Melbourne Stadium Issues

[Judd*1]

I think theres an agreement with the state government that there cant be another stadium over 50k because of angreement with Telstra Dome. But I think the contract is due to expire in a couple of years.

But the idea of another smaller stadium for melbourne teams playing interstate teams would be great, only problem is where would they put. CBD area, or more suburban?

 

[Zvim]

I think theres an agreement with the state government that there cant be another stadium over 50k because of angreement with Telstra Dome. But I think the contract is due to expire in a couple of years.

But the idea of another smaller stadium for melbourne teams playing interstate teams would be great, only problem is where would they put. CBD area, or more suburban?

I think most clubs would prefer a central location close to public transport.

 

[mattwinter]

I think theres an agreement with the state government that there cant be another stadium over 50k because of angreement with Telstra Dome. But I think the contract is due to expire in a couple of years.

But the idea of another smaller stadium for melbourne teams playing interstate teams would be great, only problem is where would they put. CBD area, or more suburban?

By the time any new stadium would be built the 10-year deal involving Telstra Dome will have expired.

I don't see the need for a new stadium, the current two stadiums are enough to support the 10 AFL teams, all that is needed is maybe a new deal with the stadiums so that the clubs get a bit more revenue.

I would only like to see a 3rd stadium built if it meant that clubs stuck to one stadium, eg. all their home games are at the same place. Essendon/Carlton/Kangaroos/Bulldogs could play at the Dome, Melbourne/Richmond/Collingwood at the MCG - maybe build a new stadium out east a little way for St Kilda/Hawthorn?

 

[Spartacus]

You would think that clubs with bigger bank (read: Collingwood) would (a) have the desire to and (b) have the wherewithal to build their own home ground where they could control (and rake in) revenue.

 

[Van Queen]

I agree. Always comes back to looking at English Premier League clubs who all own their own stadiums. Lets say at an average of $15-$20 per ticket at a new venue which houses about 30,000-35,000 seats, we're looking at matchday revenue of $700,000 or so, not taking into account other services provided at the ground.

The AFL seems to be prepared to fork out a $100 mil on the Kangas to move up to GC, but it would only take really a little bit more than that to have a NUMBER of Melbourne based clubs with a very very positive future at a new venue like this. As a result, the MCG and TD would really be forced to offer the bigger clubs better deals as well.

Maybe Im missing something though - but its really the only thing the game has been missing - club owned stadiums. And we dont even need 9 of them, just the 1 to help out the struggling clubs - and not only would it help, it would really really help.

 

[gPhonque]

Bah.... the lack of home grounds in Victoria is one of the things that makes the AFL a boring joke of a competition these days (along with the Final 8) and one of the reasons I don't follow it as much anymore.

The fact is, the only team in Victoria that actually has a home ground is Geelong. It's a completely stupid situation.

Bring back the good old days.... Windy Hill.... Vic Park... etc... When football felt like football..... when you almost felt fear heading into enemy territory for that one occasion every year to watch your team play in front of a rabid opposition crowd.... or when you gave hell to any opposition supporters who dared enter your territory. (all in fun of course!)

That's all gone these days. All you have left is 2 sterile boring stadiums shared by all the Vic teams.... no feeling of "home" or "away".... just different shit, same bucket, week after week after week.... until it gets to finals time where we let half the competition play anyway...

It's not football anymore.

It's television entertainment.

No different to Big Brother.

God I hate the direction our footy has gone over the past 15 years. And you should too!

 

[Spartacus]

Bah.... the lack of home grounds in Victoria is one of the things that makes the AFL a boring joke of a competition these days (along with the Final 8) and one of the reasons I don't follow it as much anymore.

The fact is, the only team in Victoria that actually has a home ground is Geelong. It's a completely stupid situation.

Bring back the good old days.... Windy Hill.... Vic Park... etc... When football felt like football..... when you almost felt fear heading into enemy territory for that one occasion every year to watch your team play in front of a rabid opposition crowd.... or when you gave hell to any opposition supporters who dared enter your territory. (all in fun of course!)

That's all gone these days. All you have left is 2 sterile boring stadiums shared by all the Vic teams.... no feeling of "home" or "away".... just different shit, same bucket, week after week after week.... until it gets to finals time where we let half the competition play anyway...

It's not football anymore.

It's television entertainment.

No different to Big Brother.

God I hate the direction our footy has gone over the past 15 years. And you should too!

Nicely done...spot on!

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

On MMM AD spoke that in the last meeting with the clubs recently the AFL and ALL 16 clubs made a commitment to address the issue of the stadium crisis in Melbourne.

This is a huge positive for Melbourne clubs as the lack of clean stadiums to 9 of the clubs has seen a number of clubs anywhere up to $5m worse off a year.

AD said they don't know exactly how to overcome the issue and recognise they are in the hole because of the MCG/TD agreements which they can't break, but it is the first time the AFL and all the clubs acknowledge that it is a major problem which must be addressed in the short-term. It will be a huge boon for the Melbourne clubs.

Some of these issues were highlighted in this article I posted when the 2007 Club Financial Review was released about 10 days ago.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=421330

 

[Guus_Hiddink]

One of the great blights on this sport is the fact that teams dont have their own stadiums, thus ridding them of their home ground advantage, aswell as removing all tradition and history away from the spotlight and confining it to training only. Of course as we know the AFL couldnt give two stuffs about tradition so they wont do anything about this.

 

[Father Jack]

One of the great blights on this sport is the fact that teams dont have their own stadiums, thus ridding them of their home ground advantage, aswell as removing all tradition and history away from the spotlight and confining it to training only. Of course as we know the AFL couldnt give two stuffs about tradition so they wont do anything about this.

If you want suburban grounds then follow a suburban comp.

 

[Spartacus]

I think one of the great tragedies of the "modern" era of AFL football is that Carlton couldn't afford to keep Optus Oval (or whatever they call it now) in playing shape as a home ground. That should have been a great red flag to those in power at AFL House that the game in Victoria was in a poor state and needed help. Unfortunately, that help has come two years too late.

 

[Zvim]

Some of these issues were highlighted in this article I posted when the 2007 Club Financial Review was released about 10 days ago.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=421330

Yeah, the blueprint for success is now having a stadium that is suitable to your supporter base and there isn't a small stadium in Melbourne suitable for the smaller clubs.

However, there is still a massive difference between a clean stadium and using a third-party stadium. You can fill out TD but much of the more profitable areas like corporate, advertising, catering and sponsorship is mostly siphoned off by the third parties.

It is where Geelong have been making a significant chunk of their cash and why the new upgrades to Skilled are designed around the increase in corporate boxes at the stadium. The last improvement they made didn't really boost the capacity by much, but added a fair few corporate boxes.

I don't think it is economically feasible to build 7 new stadiums, but one joint stadium that is clean and suitable for the 35k or lower crowd would solve most of the problems here. In time TD will also pass into AFL hands and we should also have a stadium suitable for the larger clubs.

 

[wallyt99]

Yep we Definitely need 1 or 2 new stadiums in Melbourne. I say put one in the inner west and one in the inner east.

Hmmmm.... how about one near princess park...and one near waverly!

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Yeah, the blueprint for success is now having a stadium that is suitable to your supporter base and there isn't a small stadium in Melbourne suitable for the smaller clubs.

However, there is still a massive difference between a clean stadium and using a third-party stadium. You can fill out TD but much of the more profitable areas like corporate, advertising, catering and sponsorship is mostly siphoned off by the third parties.

It is where Geelong have been making a significant chunk of their cash and why the new upgrades to Skilled are designed around the increase in corporate boxes at the stadium. The last improvement they made didn't really boost the capacity by much, but added a fair few corporate boxes.

I don't think it is economically feasible to build 7 new stadiums, but one joint stadium that is clean and suitable for the 35k or lower crowd would solve most of the problems here. In time TD will also pass into AFL hands and we should also have a stadium suitable for the larger clubs.

At an average construction cost of about $5,000 to $10,000 per seat depending on how fancy you want a small stadium it isn't going to be cheap and who is going to pay for it??

Also the fact that there are long term contacts in place that guarantee 40+ games a year each at both the MCG and TD, doesn't leave enough games to be played at any new stadium to make it profitable therefore do you really solve the problem?

Games outside Melbourne, 6 non Vic sides is 6 x 11 home games + 8 in Geelong = 74 out of 176 games played outside Melbourne. Then you have the contracted games in Tassie, Darwin, Canberra and GC and you getting down to between 12 to 18 games that could be scheduled at a new ground given the current contracts.

 

[pazza]

Reading this week's Inside Football, David "Swan" McKay reckons that with the work to be done at Carlotn, that it could return as a venue.

 

[Professor Knowall]

Look at Collingwood vs Fremantle, probably lucky to crack 30k, they will be lucky to make much cash from this game. A stadium of around 35k would even be ideal for teams like Collingwood and Essendon when playing interstate teams. Pies will be lucky to make $100k today, could make $500k just by having a more appropriate stadium. Add in reserved seating, pre-booking, etc for a smaller stadium and that is more cash for the club plus you would get a much better atmosphere at a smaller ground that is packed than a half filled big stadi...um.

Typical of the totally ignorant posts on this thread (the ones saying that the AFL are looking at a new Melbourne stadium). There were over 45,000 to watch Collingwood vs Fremantle. This really stupid idea would've locked out about 10,000 supporters!

The issue, as discussed by Vlad on 3AW today isn't one little bit about a new boutique stadium in Melbourne. That won't happen - no chance at all.

What it is about is getting better stadium tenency deals at Docklands and/or MCG for clubs like Footscray, Melbourne, Hawthorn, Melbourne, Richmond and North. Nothing more, nothing less.

So stop wasting time carrying on about a fantasy new stadium, and get this back to reality.

 

[Zvim]

Typical of the totally ignorant posts on this thread (the ones saying that the AFL are looking at a new Melbourne stadium). There were over 45,000 to watch Collingwood vs Fremantle. This really stupid idea would've locked out about 10,000 supporters!

The issue, as discussed by Vlad on 3AW today isn't one little bit about a new boutique stadium in Melbourne. That won't happen - no chance at all.

What it is about is getting better stadium tenency deals at Docklands and/or MCG for clubs like Footscray, Melbourne, Hawthorn, Melbourne, Richmond and North. Nothing more, nothing less.

So stop wasting time carrying on about a fantasy new stadium, and get this back to reality.

Well, i got the crowd estimate from MMM who said about 30k, still, you would make less from that game than Geelong would with 25k at Skilled, which is the crux of the problem.

AFL can't get better deals from the MCC/TD because they have iron clad contracts.

The comment about the stadium was an option JB talked about on MMM, not my idea.

 

[Rob]

I think one of the great tragedies of the "modern" era of AFL football is that Carlton couldn't afford to keep Optus Oval (or whatever they call it now) in playing shape as a home ground. That should have been a great red flag to those in power at AFL House that the game in Victoria was in a poor state and needed help. Unfortunately, that help has come two years too late.

Don't blame the AFL, blame the public who didn't turn out in the same numbers at OO as they do at the MCG or TD.

You all talk about how hard done by you are compared to interstate clubs, but would you really like to be paying twice as much playing out of 3rd rate stadiums? Victorians simply won't cop paying $40 for a seat at some cheap ass stadium. They proved that with the Legends stand which was built on this concept, and was rarely more than half full.

And could someone actually post the general jist of these stadium deals that are so bad?

 

[Zvim]

Don't blame the AFL, blame the public who didn't turn out in the same numbers at OO as they do at the MCG or TD.

You all talk about how hard done by you are compared to interstate clubs, but would you really like to be paying twice as much playing out of 3rd rate stadiums? Victorians simply won't cop paying $40 for a seat at some cheap ass stadium. They proved that with the Legends stand which was built on this concept, and was rarely more than half full.

There is no need to play at a cheap ass stadium when the two teams playing there are turning over in excess of $50m per annum.

Optus Oval was doomed to failure ONLY because of the people running the CFC at the time. The three stooges going from Elliot just bumbled through a 5-10 year period, they had the chance to make OO the third Melbourne stadium but greed, arrogance and ineptitude sunk their plans for their home ground.

Football generates billions of dollars of business activity in Melbourne, I think in the greater scheme of things ensuring we have quality stadiums here suitable for the clubs is not asking too much.

I don't think we need to rip off the supporters, but I think there is growing sales in reserved seating and social club packages which return more to the clubs than a standard membership package. I think the public here is starting to realise it is important to put more into our clubs.

 

[Rob]

There is no need to play at a cheap ass stadium when the two teams playing there are turning over in excess of $50m per annum.

Optus Oval was doomed to failure ONLY because of the people running the CFC at the time. The three stooges going from Elliot just bumbled through a 5-10 year period, they had the chance to make OO the third Melbourne stadium but greed, arrogance and ineptitude sunk their plans for their home ground.

And the fact that no-one liked the place. It was small and expensive. The crowds drawn by Carlton were generally ordinary, and the crowds drawn by other teams were abominable.

What on earth makes you think that another small, expensive stadium nowhere near the quality of the MCG and TD will be filled? You think your fans, for instance, are going to cop paying $300+ for a reserved seat at a poor cousin venue? I'm sure some will, but you need *all* of them to.

 

[Port01]

And the fact that no-one liked the place. It was small and expensive. The crowds drawn by Carlton were generally ordinary, and the crowds drawn by other teams were abominable.

What on earth makes you think that another small, expensive stadium nowhere near the quality of the MCG and TD will be filled? You think your fans, for instance, are going to cop paying $300+ for a reserved seat at a poor cousin venue? I'm sure some will, but you need *all* of them to.

Notwithstanding that as soon as a game drawn there becomes an unexpected blockbuster (say two top teams), they will be screaming to get it moved to a bigger stadium. I can imagine it now North v West Coast for top spot in rd 22 and half the ground is reserved for AFL members, and another third for corporates.

 

[serenityNow]

Look at Collingwood vs Fremantle, probably lucky to crack 30k, they will be lucky to make much cash from this game. A stadium of around 35k would even be ideal for teams like Collingwood and Essendon when playing interstate teams. Pies will be lucky to make $100k today, could make $500k just by having a more appropriate stadium. Add in reserved seating, pre-booking, etc for a smaller stadium and that is more cash for the club plus you would get a much better atmosphere at a smaller ground that is packed than a half filled big stadium.

45,000+ today.

Its all a pipe dream..........Collingwood,Carlton,Essendon,Hawthorn are all approaching 40,000 members NOW in 10 years when you say this stadium will be ready that figure will be much more. Richmond wont leave the G.

The only two sides that it would accomodate are the Roos and the Dogs...............But i dont see where these two clubs are going to find 2.5 mil a year each to fund it when they both barely make profits now.Not to mention the facilities in comparison to the dome and G it wont be anywhere near as good or as high tech or fan freindly.

Why do you think Collingwood,Carlton,Essendon,Hawthorn all made 3mil+ profits last year.........because they all average over 40k people to home games.
Its a hard pill to swallow for some.......but the fact is the smaller Vic clubs will never compete with the bigger clubs and in time the game will consume melbourne so much that clubs will die because money will be so hard to generate...........take the AFL's handouts away NOW and a couple would go.

 

[Woodpecker Warrior]

Maybe clubs shouldn't be forced into paying 97 % of the Salary Cap?

Maybe clubs don't really need 6 assistant coaches?

Maybe clubs would like to return the dividends back to the AFL they receive each year?

Maybe the 10 Victorian clubs should have a think, before bathing in the TV Money they happily take each year.

Maybe Geelong have got it right with representing their area and foregoing a roof over their stadium to stop their players from getting their hair product all messed up as well as not selling their history for the $$$$ ?

Maybe football is really about clubs representing communities and members rather than clubs becoming corporations?

 

[foxdog50]

Is there really anything wrong with Optus Oval??????

 

[Zvim]

45,000+ today.

Its all a pipe dream..........Collingwood,Carlton,Essendon,Hawthorn are all approaching 40,000 members NOW in 10 years when you say this stadium will be ready that figure will be much more. Richmond wont leave the G.

The only two sides that it would accomodate are the Roos and the Dogs...............But i dont see where these two clubs are going to find 2.5 mil a year each to fund it when they both barely make profits now.

45k at the MCG and how many were MCC or AFL members? How much does Collingwood benefit from those members?

Look at the figures in the various articles, Collingwood and Essendon are slipping further behind the interstate clubs, if you think it is all rosey for them then you are thinking wrong. It is why clubs like Carlton, Collingwood and Essendon are also in favour of resolving this issue.

I'd be ecstatic if we were the only one who got off our arse and did something about it, anyone that fails to address this issue will be left behind, it is as simple as that. You will be at an extreme disadvantage if you are not pulling $5m+ from your home and away games.