Expansion Melbourne homecoming

[Roaming Lou]

Many know of the tragedy of the South Melbourne Swans and the Fitzroy Lions.
But for a quick recap both teams in the end were suffering from poor performances and financial difficulties. This resulted in South Melbourne moving to Sydney in 1981, becoming the Sydney Swans, and Fitzroy merging with the Brisbane Bears in 1996 to become the Brisbane Lions.
Although both teams are "dead" (in the AFL sense) they are not forgotten, and there is still support for the clubs.
Please tell me if you support some sort of demerging process with Fitzroy and the Bears and the Swans with Sydney (I would support a new Sydney team taking the Swans place, and bugger off with GWS, I know most people in Sydney don't care about AFL but they will care less if they have to follow big big sound), and do you reckon these teams can be economically viable.
(Please, not I do not want a thread telling why they died, but how they can be reinstated) ( also this thread is about your own opinion, its not about whether the AFL will support it or not)

 

[Kwality]

WHY, there is too much footy in Melbourne already, games sent to Ballarat, Hobart, Launceston, Alice Springs, Darwin, Cairns, Townsville .... you dont need to pull footy from NSW & Q., even tried to move games out of Melbourne to NZ (they wouldnt pay so it failed) & its a St Kilda game that goes to China.

Resurrect Fitzroy, why not University?

Address WHY there is too much footy in Melbourne.

 

[NoobPie]

Many know of the tragedy of the South Melbourne Swans and the Fitzroy Lions.
But for a quick recap both teams in the end were suffering from poor performances and financial difficulties. This resulted in South Melbourne moving to Sydney in 1981, becoming the Sydney Swans, and Fitzroy merging with the Brisbane Bears in 1996 to become the Brisbane Lions.
Although both teams are "dead" they are not forgotten, and there is still support for the clubs.
Please tell me if you support some sort of demerging process with Fitzroy and the Bears and the Swans with Sydney (I would support a new Sydney team taking the Swans place, and bugger off with GWS, I know most people in Sydney don't care about AFL but they will care less if they have to follow big big sound), and do you reckon these teams can be economically viable.
(Please, not I do not want a thread telling why they died, but how they can be reinstated)

A truly bizarre thread.

The swans have been in Sydney for 38 years. A majority of their Melbourne based fans wouldn't even remember them being in Melbourne

They are also the biggest football club of any code north of the Murray.

 

[craffles]

Yea do it.

Can we bring back mullets and BYO beers to the footy too

 

[Rob]

This is worse than the 3rd SA team thread.

 

[The_Reaper]

A truly bizarre thread.

The swans have been in Sydney for 38 years. A majority of their Melbourne based fans wouldn't even remember them being in Melbourne

They are also the biggest football club of any code north of the Murray.

The Broncos are surely the most supported club in the nation.

 

[Roaming Lou]

This is worse than the 3rd SA team thread.

And the comment was almost worse than the 2nd WA team
(JK plz don't start a thread war over this comment)

 

[NoobPie]

The Broncos are surely the most supported club in the nation.

On what basis though?

 

[Roaming Lou]

A truly bizarre thread.

The swans have been in Sydney for 38 years. A majority of their Melbourne based fans wouldn't even remember them being in Melbourne

They are also the biggest football club of any code north of the Murray.

Now I do partly agree with you and this is more of a survey thread rather than an opinion thread but the point I'm trying to put across is that there is a demerging process, meaning they might get a VAFA team first and that after a while leads to a VFL team and then an AFL team.
Plus all that really changes at Sydney is maybe they lose 2 or so players and the Swans mascot, other than that sth melb should be team entirely from scratch.
And I'm sure they will do better than Gold Coast

 

[Rob]

The Broncos are surely the most supported club in the nation.

The team with an average home crowd of 29,500? Nah.

 

[Roaming Lou]

The team with an average home crowd of 29,500? Nah.

dude have you seen the sports bet AFL NRL wife swap
NRL supporters don't go to the games
They watch them on the TV

 

[NoobPie]

Now I do partly agree with you and this is more of a survey thread rather than an opinion thread but the point I'm trying to put across is that there is a demerging process, meaning they might get a VAFA team first and that after a while leads to a VFL team and then an AFL team.
Plus all that really changes at Sydney is maybe they lose 2 or so players and the Swans mascot, other than that sth melb should be team entirely from scratch.
And I'm sure they will do better than Gold Coast

But the Sydney Swans are south Melbourne. The club moved there. You would ironically be disenfranchising the old South Melbourne fans as much as the Sydney fans that have been following the swans for two generations

Also ironically the Fitzroy football club is still it's own entity playing in the vafa

 

[NoobPie]

dude have you seen the sports bet AFL NRL wife swap
NRL supporters don't go to the games
They watch them on the TV

And yet the AFL still has significantly more tv viewers. Bottom line is if the Broncos were an AFL club they'd be well below average in memberships, attendances and revenues

 

[Roaming Lou]

And yet the AFL still has significantly more tv viewers. Bottom line is if the Broncos were an AFL club they'd be well below average in memberships, attendances and revenues

That was a joke comment, fair point anyway

 

[Roylion]

Although both teams are "dead" they are not forgotten, and there is still support for the clubs.

For the umpteenth time, Fitzroy is not dead. The Fitzroy Football Club still exists in its own right in Melbourne, playing out of its orgiinal home at the Brunswick Street Oval representing the suburb Fitzroy, which they ahve been doing for the past ten years. From 1997 - 2008, the club was effectively in recess with no on-field team. Fitzroy currently play against the University Football Club.

Last year was their first clash since 1914 since both competed in the VFL.

Incidentally I am a current member and shareholder of the Fitzroy Football Club (formed 1883) and have been since the club was in thE AFL.

Please tell me if you support some sort of demerging process with Fitzroy and the Bears

There will be no "demerging" process. There was no merger between the Brisbane Bears and Fitzroy to "demerge". All the Brisbane Bears did in 1996 was acquire some Fitzroy assets from the administrator to discharge Fitzroy's $1.2 million debt to the Nauru Insurance Company, rebrand (with AFL approval who own the Fitzroy brand) to reflect a more Fitzroy identity in order to acquire a Melbourne support base. As a result the AFL gifted the newly rebranded Bears several million dollars and the ability to pre-select up to eight players from Fitzroy's 1996 list.

 

[Roaming Lou]

For the umpteenth time, Fitzroy is not dead. The Fitzroy Football Club still exists in its own right in Melbourne, playing out of its orgiinal home at the Brunswick Street Oval representing the suburb Fitzroy, which they ahve been doing for the past ten years. From 1997 - 2008, the club was effectively in recess with no on-field team. Fitzroy currently play against the University Football Club.

Last year was their first clash since 1914 since both competed in the VFL.

Incidentally I am a current member and shareholder of the Fitzroy Football Club (formed 1883) and have been since the club was in thE AFL.



There will be no "demerging" process. There was no merger between the Brisbane Bears and Fitzroy to "demerge". All the Brisbane Bears did in 1996 was acquire some Fitzroy assets from the administrator to discharge Fitzroy's $1.2 million debt to the Nauru Insurance Company, rebrand (with AFL approval who own the Fitzroy brand) to reflect a more Fitzroy identity in order to acquire a Melbourne support base. As a result the AFL gifted the newly rebranded Bears several million dollars and the ability to pre-select up to eight players from Fitzroy's 1996 list.

I am aware of the Fitzroy VAFA club, I agree that it is THE Fitzroy Football Club, but this is about the Ranks of VFL and AFL. On the AFL level because many of Fitzroy's assets went to Brisbane, that makes the Brisbane Lions the AFL successor to the Fritzroy Lions and the Brisbane Bears.
I agree with you that "dead" was a poor choice of words as Fitzroy from what I have seen is a thriving club with many good people behind it. But is it time for Fitzroy to make a move and join the VFL and return to a main stage. Or as a Fitzroy member would you just prefer to keep the Fitzroy AFL legacy as is?.

 

[Roylion]

I am aware of the Fitzroy VAFA club, I agree that it is THE Fitzroy Football Club, but this is about the Ranks of VFL and AFL. On the AFL level because many of Fitzroy's assets went to Brisbane, that makes the Brisbane Lions the AFL successor to the Fitzroy Lions and the Brisbane Bears.

AFL representative. Not "successor".

Hance you don't need to "de-merge" (which is the term you used) Fitzroy and Brisbane. The Brisbane Bears are the Brisbane Lions. Same club, just different branding. "Footscray" -> "Western Bulldogs", "Hawthorn Mayblooms" -> "Hawthorn Hawks". etc. etc. Branding of AFL clubs is an AFL matter as the AFL own all the intellectual property associated with the various clubs. The only thing Fitzroy Football Club actually owns (from the AFL days) is the 'FFC' logo that appeared on their jumper which they trade-marked a few years ago (No. 764288). That came about because of the AFL's failure to use it as a registered trade mark for a period of three years saw any claim cancelled on the grounds of non-use. The AFL also cannot legally prevent the Fitzroy Football Club from entering any football competition, apart from the AFL competition, on the basis that they own the 'Fitzroy brand'.

Fitzroy Football Club could be re-issued with an AFL licence tomorrow, if both the AFL and Fitzroy wished it to be so. The AFL doesn't wish it and Fitzroy doesn't have the funds.

I agree with you that "dead" was a poor choice of words as Fitzroy from what I have seen is a thriving club with many good people behind it. But is it time for Fitzroy to make a move and join the VFL and return to a main stage.

What with? It costs money to move from an amateur league to a semi-professional league such as the VFL.

It would be nice, but can't see it happening unless there was a very large injection of funds and significant gaining revenue streams to convert Fitzroy from an amateur outfit into a semi-professional / professional side. Finding a VFL standard ground to play home games is also a problem. In its current state the Brunswick Street Oval would be great as a training venue / HQ, but it cannot and would not be used as a VFL ground. As a VAFA ground it's fine.

The only involvement Fitzroy has had in the VFL after they were ejected from the AFL was in 1999-2000. In those years, the Fitzroy Football Club entered into a partnership with the Coburg Lions in the VFA (VFL) and the "Coburg-Fitzroy Lions" competed in the VFL. In 2001 Coburg was forced to enter into a partnership with Richmond and as such re-named themselves the "Coburg Tigers". Then Fitzroy entered the VAFA for the 2009 season and have been there ever since.

Or as a Fitzroy member would you just prefer to keep the Fitzroy AFL legacy as is?.

Fitzroy will never be back in the AFL in its own right. The Brisbane Lions represent / preserve the AFL Fitzroy legacy and they will continue to do so as long as it is in their interests and the AFL interests to do so.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

The Broncos are surely the most supported club in the nation.

Wouldn’t be close to Collingwood or Richmond

 

[NoobPie]

Wouldn’t be close to Collingwood or Richmond

Or the eagles ....

 

[PetterdHoisted]

AFL representative. Not "successor".

Hance you don't need to "de-merge" (which is the term you used) Fitzroy and Brisbane. The Brisbane Bears are the Brisbane Lions. Same club, just different branding. "Footscray" -> "Western Bulldogs", "Hawthorn Mayblooms" -> "Hawthorn Hawks". etc. etc. Branding of AFL clubs is an AFL matter as the AFL own all the intellectual property associated with the various clubs. The only thing Fitzroy Football Club actually owns (from the AFL days) is the 'FFC' logo that appeared on their jumper which they trade-marked a few years ago (No. 764288). That came about because of the AFL's failure to use it as a registered trade mark for a period of three years saw any claim cancelled on the grounds of non-use. The AFL also cannot legally prevent the Fitzroy Football Club from entering any football competition, apart from the AFL competition, on the basis that they own the 'Fitzroy brand'.

Fitzroy Football Club could be re-issued with an AFL licence tomorrow, if both the AFL and Fitzroy wished it to be so. The AFL doesn't wish it and Fitzroy doesn't have the funds.



What with? It costs money to move from an amateur league to a semi-professional league such as the VFL.

It would be nice, but can't see it happening unless there was a very large injection of funds and significant gaining revenue streams to convert Fitzroy from an amateur outfit into a semi-professional / professional side. Finding a VFL standard ground to play home games is also a problem. In its current state the Brunswick Street Oval would be great as a training venue / HQ, but it cannot and would not be used as a VFL ground. As a VAFA ground it's fine.

The only involvement Fitzroy has had in the VFL after they were ejected from the AFL was in 1999-2000. In those years, the Fitzroy Football Club entered into a partnership with the Coburg Lions in the VFA (VFL) and the "Coburg-Fitzroy Lions" competed in the VFL. In 2001 Coburg was forced to enter into a partnership with Richmond and as such re-named themselves the "Coburg Tigers". Then Fitzroy entered the VAFA for the 2009 season and have been there ever since.



Fitzroy will never be back in the AFL in its own right. The Brisbane Lions represent / preserve the AFL Fitzroy legacy and they will continue to do so as long as it is in their interests and the AFL interests to do so.

Hi RoyLion, are you aware of any amateur side associated with the old South Melb?

They certainly aren't playing out of Lakeside Oval these days.

 

[NoobPie]

Hi RoyLion, are you aware of any amateur side associated with the old South Melb?

They certainly aren't playing out of Lakeside Oval these days.

South Melbourne, the club, relocated to Sydney. This is very different to what happened with Fitzroy as roylion described

As it is, south Melbourne districts football club which had a historic relationship with smfc currently plays in the lower reaches of the vafa

Australian Football - South Melbourne Districts Football Club - Info

australianfootball.com

 

[kid_a]

The Broncos are surely the most supported club in the nation.

I lived in brissy for many a year(5 to be exact), trust me the Broncos, whilst easily being the biggest sports team in SEQ, dont command anywhere near the amount of interest in their home city as the Eagles in Perth or the Crows in Adelaide......nowhere near it.

 

[theyellowsash]

Bring them back to the vfl

 

[Roaming Lou]

AFL representative. Not "successor".

Hance you don't need to "de-merge" (which is the term you used) Fitzroy and Brisbane. The Brisbane Bears are the Brisbane Lions. Same club, just different re-branding. Branding of AFL clubs is an AFL matter as the AFL own all the intellectual property associated with the various clubs. The only thing Fitzroy Football Club actually owns (from the AFL days) is the 'FFC' logo which they trade-marked a few years ago.

Fitzroy Football Club could be re-issued with an AFL licence tomorrow, if both the AFL and Fitzroy wished it to be so. The AFL doesn't wish it and Fitzroy doesn't have the funds.



What with? It costs money to move from an amateur league to a semi-professional league such as the VFL.

It would be nice, but can't see it happening unless there was a very large injection of funds and significant gaining revenue streams to convert Fitzroy from an amateur outfit into a semi-professional / professional side. Finding a VFL standard ground to play home games is also a problem. In its current state the Brunswick Street Oval would be great as a training venue / HQ, but it cannot and would not be used as a VFL ground. As a VAFA ground it's fine.

The only involvement Fitzroy has had in the VFL after they were ejected from the AFL was in 1999-2000. In those years, the Fitzroy Football Club entered into a partnership with the Coburg Lions in the VFA (VFL) and the "Coburg-Fitzroy Lions" competed in the VFL. In 2001 Coburg was forced to enter into a partnership with Richmond and as such re-named themselves the "Coburg Tigers". Then Fitzroy entered the VAFA for the 2009 season and have been there ever since.



Fitzroy will never be back in the AFL in its own right. The Brisbane Lions represent / preserve the AFL Fitzroy legacy and they will continue to do so as long as it is in their interests and the AFL interests to do so.

Its odd, I agree with you on so many of your points yet at the same time disagree. The AFL at the state it is in will never allow Fitzroy or any new Victorian club for that matter. But in my opinion Fitzroy as a founding club and 99 years of competing in the VFL/AFL they deserve a spot, if you can really stand up and make a real case to the AFL I can be sure you will get the Victorian public on your side. As for the AFL it cannot stay the same forever, people are already starting to get sick of the AFL corporate, just look at the reaction to the rule changes and the "safety awareness officers" or whatever they are called at the of the season this year. As for a home VFL ground, Victoria Park is relatively close to Fitzroy and is used as a VFL venue, if you want to go back there, understandable if you want to go though collingwood, I wouldn't either.

 

[Professor Knowall]

... Fitzroy will never be back in the AFL in its own right. The Brisbane Lions represent / preserve the AFL Fitzroy legacy and they will continue to do so as long as it is in their interests and the AFL interests to do so.

Yep - nailed the bottom line. Any thoughts to the contrary might be romantic but totally fanciful. Fitzroy FC lives on in the VAFA and that's that.