engaging in life threatening child abuse. While the numbers are again small they have served as graphic illustrations of the existence and form of a type of child abuse which is difficult for clinicians to imagine. The necessity for such evidence is illustrated by the report from Samuels and colleagues 6 of the incredulity some judges and magistrates expressed that a parent could have behaved in such a way, even after they had viewed the video evidence.​
Thus, studies to date have focused initially on the question of whether child murder has been misdiagnosed as SIDS and progressively on identification and general features of such cases. Our paper provides an unusual perspective. It is a summary of a verbatim first person account by a woman who smothered two of her own children. These deaths were misdiagnosed as SIDS. They were followed by further assaults on other people's children, one of which resulted in death. Its value is in the way she presents herself to the listener, rather than as a presumed account of her underlying psychological processes.​



 

FireKrakouer

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The insanity defence rests on a couple of points. Did the person understand what they were doing? And did they understand that it was wrong?

True psychopaths know what they are doing, and that society condemns their illegal acts - but they do it anyway and get off on it. A psychiatrist might say they are mentally ill but the court would disregard it.

I believe that Thaiday did understand what she was doing. She had made threats to kill her children before she carried out the murders. And she planned it to the extent that none of the children escaped. Her stabbing herself repeatedly afterwards was an indication that she knew what she had done was wrong.

I think Arthur Freeman was in a strained mental state but he knew what he was doing and that it was wrong.

As has been pointed out, society tends to think of traits of females as being more nurturing and affectionate. Given these preconceived ideas I think it's possible that Thaiday was assessed preferentially to Freeman.
Good points. My opinion is that it is largely irrelevant whether a perp was even aware of what they were doing. I can agree with it being taken into account when deciding if the perp is to be sent to a prison or a facility for the criminally insane, but my opinion is that all other factors (the sentence length, the media attention etc) should be the same.

If they have proven themselves capable of horrific violence, who's to say that they won't repeat the act again in the future? Even if they are a lovely person while not suffering from a psychotic episode, they still committed the crime, and are a risk of doing so again.
 

Seeds

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Of course they have, but in relation to children?

I'm not justifying anything. Reading into things is not healthy.
It doesnt matter what the source of depression is. There is no justification for murder of children.

When men kill a girlfriends toddler its usually because the child was an extreme source of annoyance that was diminishing their living standard and causes them to mentally snap. Not because they are serial killers who get pleasure from murdering kids. This in no way excuses murder. Not even a tiny bit.

A post natal women depressed about having kids can give her kids away to a foster home as a last resort. Even if that wasnt an option, which it is, it still wouldnt excuse taking their lives. Not even the slightest.
 

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Herne Hill Hammer

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Here's a statistical report on fillicide in Australia: https://aic.gov.au/publications/tandi/tandi568. The gender of offenders is really evenly split between males and females.

This is obviously a massive difference to the overall homicide rates (where males have many magnitudes higher offending): https://aic.gov.au/publications/sr/sr002
I'm away working at the moment, but this came up in another thread the other day. I'm pretty sure that in a specific age range mothers are overwhelmingly more likely to kill their child than the father. Might be around the toddler age.
 

Seeds

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She's being monitored - what's your point? So far your topic has been disproved by many people. Now what are you trying to do? Just take pot shots at her because she's a woman and Freeman who PLEAD NOT GUILTY TO INSANITY is an innocent victim?
She should be given the same punishment as martin bryant and ivan milat.
 

MC Bad Genius

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I'm away working at the moment, but this came up in another thread the other day. I'm pretty sure that in a specific age range mothers are overwhelmingly more likely to kill their child than the father. Might be around the toddler age.
It's on page 10 of the first link I shared, but it's split to custodial parent, non-custodial parent and step-parent. I couldn't find any age range where the difference was what you mentioned, but that could be because I'm looking at it at 2am.
 

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Herne Hill Hammer

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It's on page 10 of the first link I shared, but it's split to custodial parent, non-custodial parent and step-parent. I couldn't find any age range where the difference was what you mentioned, but that could be because I'm looking at it at 2am.
I'm trying to decipher it now.

The worst age to be a victim of fillicide is from birth up to 9 years of age.

In the period from 2000-01 to 2011-12 a female step parent has never murdered a child and there was only one (1) recorded instance of a female non-custodial parent killing their child.

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Hoops

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It has been a red letter couple of years for female violence against children - or more specifically violence towards their OWN children.

See below.





So the question is, clearly we have an engrained issue with toxic femininity, that needs to be addressed.

Also when do women and mothers get their Gillette commercial? Or perhaps Libra or Tampax can address this issue?

In all seriousness though, why do we not hear more discussion of this seemingly increasing issue in the MSM?
Is it occurring at a higher rate than male violence against children?
If so I don't think it's toxic femininity, when I think of femininity at the extreme end - child violence doesn't come to mind. To me toxic femininity would be eating disorders, cosmetic surgery and at the less extreme end - vanity and over mothering.
 
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HairyO

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This is the UK.

About 50% of the killers are women, and about 50% of the women are found mentally ill.

Dont want to pay $50 for more details.

Found a US study which found about 20% of the mothers who killed their kid(s) then kill themselves.


This one says mothers are about twice as likely to suffer a mental disease. But also says there are not a lot of studies examining the differences between genders.

It goes on the state fathers are convicted 2 to 1 compared to mothers.

There is plenty more info to be found Im sure.
 

Geelong_Sicko

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It doesnt matter what the source of depression is. There is no justification for murder of children.

When men kill a girlfriends toddler its usually because the child was an extreme source of annoyance that was diminishing their living standard and causes them to mentally snap. Not because they are serial killers who get pleasure from murdering kids. This in no way excuses murder. Not even a tiny bit.

A post natal women depressed about having kids can give her kids away to a foster home as a last resort. Even if that wasnt an option, which it is, it still wouldnt excuse taking their lives. Not even the slightest.
It matters and it matters a LOT, but for a reason other than criminal law. Consider pregnancy and the additional work a woman's body, her hormonal system, her immuno-defence and all that have to amp up for nine or so months. Then it abruptly ceases. If post-natal depression is like a 'withdrawal' to those extra conditions that some women are more susceptible to than others, and doctors can identify this before it becomes a problem thus saving childrens' lives, isn't this a good outcome?

Shouldn't all sources of depression be explored?
 

MC Bad Genius

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wow you couldn't find differences in male vs female sentencing ?
where did you look under your couch ?

find the nearest smart person to help you
How long did you spend searching ?

Did you ask Google, or friends?
Probably about 20-30 minutes. I went through a bunch of different reports put out by the ABS around sentencing statistics in Australia. I couldn't find any that set out how many defendants were either a) found not guilty due to insanity (not sure if that's the correct terminology), or b) how many custodial sentences were diverted to mental health facilities. If you can find something, please share it, because it'd be interesting to see what the numbers actually are.


This is the UK.

About 50% of the killers are women, and about 50% of the women are found mentally ill.

Dont want to pay $50 for more details.

Found a US study which found about 20% of the mothers who killed their kid(s) then kill themselves.


This one says mothers are about twice as likely to suffer a mental disease. But also says there are not a lot of studies examining the differences between genders.

It goes on the state fathers are convicted 2 to 1 compared to mothers.

There is plenty more info to be found Im sure.
I found quite a few studies about the over-representation of people engaged with mental health concerns in all manner of engagements with the justice system. That part isn't really debated at all. The last article you linked unfortunately didn't extrapolate why there was a sentencing difference between mothers and fathers who have killed their children, but I guess it's a reasonable assumption that it's because they were either found not guilty due to insanity or were sentenced to MH inpatient care instead of jail time.

All that being said, it would still be good to find some Australian statistics as the sentencing trends overseas are often not directly applicable to the justice system here.

Also, try Sci Hub if you're looking for a way to read full journal articles. Many (most?) researchers prefer people being able to access studies rather than being put off by having to pay fairly prohibitive access fees. Has helped me out many times! ;)
 

Seeds

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It matters and it matters a LOT, but for a reason other than criminal law. Consider pregnancy and the additional work a woman's body, her hormonal system, her immuno-defence and all that have to amp up for nine or so months. Then it abruptly ceases. If post-natal depression is like a 'withdrawal' to those extra conditions that some women are more susceptible to than others, and doctors can identify this before it becomes a problem thus saving childrens' lives, isn't this a good outcome?

Shouldn't all sources of depression be explored?
None of that matters for whether their is justification for slashing children with a knife. There is all equally zero justification. Absolute zero.
 

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