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tribey

5 Wins-in-a-row Certificate ‘13, ‘14, ‘18, ‘20
Mar 9, 2003
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Notice the change in the away team PF wins? Before the AFL assisting the Vic clubs, the higher ranked team at the end of the minor round won the PF, since then its been the lower ranked team that has won the PF. And 4th lost 5 of the 7 PF's.
Are we sure this isn’t just a natural symptom of diminishing home ground advantage at large?

Since the Essendon game in 2014 we’re barely above 50% at ThE pOrTrEsS and Optus Stadium, while still an imposing trip, is hardly peak-Subiaco. The SCG has become a graveyard for the Swans.
 

RussellEbertHandball

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Are we sure this isn’t just a natural symptom of diminishing home ground advantage at large?

Since the Essendon game in 2014 we’re barely above 50% at ThE pOrTrEsS and Optus Stadium, while still an imposing trip, is hardly peak-Subiaco. The SCG has become a graveyard for the Swans.
Nah look at the 3 examples - which in itself this decade, shows that its a rare occurrence. The home team is still dominating winning PF's, just these were the exceptions.

Sure travelling teams are getting better at travelling and winning away from home but this is the 2nd biggest game of the year and the home team, unlike the GF, gets to dominate the crowd.

* 2015 Haw 3rd beat Freo 1st at Subi, Haw lost QF to WCE 2nd at Subi, Freo 1st beat Syd 4th
- Hawks were going for their third in a row, were battled hardened and just like Brisbane in 2003.

* 2016 WB 7th beat GWS 4th at Syd Showgrounds, GWS won QF Syd 1st at Stadium Oz. First time bye before finals
- GWS 2016 was the first year they played finals, a lot of kids, beat Sydney in Sydney at ANZ as opposed to travelling to win the QF, and it was the first year of the finals bye. Plus WB had 3 or 4 guys that played in triple losing PF's in 2008-09-10 and knew this might be the last chance. Bulldogs crowd was about 50% of the total.

* 2019 GWS 6th beat Coll 4th at MCG, Coll 4th won QF Gee 1st at MCG.
- GWS have a better list of players. They were decimated mid year and were down to a minimal list of injured players, Ward, Coniglio and Delidio. They only just won.
 

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Ford Fairlane

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It's been a few weeks since the meeting. Have the people who attended received any more follow up? Are you seeing any movement in terms of improving our position which I assume was discussed?

I keep running into members who are still not committed to renewing or have dropped their membership back.

This is not going to improve unless the club starts pushing forward a positive narrative. Right now it looks like everyone is still lashed to the mast in heavy seas trying to ride through the big celebration.
 
Oct 27, 2016
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It's been a few weeks since the meeting. Have the people who attended received any more follow up? Are you seeing any movement in terms of improving our position which I assume was discussed?

I keep running into members who are still not committed to renewing or have dropped their membership back.

This is not going to improve unless the club starts pushing forward a positive narrative. Right now it looks like everyone is still lashed to the mast in heavy seas trying to ride through the big celebration.
Personal view - I have not received any follow up, but I suspect it would have to be via FishingRick04 anyway.

To be honest I am not expecting any, a follow up would have been good to respond to some of our concerns with insight on what the club is thinking as the way forward, but is not consistent with long term club behaviour. We did feed back at the time that we expected this would be a slow boat to turn, and would only happen through sustained better decision making evident, and improved game plan/performance on the field.

Accepting KH is locked in until mid next year at least :mad:, there are relatively few opportunities to show those better decisions. To me the Buzz was a solid start to show they have some clue about our depth challenge. I am still confident in our recruitment wing, that they must have seen something in him.

Other than this, the draft is the next opportunity, and there is some sub noise about our draft hand not yet being finalised and will deliver a good outcome. We won't know for a couple of weeks though and I am hopeful rather than confident.

Sorting out our captain is the next opportunity with plenty of hysteria on our side and some media commentary suggesting one captain, being Jonas. While I was a strong critic of Jonas at the session, I am also realistic enough to understand that getting rid of both incumbents after 12 months is probably a bridge too far, and could undermine a fragile club culture if he was the players choice. If he is appointed I would expect a lot of coaching and advice around media management ( Door stopping - be ready for likely questions) and ability to read the audience would be useful. On reflection maybe TJ comments at times perhaps indicate an inability to respond in the moment without saying something it is hard to take back (he doesn't strike me as the most nimble thinker...). Anyway I can live with 12 months to see how he responds, I would also think he is getting our feedback. As long as it is one captain wearing number 1.

Apart from this I am not sure what else can be done. I see Shirley has started some tweeting and look forward to him upping the positivity, but it has to build. I think the membership hit is a given now.
 
Oct 27, 2016
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Sacking KT can happen tomorrow, no delay needed nor justified
Technically can, but for all the reasons talked through ad nauseum on what seems to be every thread, won't be.
As an old man I am therefore choosing to not shout at the sky...… at least at this stage. ;)….and yes I am aware that using an emoji just reinforces my Boomer status.
 
Oct 27, 2016
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It remains important to distinguish between what can’t be done and what simply isn’t being done.

You’re letting them off on not doing things just because they don’t want to.
Not letting them off, my rubber band just hasn't yet snapped. Hoping that the penny has dropped for some at the club. I am not close enough to know whether the ship has started to turn, so all I have is a kernel of hope. Everyone is entitled to their own response but personally I would feel like I let the club down as badly as the current incumbents if I don't stay the course.

It is hard though and I understand other views.
 

S.Patrol.G

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It remains important to distinguish between what can’t be done and what simply isn’t being done.

You’re letting them off on not doing things just because they don’t want to.
The reality, quite clearly, is nothing is being done. There has been enough feedback, as well as a season of proof that co-captains does not help us win and directly costs memberships. If the club wanted to act, this could have already happened with a simple statement.

"We will have one captain, wearing number 1 in 2020".

Instead, we've had almost the opposite. As you say, they believe they know better. Change is not coming.
 

bomberclifford

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The reality, quite clearly, is nothing is being done. There has been enough feedback, as well as a season of proof that co-captains does not help us win and directly costs memberships. If the club wanted to act, this could have already happened with a simple statement.

"We will have one captain, wearing number 1 in 2020".

Instead, we've had almost the opposite. As you say, they believe they know better. Change is not coming.
I think you are correct.
 

tribey

5 Wins-in-a-row Certificate ‘13, ‘14, ‘18, ‘20
Mar 9, 2003
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There has been enough feedback, as well as a season of proof that co-captains does not help us win and directly costs memberships. If the club wanted to act, this could have already happened with a simple statement.

"We will have one captain, wearing number 1 in 2020".

Instead, we've had almost the opposite. As you say, they believe they know better. Change is not coming.
Yeah. That’s probably the clearest microcosm of the disconnect. From even floating it as an option in the first place, to the frankly bizarre rationale of it.

Backflipping now would be yet another example of the club making sh¡t up as it goes along, which has been a hallmark since the decision to pursue a disgruntled Patrick Ryder.
 

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RussellEbertHandball

Flick pass expert
Nov 16, 2004
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It's been a few weeks since the meeting. Have the people who attended received any more follow up? Are you seeing any movement in terms of improving our position which I assume was discussed?

I keep running into members who are still not committed to renewing or have dropped their membership back.

This is not going to improve unless the club starts pushing forward a positive narrative. Right now it looks like everyone is still lashed to the mast in heavy seas trying to ride through the big celebration.
As I reported in the thread the day after the meeting, I am expecting a report or two to be written and passed onto to staff and the board. It will be the actions after the report has been written up with recommendations, and read, that will determine what comes of the thoughts and ideas discussed.

I know Steve Shirley was impressed with what came out of the session, and will probably do more of them.
 
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Steve Dore

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The reality, quite clearly, is nothing is being done. There has been enough feedback, as well as a season of proof that co-captains does not help us win and directly costs memberships. If the club wanted to act, this could have already happened with a simple statement.

"We will have one captain, wearing number 1 in 2020".

Instead, we've had almost the opposite. As you say, they believe they know better. Change is not coming.
To me the fact that the club has rolled out a number of players to the media in an attempt to polish the turd that is half-captains says loud and clear that they did not listen.
 

tribey

5 Wins-in-a-row Certificate ‘13, ‘14, ‘18, ‘20
Mar 9, 2003
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To me the fact that the club has rolled out a number of players to the media in an attempt to polish the turd that is half-captains says loud and clear that they did not listen.
Mike The Mouthpiece crapping out that ‘Astroball’ article wasn’t a good sign either.
 

S.Patrol.G

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To me the fact that the club has rolled out a number of players to the media in an attempt to polish the turd that is half-captains says loud and clear that they did not listen.
Oh, I think they've listened. Unfortunately for us, we're wrong and they're right. Just take your free scarf, hold it up when we tell you and then STFU.
 

Duck Farmer

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“We believe in our best, we believe this group is so much better than groups we have had in the past and that gives us a great opportunity”
"And in a game where the margin between winning and losing at the highest level of the game is excruciatingly small (as we know better than most), this Club has always made the toughest calls to give our teams their best chance of success."

Keith Thomas on co-captains, 21 Feb 2019
 

OneGreatClub

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Nov 6, 2014
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“We believe in our best, we believe this group is so much better than groups we have had in the past and that gives us a great opportunity”

— Ken Hinkley​

At least they’re endeavouring to be more honest with the membership/supporter base 🤪
Well it does look like we are putting together a quality young team for the future.
Shame that the GCS are putting together an exceptionally talented Young team for the future.
 

ScottKaysee

Draftee
Feb 19, 2015
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It's been a few weeks since the meeting. Have the people who attended received any more follow up? Are you seeing any movement in terms of improving our position which I assume was discussed?
...
Hi FF, as mentioned above, most of the feedback (if any) will most likely go through FR, because AFAIK individuals didn't leave their contact details. That being said, I did have some follow up communications (and connected) with MR about another topic: the recent BA position and my prof background.

RE: movement by the club since that forum, nothing positively stands out. The return of Morris is positive, but this would have already been in motion before the member feedback session. Nothing from the club has filled me with confidence at all.

IMO we've decided to rebuild, but don't want to state that anywhere. MR comments that we plan our list 5 years ahead, KT comments we have the best U23s and our positioning for this years draft: gives me the impression that given the success of last years draftees (plus Amon, Houston, DBJ, Clurey) that they want to "ride that youth wave", bring in more this year and aim for "continued success" in 3-5 years time. Having royally stuffed up our last attempt. My fear is Hinkley being given longer to work with this new batch for that period.

Personally, I hate 5 year planning in an industry that can change so quickly via strategies, injuries and rule changes. It is filled with so much risk, as well as opportunities for excuses and time to sell "we'll be better next year". Additionally it makes it harder to attract talent if they know you're years away from you "success" launch.

I would much rather see a continuing 2 year plan:

- 1st year: absolute full on for the premiership that year. That is the message to all in the club and public. However, year 2 will be our back-up year, should we fail... otherwise we won, yay!

- 2nd year: if we failed, minimal changes on/off field. Locked down harder, better and re-launch in a make or break attempt. If we fail, then major changes on/off field are to be made... otherwise we won, yay!

- 3rd year option: only occurs if we made the GF in year 1 or 2. That is the trigger for a potential 3rd year with the same group.

- No GF... reload with major list overhaul and coaches (ie head coach).

- if we win, we continue with the group.

Shorter, focused, burst strategies for success. Opposition players would be more tempted to join knowing success maybe closer instead of 5 years away. Players/ staff can give more in 1-2 year burst instead of thinking about a drawn out 5 year strategy.

Anyway, I've drifted on for longer the. intended. Nothing from the club is inspiring me yet to rejoin (will pick up some merch though).

Cheers all.
 

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