Meet Up Meet Matthew Richardson at the club

[EternalOptimist]

So the elephant in the room, Hinkley, was actually discussed? Was it simply a matter of them stating he's going to be the coach next year so there's no point in wasting time discussing it? Was it in any way acknowledged that Hinkley is the biggest issue?

Not really but we did acknowledge it as the big ticket issue for us. Cant speak for others but I didn't want to go down that rabbit hole and lose the opportunity we had to tackle the large number of lesser but still cumulatively important issues that I think are undermining our identity. I believe REH indicated in an earlier post that we were surprised that we got as much football dept. discussion as we did ( probably because CD came in). Indirect coaching issues like game plan, short people syndrome, team preparation and in game resilience etc were certainly fed back in the discussion also.

 

[Lockhart Road]

Not really but we did acknowledge it as the big ticket issue for us. Cant speak for others but I didn't want to go down that rabbit hole and lose the opportunity we had to tackle the large number of lesser but still cumulatively important issues that I think are undermining our identity. I believe REH indicated in an earlier post that we were surprised that we got as much football dept. discussion as we did ( probably because CD came in). Indirect coaching issues like game plan, short people syndrome, team preparation and in game resilience etc were certainly fed back in the discussion also.

CD appreciated meeting with and exchanging dialogue with you all. His only regret was that he was told about the BigFooty ‘invasion’ less than 30 minutes before it kicked off.

He’s an excellent communicator by my standards ... but then I’m so easy to please.

 

[Steve Dore]

.... His only regret was that he was told about the BigFooty ‘invasion’ less than 30 minutes before it kicked off. ...

Even more kudos to him for turning up at such short notice and having an overlap with a prior engagement.

 

[FrankDrebin]

We had a top 4 list KT and Kochie said 3 years ago LOL

This is what scares me about the club saying "best under 23 group in the league". We internally overrate ourselves by so much it's embarrassing.

 

[glitch01]

CD appreciated meeting with and exchanging dialogue with you all. His only regret was that he was told about the BigFooty ‘invasion’ less than 30 minutes before it kicked off.

He’s an excellent communicator by my standards ... but then I’m so easy to please.

I'm willing to be corrected by those that know better but I get the feeling the likes of KT, Davies and Richardson do get what's going on and want to fix it but they appear to be hamstrung by the board and it's leader......

 

[Butters Made Me Do It]

I'm willing to be corrected by those that know better but I get the feeling the likes of KT, Davies and Richardson do get what's going on and want to fix it but they appear to be hamstrung by the board and it's leader......

Blaming everyone else for any failures is the privilege the present have over the absent. Its an even more likely thing to happen when theres no record of the event and attendees are asked to keep quiet.

Zero accountability for anything said because maybe those idiot bigfootyers remembered wrong, right?

 

[manureid]

CD appreciated meeting with and exchanging dialogue with you all. His only regret was that he was told about the BigFooty ‘invasion’ less than 30 minutes before it kicked off.

He’s an excellent communicator by my standards ... but then I’m so easy to please.

I do know he is also not a fan at all of the 'social media brigade.

 

[glitch01]

Blaming everyone else for any failures is the privilege the present have over the absent. Its an even more likely thing to happen when theres no record of the event and attendees are asked to keep quiet.

Zero accountability for anything said because maybe those idiot bigfootyers remembered wrong, right?

The sad thing is that there's every chance you're right......I like to take the optimistic view but currently that's not easy!!

 

[Butters Made Me Do It]

The sad thing is that there's every chance you're right......I like to take the optimistic view but currently that's not easy!!

KT has form

 

[PowerLil]

KT has form

He's the one.

 

[blaargh]

Making a Prelim Final is like making it to base camp at Mount Everest. That's all really. It gives you an opportunity to get to the mountain top. Finishing 4th, at the end of the minor round, pretty much means you don't get much further up the 3,500m climb to the mountain top.

Yes, but finishing 5th means you have to walk an extra 5kms to the base camp.

 

[StrappingTape]

Did anyone mention that the one captain issue isn't just bucking tradition but the despair that going down that path meant even reversing it, it will never be the same. You can't just go back to one this year and pretend that particular tradition holds weight anymore, it loses a part of its aura it will never get back.

 

[PAFC66]

What is your definition of a top 4 list?

What do you think a team that finishes 4th can achieve? Somebody in the top 4 has to finish 4th at the end of the minor round.

And more importantly, what has a team that has finished 4th has achieved since the start of the 2000 season, when the game went fully professional, ie every player was fulltime employed by the club, big money came in from TV rights, coaches had more than 1 assistant and the current final 8 system started?

Not sure why you're asking me these questions. You were there the other night weren't you? Should of asked them. They're the ones that stated this top 4 rubbish. More importantly though that view has now changed and the goal posts have as well whilst the same idiots are in charge.

 

[PAFC66]

Did anyone mention that the one captain issue isn't just bucking tradition but the despair that going down that path meant even reversing it, it will never be the same. You can't just go back to one this year and pretend that particular tradition holds weight anymore, it loses a part of its aura it will never get back.

I would actually be more impressed if they didn't fold. It's too late now. Just stick it out with your original co captain crap. Keep changing things and it's a good way to have a rift in the playing group.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Not sure why you're asking me these questions. You were there the other night weren't you? Should of asked them. They're the ones that stated this top 4 rubbish.

Did they or did you miss hear?

I ask the questions to you, to see if you actually have the ability to answer your whinge or you are only good at whinging.

So I ask again IN YOUR OPINION

What is your definition of a top 4 list?

What do you think a team that finishes 4th can achieve? Somebody in the top 4 has to finish 4th at the end of the minor round.

And more importantly, what has a team that has finished 4th has achieved since the start of the 2000 season, when the game went fully professional, ie every player was full time employed by the club, big money came in from TV rights, coaches had more than 1 assistant and the current final 8 system started?

 

[PAFC66]

Did they or did you miss hear?

I ask the questions to you, to see if you actually have the ability to answer your whinge or you are only good at whinging.

So I ask again IN YOUR OPINION

What is your definition of a top 4 list?

What do you think a team that finishes 4th can achieve? Somebody in the top 4 has to finish 4th at the end of the minor round.

And more importantly, what has a team that has finished 4th has achieved since the start of the 2000 season, when the game went fully professional, ie every player was full time employed by the club, big money came in from TV rights, coaches had more than 1 assistant and the current final 8 system started?

What's your point? Whinging? I'm confused more than anything else.

I actually never thought we had top 4 list , nor did I ask the question , it was our president and CEO who was quoted to be saying this 3-4 years ago. We had a good enough list to challenge and be competitive against the best those years but ultimately didn't even make the 8 (except 2017) which is was well below par. The point I was trying to make was that how can management state we had a top 4 list ( you're looking at it too specifically by the way) and then 3 years later change the plan completely from having a short term goal of attacking a flag , going all in to completely looking at a rebuild whilst nobody loses their jobs?

I feel like you're another one of those fans that drinks the koolaid ken gives out re "what's the point of making finals if you can't win it" approach and that's fine , whatever helps you deal with our situation.

 

[PAFC66]

This is what scares me about the club saying "best under 23 group in the league". We internally overrate ourselves by so much it's embarrassing.

In 2015/2016 that was a wide view held by "expert" commentators even from Victoria. It's amazing this club doesn't get more heat than it does especially here in Vic.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

What's your point? Whinging? I'm confused more than anything else.

I actually never thought we had top 4 list , nor did I ask the question , it was our president and CEO who was quoted to be saying this 3-4 years ago. We had a good enough list to challenge and be competitive against the best those years but ultimately didn't even make the 8 (except 2017) which is was well below par. The point I was trying to make was that how can management state we had a top 4 list ( you're looking at it too specifically by the way) and then 3 years later change the plan completely from having a short term goal of attacking a flag , going all in to completely looking at a rebuild whilst nobody loses their jobs?

I feel like you're another one of those fans that drinks the koolaid ken gives out re "what's the point of making finals if you can't win it" approach and that's fine , whatever helps you deal with our situation.

I agree people should be replaced. But they haven't been, and you and I can't do anything about it.

If I could, I would.

KT has never had the guts to say we had a Top 4 list. He and Koch talk about being competitive.

The point is this, you and most of people that watch the game have bought the stupid kool aid re a Top 4 team. being a great thing. Good yes. Great no.

I too stupidly thought finishing Top 4 means you can win a flag. But 2 years ago I changed my mind.

Finishing 4th is near useless to winning a flag that year. If you want to win a flag you have to be a Top 2 team, especially if you are a non Vic team, which is what my team is.

The Talk should be we are a Top 2 team, if we are serious about winning a flag. Top 4 is meaningless, since the AFL went full time in 2000, the year the current Final 8 system was first used and big $$ entered the game via mega TV deals. The 4th team has made the GF twice, 2002 Collingwood and 2006 Sydney see below re their WCE rivalry.

Its good marketing s**t for clubs, the AFL, media and footy fans thinking, oh we/they made the Top 4 we/they can win a flag, lets all get excited and hype this all up.

You only win from 3rd if you are a battle hardened team, like Brisbane in 2003 when they became a triple heavy weight champion from 3rd, or Hawthorn in 2015 when they did the triple from 3rd, or

Sydney who had played finals in 9 years of the previous 10 years (including the 2005 flag) in 2012 and were battle hardened, or

Richmond in 2017 and play their away QF at the MCG where they play their home games and up to another 6 away games, or 2019 when they are battle hardened the best side of the last 3 seasons and luck out and play a bunch of kids in away QF, but mainly finished 3rd because of injury riddled first half of the year, or

Sydney in 2005 at the start of a 10 game run against the Eagles where 8 games were less than 6 pt margins and one was a 12 pt margin. there was nothing between them and the Eagles in both finals and the same in 2006.

This is what KT said in July 2016 when he was pushed where Port was at;

Thomas rates the Power's list as challenged, but worthy

But chief exective admits the Power has been challenged in 2016.

www.portadelaidefc.com.au

Asked if Port's list still had top four or top six credentials, Thomas replied: "We have that sort of a list. "Clearly our depth has been challenged this year. "If you have a look at the sort of injuries we have had, we have had a big part of our backline dismantled ... but I think the backline has held up really, really well....... "So my view is a full list at Port Adelaide is highly competitive against everyone in the competition."

I suspect KT and co don't get it, that finishing 3rd or 4th doesn't mean we can win a flag after not winning a final since 2014. They have bought the same kool aid you have bought re the importance of being a Top 4 side. Its a stepping stone, that's all.

But I reckon they have changed because they realised the list they have been building can't get past just being highly competitive. They have changed direction, but have still got the wrong bloke driving the car down the new road.

Finish 4th this year and you might finish bottom 4 the next year, see Melbourne as an example.

Yes, but finishing 5th means you have to walk an extra 5kms to the base camp.

Correct, but is a team that finishes 4th and wins 14 or 15 games and say jumps on a plane 4 times a year that superior a side/list, compared to the one that finishes 5th or 6th or 7th who wins 13 or 14 games and jumps on a plane 10 times a year??

We have a side that physically is good enough to finish as high as 4th, but mentally they are too weak to win enough games against similar sides to get there. Part of the change is to weed out the mental weakinlings who have failed too often. They have a few more to go.

People know the book Moneyball. But nearly everyone doesn't know the subtitle - The Art of Winning an Unfair Game.

The AFL FIXture makes it an unfair game - re winning the flag.

That's why pumping it up that we are a Top 4 team is something super special is rubbish, that you can win a flag from there this year.

4th is better than 5th or 6th or 7th, and 3rd is better than 4th, and yes we have to make the finals first, but if we are talking winning flags, then finishing Top 4 for a non Vic side is useless.

Its finishing Top 2 that has real meaning.

 

[Steve Dore]

I do know he is also not a fan at all of the 'social media brigade.

Posted on here as Portman1 or something trying to defend himself.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

I agree people should be replaced. But they haven't been, and you and I can't do anything about it.

If I could, I would.

KT has never had the guts to say we had a Top 4 list. He and Koch talk about being competitive.

The point is this, you and most of people that watch the game have bought the stupid kool aid re a Top 4 team. being a great thing. Good yes. Great no.

I too stupidly thought finishing Top 4 means you can win a flag. But 2 years ago I changed my mind.

Finishing 4th is near useless to winning a flag that year. If you want to win a flag you have to be a Top 2 team, especially if you are a non Vic team, which is what my team is.

The Talk should be we are a Top 2 team, if we are serious about winning a flag. Top 4 is meaningless, since the AFL went full time in 2000, the year the current Final 8 system was first used and big $$ entered the game via mega TV deals. The 4th team has made the GF twice, 2002 Collingwood and 2006 Sydney see below re their WCE rivalry.

Its good marketing s**t for clubs, the AFL, media and footy fans thinking, oh we/they made the Top 4 we/they can win a flag, lets all get excited and hype this all up.

You only win from 3rd if you are a battle hardened team, like Brisbane in 2003 when they became a triple heavy weight champion from 3rd, or Hawthorn in 2015 when they did the triple from 3rd, or

Sydney who had played finals in 9 years of the previous 10 years (including the 2005 flag) in 2012 and were battle hardened, or

Richmond in 2017 and play their away QF at the MCG where they play their home games and up to another 6 away games, or 2019 when they are battle hardened the best side of the last 3 seasons and luck out and play a bunch of kids in away QF, but mainly finished 3rd because of injury riddled first half of the year, or

Sydney in 2005 at the start of a 10 game run against the Eagles where 8 games were less than 6 pt margins and one was a 12 pt margin. there was nothing between them and the Eagles in both finals and the same in 2006.

This is what KT said in July 2016 when he was pushed where Port was at;

Thomas rates the Power's list as challenged, but worthy

But chief exective admits the Power has been challenged in 2016.

www.portadelaidefc.com.au

Asked if Port's list still had top four or top six credentials, Thomas replied: "We have that sort of a list. "Clearly our depth has been challenged this year. "If you have a look at the sort of injuries we have had, we have had a big part of our backline dismantled ... but I think the backline has held up really, really well....... "So my view is a full list at Port Adelaide is highly competitive against everyone in the competition."

I suspect KT and co don't get it, that finishing 3rd or 4th doesn't mean we can win a flag after not winning a final since 2014. They have bought the same kool aid you have bought re the importance of being a Top 4 side. Its a stepping stone, that's all.

But I reckon they have changed because they realised the list they have been building can't get past just being highly competitive. They have changed direction, but have still got the wrong bloke driving the car down the new road.

Finish 4th this year and you might finish bottom 4 the next year, see Melbourne as an example.


Correct, but is a team that finishes 4th and wins 14 or 15 games and say jumps on a plane 4 times a year that superior a side/list, compared to the one that finishes 5th or 6th or 7th who wins 13 or 14 games and jumps on a plane 10 times a year??

We have a side that physically is good enough to finish as high as 4th, but mentally they are too weak to win enough games against similar sides to get there. Part of the change is to weed out the mental weakinlings who have failed too often. They have a few more to go.

People know the book Moneyball. But nearly everyone doesn't know the subtitle - The Art of Winning an Unfair Game.

The AFL FIXture makes it an unfair game - re winning the flag.

That's why pumping it up that we are a Top 4 team is something super special is rubbish, that you can win a flag from there this year.

4th is better than 5th or 6th or 7th, and 3rd is better than 4th, and yes we have to make the finals first, but if we are talking winning flags, then finishing Top 4 for a non Vic side is useless.

Its finishing Top 2 that has real meaning.

It seems more like hope than a plan.

If everything goes right then hopefully we can make finals.

If everything really falls our way then hopefully we can scrape into the top 4.

If we scrape in to the top 4 then you never know... hopefully the game goes our way and we can scrape into a grand final.

If we make a grand final we are a 50:50 chance (theoretically).

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

It seems more like hope than a plan.

If everything goes right then hopefully we can make finals.

If everything really falls our way then hopefully we can scrape into the top 4.

If we scrape in to the top 4 then you never know... hopefully the game goes our way and we can scrape into a grand final.

If we make a grand final we are a 50:50 chance (theoretically).

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

All clubs have to sell hope. We have been in the hope selling business for a long time, especially since our disastrous 2011 and almost won the wooden spoon.

The media and AFL push the hope angle, to keep up the commercial side of the industry.

I have spent 11 years studying how sides build for a flag. When you hear a coach or club say they are a Top 2 side, then you know they are serious about winning the flag and prepared to put it out there.

Yes you have to build to it, but reality is, you need to finish Top 2 unless there are exceptional circumstances.

The Magic Number is 17 + or - 1. That's the number of games you need to win to get to Top 2. The rational bit.

But most of us footy fans, the media, clubs, the AFL etc want 1+1 = 3 type Magic.

The rational bit of the real world is 1+1 = 2 and what makes it go round. But we are all looking for 1+1 = 3.

 

[GremioPower]

I'm willing to be corrected by those that know better but I get the feeling the likes of KT, Davies and Richardson do get what's going on and want to fix it but they appear to be hamstrung by the board and it's leader......

The biggest issue isn't Hinkley...

 

[GremioPower]

Its finishing Top 2 that has real meaning.

It is Top-3, for some odd reason. #4 can't win it at all, but #3 has done it often enough.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

It is Top-3, for some odd reason. #4 can't win it at all, but #3 has done it often enough.

But how many times do you get triple heavyweight champions in their 3rd year do it?

How many times do you get a team that has made the finals 9 out of 10 years and has a premiership in the middle of that run and play their away QF in a state that they have a positive W/L record in that 10 years?

How many times do you get a side that plays 15 games at the MCG each year and plays their away QF at the MCG rather than elsewhere at their opponents true home gound?

You finish 3rd and win a flag when there are exceptional circumstances. And looking at this with a Port bias, I don't see any exceptional circumstances for us on the horizon.

 

[PAFC66]

I think it's not unreasonable to expect a top 4 list to finish top 4 in the regular season at least once.

Yep. 12 years and counting. Forget top 4, we are aiming for top 2.