Melbourne vs Melbourne Aka the battle from within

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rhaz

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Jun 30, 2008
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Someone said on another thread we traded King for May, it really didnt happen like that did it? That King bloke looked awesome yesterday
Sorta, but not exactly.

Pick 6 started at Fremantle. It was traded to Port, then to Brisbane, then eventually back to Fremantle. We eventually traded Hogan & Pick 65 to Fremantle in return for Pick 6 and Pick 23. We then traded Pick 6 to Gold Coast for May & Kolodjashnij.

Gold Coast used Pick 6 on Ben King. We used Pick 23 on Tom Sparrow. Fremantle didn't use Pick 65.

If we consider a world where we kept Pick 6...

- We had just been knocked out of the finals by West Coast, a game where, amongst many problems, our defense was exposed by Kennedy and Darling. Another key defender was a clear need
- Tom McDonald had been a star that year, and Weideman had just played two really good finals against Geelong and Hawthorn. It looked like we were set for 2019. Our KPF depth wasn't great, but we could score heavily without it.

Would we have taken King even if we had Pick 6? I'm doubtful.
 
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A11dAtP0w3R

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From the highlights (given, it's not the complete game) ive got no idea how Mitch Brown doesn't get a game off the back of that. If we are genuinely serious and wanting to pick the our best side each week, I'd expect to see his name as an inclusion this week.

He looks like someone who actually knows how to play full forward, unlike the guys we've been playing recently.

Let's do a Wallsy and play TMac at centre half forward and "throw him in the ruck" ... No point being scared about him getting injured atm. Plonk Mitch at FF for the entire game.
 

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Toump Ass

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Sorta, but not exactly.

Pick 6 started at Fremantle. It was traded to Port, then to Brisbane, then eventually back to Fremantle. We eventually traded Hogan & Pick 65 to Fremantle in return for Pick 6 and Pick 23. We then traded Pick 6 to Gold Coast for May & Kolodjashnij.
IMO that felt like a sh*t bit of trading and recruiting at the time.

Defence was poor in the prelim but we had Jake Lever on the sidelines who we'd spent 2 first round draft picks on, we then overpaid for another defender with both salary/picks (May) while letting players go for far below value (Hogan).

A midfielder was as much a need as a defender, given we'd taken on the Eagles with Dom Tyson in the side (who we traded out). I'd have preferred we went after Lynch/ Neale/ even Dylan Shiel/ Chud Wingehard.

I like Stevie May, and I'd like him more if he got suspended a bit more often, but a Top 10 pick should get you a bloody good player.
 
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dazzledavey36

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Sorta, but not exactly.

Pick 6 started at Fremantle. It was traded to Port, then to Brisbane, then eventually back to Fremantle. We eventually traded Hogan & Pick 65 to Fremantle in return for Pick 6 and Pick 23. We then traded Pick 6 to Gold Coast for May & Kolodjashnij.

Gold Coast used Pick 6 on Ben King. We used Pick 23 on Tom Sparrow. Fremantle didn't use Pick 65.

If we consider a world where we kept Pick 6...

- We had just been knocked out of the finals by West Coast, a game where, amongst many problems, our defense was exposed by Kennedy and Darling. Another key defender was a clear need
- Tom McDonald had been a star that year, and Weideman had just played two really good finals against Geelong and Hawthorn. It looked like we were set for 2019. Our KPF depth wasn't great, but we could score heavily without it.

Would we have taken King even if we had Pick 6? I'm doubtful.
We would have most likely selected Zac Butters. On the night of the draft, Jason Taylor tried to trade back into the first round for one specific target and that was Butters himself.
 

Tulip

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Sorta, but not exactly.

Pick 6 started at Fremantle. It was traded to Port, then to Brisbane, then eventually back to Fremantle. We eventually traded Hogan & Pick 65 to Fremantle in return for Pick 6 and Pick 23. We then traded Pick 6 to Gold Coast for May & Kolodjashnij.

Gold Coast used Pick 6 on Ben King. We used Pick 23 on Tom Sparrow. Fremantle didn't use Pick 65.

If we consider a world where we kept Pick 6...

- We had just been knocked out of the finals by West Coast, a game where, amongst many problems, our defense was exposed by Kennedy and Darling. Another key defender was a clear need
- Tom McDonald had been a star that year, and Weideman had just played two really good finals against Geelong and Hawthorn. It looked like we were set for 2019. Our KPF depth wasn't great, but we could score heavily without it.

Would we have taken King even if we had Pick 6? I'm doubtful.
Have to disagree. King was the clear standout tall after his brother and Lukosius. He was actually drafted as a swingman. The only real question is whether Goody would have swung him forward like Dew has done.
 

Tulip

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Does anyone rate Jason Taylor?

His biggest achievement is reaching for Oliver early and he only did that because Roos was campaigning for him
He's not had much to work with since then until this year. Lost his second round picks in 14 and 15 to Melk and Hibberd as a starting point.

2013: Salem at 9 was a good pick, so was Hunt at 50-something and Harmes in the RD, JKH at 40 a bust.
2014: Trac and Gus were consensus picks. Both are good players, but Trac is going up in value and Gus is going down. ANB was reasonable value at 40, AVB a great rookie.
2015: Oliver the best player from that draft class. Weid looks like he won't make it which is shocking given the two picks after him are superior key forwards.
2016: Hannan at 46 was good value given that was our first pick in 2016.
2017: Fritsch at 31: gun. Spargo at 28: spanner. Petty at 37: wait and see.

List staff have undermined him by trading away his good picks in 2017 and 2018. Pickett at 12 already looks like the right kind of reach. Jackson at 3 is a wait and see/neck on the line kind of pick but Anderson was a gift to GC and there was a clear top two pick.

Overall, he's been really good.
 

Toump Ass

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Bit rich banging on about the May trade, every man and his dog was shitting on frost and Omac for being raped in 2018, club got the best key defender on the market at the time and so far it hasn't worked out but good on the club for trying.
We had a hole where our defence was, but we also had a massive, gaping trench where TALENT was supposed to be. Our midfield group in the prelim: harmes, viney, jones (old), dom tyson (traded out for peanuts), oliver (very good, but with a bunch of flaws), brayshaw, avb.

Neale, that Hill guy, Shiel would have complemented that massively IMO.

(and FWIW I loved watching the big eared science experiment gone wrong and was genuinely surprised the club let him go so easily).
 
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Toump Ass

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And while I'm here ranting about trading: Getting players in who fit a need is nice but what's even better is getting good players who fit a need.

Tomlinson/ Langdon may have been the best available runner, May was the best available key defender, sure, but if you keep getting average players in you're going to end up with an average team.

Unless of course you start overpaying for the average players in which case you're going to end up with a bunch of ******* potatoes.
 

TheBoss

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He's not had much to work with since then until this year. Lost his second round picks in 14 and 15 to Melk and Hibberd as a starting point.

2013: Salem at 9 was a good pick, so was Hunt at 50-something and Harmes in the RD, JKH at 40 a bust.
2014: Trac and Gus were consensus picks. Both are good players, but Trac is going up in value and Gus is going down. ANB was reasonable value at 40, AVB a great rookie.
2015: Oliver the best player from that draft class. Weid looks like he won't make it which is shocking given the two picks after him are superior key forwards.
2016: Hannan at 46 was good value given that was our first pick in 2016.
2017: Fritsch at 31: gun. Spargo at 28: spanner. Petty at 37: wait and see.

List staff have undermined him by trading away his good picks in 2017 and 2018. Pickett at 12 already looks like the right kind of reach. Jackson at 3 is a wait and see/neck on the line kind of pick but Anderson was a gift to GC and there was a clear top two pick.

Overall, he's been really good.
2013: trades down from Josh Kelly. Passes on Cripps, Sicily and Boner Brown

2014: agree, McCartin, Petracca and Brayshaw were consensus top 3 picks. Lucky Saints didn't pick Petracca.

2015: Oliver a great pick. Only got a look because Roos pushed hard after watching u18 footage

Weideman is looking like a bust.

2016: Needed small forwards and Willie Rioli was still on the board

2017: Spargo and Petty will be club legends at Casey. Anything after 20 is a bit of a lucky dip anyway. Overpaid for Lever in $$$ and assets.

2018: let's Hogan go home for mainly compassionate reasons. I'm a Jesse stan so will always be salty he isn't in MFC colours.

Get Pick 6 and trade for May and Koladjasjdjfjdjsjsjdjy. Could have got May for free if waited 12 months.

Could have picked Ben King at 6. Looks to be a gun.

2019: I do not like rating draft picks after 3 rounds. I understand why they took Jackson but he gives me Jack Watts vibes.

Looking to see how Pickett v Weightman argument pans out in a few years.

Concern is both players were bolters who shot up draft boards late; and we took both of them. Real boom or bust opportunity.

Rivers had a fantastic debut.
 

Demon bhoy

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Bit rich banging on about the May trade, every man and his dog was shitting on frost and Omac for being raped in 2018, club got the best key defender on the market at the time and so far it hasn't worked out but good on the club for trying.
That’s setting a very low bar, May was the best available but his playing record before and since is mediocre, no problem with recruiting him but I’ll always insist the price paid was massive overs for his age and what he is as a player, trying is great but the ramifications for failing are huge as we are starting to see
 

HANDSOLO

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2013: trades down from Josh Kelly. Passes on Cripps, Sicily and Boner Brown

2014: agree, McCartin, Petracca and Brayshaw were consensus top 3 picks. Lucky Saints didn't pick Petracca.

2015: Oliver a great pick. Only got a look because Roos pushed hard after watching u18 footage

Weideman is looking like a bust.

2016: Needed small forwards and Willie Rioli was still on the board

2017: Spargo and Petty will be club legends at Casey. Anything after 20 is a bit of a lucky dip anyway. Overpaid for Lever in $$$ and assets.

2018: let's Hogan go home for mainly compassionate reasons. I'm a Jesse stan so will always be salty he isn't in MFC colours.

Get Pick 6 and trade for May and Koladjasjdjfjdjsjsjdjy. Could have got May for free if waited 12 months.

Could have picked Ben King at 6. Looks to be a gun.

2019: I do not like rating draft picks after 3 rounds. I understand why they took Jackson but he gives me Jack Watts vibes.

Looking to see how Pickett v Weightman argument pans out in a few years.

Concern is both players were bolters who shot up draft boards late; and we took both of them. Real boom or bust opportunity.

Rivers had a fantastic debut.
if Jackson gets close to jack watts I’ll be very happy!
 

Topkent

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That’s setting a very low bar, May was the best available but his playing record before and since is mediocre, no problem with recruiting him but I’ll always insist the price paid was massive overs for his age and what he is as a player, trying is great but the ramifications for failing are huge as we are starting to see
My only point on this ever is, if the club thought we were right there for a premiership after 2018 and they thought a better key defender could help then I'll never be mad that they pulled the trigger. If May plays in a premiership side for us no one gives a flying fu** about the price, however now that we've done what Melbourne does best in being shithouse then every deal looks sh*t because the grass is always greener on the draft pick side.
 

Toump Ass

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My only point on this ever is, if the club thought we were right there for a premiership after 2018 and they thought a better key defender could help then I'll never be mad that they pulled the trigger.
I respect where you're coming from, but what if the club thought we were right for a premiership but were completely wrong? We traded out a future first after a season where we won only two games by more than a kick, club still sees us in contention clearly but I'm not sure many fans would agree.

There were rumours last year we were facing salary cap pressure... but we've only got one elite player :drunk: :drunk: :drunk:... there's some serious questions re: list management/recruitment imo.

2019: I do not like rating draft picks after 3 rounds. I understand why they took Jackson but he gives me Jack Watts vibes.
Took a gamble on Bennell, and even if it's a bust I'm stoked we did it.
 
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Tulip

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2013: trades down from Josh Kelly. Passes on Cripps, Sicily and Boner Brown

2014: agree, McCartin, Petracca and Brayshaw were consensus top 3 picks. Lucky Saints didn't pick Petracca.

2015: Oliver a great pick. Only got a look because Roos pushed hard after watching u18 footage

Weideman is looking like a bust.

2016: Needed small forwards and Willie Rioli was still on the board

2017: Spargo and Petty will be club legends at Casey. Anything after 20 is a bit of a lucky dip anyway. Overpaid for Lever in $$$ and assets.

2018: let's Hogan go home for mainly compassionate reasons. I'm a Jesse stan so will always be salty he isn't in MFC colours.

Get Pick 6 and trade for May and Koladjasjdjfjdjsjsjdjy. Could have got May for free if waited 12 months.

Could have picked Ben King at 6. Looks to be a gun.

2019: I do not like rating draft picks after 3 rounds. I understand why they took Jackson but he gives me Jack Watts vibes.

Looking to see how Pickett v Weightman argument pans out in a few years.

Concern is both players were bolters who shot up draft boards late; and we took both of them. Real boom or bust opportunity.

Rivers had a fantastic debut.
Ok but you don't seem to realise that Taylor isn't the list manager. Trading isn't his job. He just works with the picks he's given. You're right to think we trade like sh*t and overpay for literally everyone, but that isn't Taylor's fault.
 

TheBoss

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Ok but you don't seem to realise that Taylor isn't the list manager. Trading isn't his job. He just works with the picks he's given. You're right to think we trade like sh*t and overpay for literally everyone, but that isn't Taylor's fault.
Is it though?

I do not buy that Taylor has zero input before a pick is traded.

We traded our 2020 pick at his insistence to get an extra 2019 1st.

It's his job to assess to draft pools. Why wouldn't he be consulted before a pick goes in or out?
 

Tulip

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Is it though?

I do not buy that Taylor has zero input before a pick is traded.

We traded our 2020 pick at his insistence to get an extra 2019 1st.

It's his job to assess to draft pools. Why wouldn't he be consulted before a pick goes in or out?
Taylor drafts based on the list profile.

The list manager says 'we need an experienced KPD' and trades the picks for May.

The list manager says 'we need a small forward to develop' and Taylor says 'there's two good ones that will be available between 10-20 this year if you don't want to wait, get me a second pick and I'll get one of them but pick 3 is too high'.
 

TheBoss

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Taylor drafts based on the list profile.

The list manager says 'we need an experienced KPD' and trades the picks for May.

The list manager says 'we need a small forward to develop' and Taylor says 'there's two good ones that will be available between 10-20 this year if you don't want to wait, get me a second pick and I'll get one of them but pick 3 is too high'.
Explain the Sparrow selection 😜
 

Toump Ass

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Yeah I assumed recruitment/trading went hand-in-hand, no point recruiting a gun full forward and trading for one in the same year.

WTF would i know about running a football club tho.

Edit: probably about as much as anyone who worked at Melbourne for the last 20 years.
 

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