Melbourne vs Melbourne Aka the battle from within

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Grimesy87

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May 22, 2018
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What a joke , blaming Taylor for missing on the likes of a Fyfe or Cripps , almost as comical as suggesting he decides if we trade picks. Lol. Thats not how it works.
That poster is the biggest melb nuffie on this board, let it go. You'll do your own head in trying to have a discussion.

Personally think our list changed post 2018 for the worse when we turned Bugg, Kent, Tyson and aging Vince and Pederson into Wagner, kolodjashij and a few late picks like bedford/Nietzsche for example. Our depth players who on their day were still handy, went from those mentioned above to Wagner x2, Smith, Maynard, Baker hire etc. Surely someone at the club looked at the third list lodgement and thought "sh*t, we've messed up". The terrific form drop off of top players for various reasons last year obviously encouraged this drop off.

Post 2020 any of the following players could be moved on and I would respectfully agree with it- O McDonald
Baker
Jones
Hibberd
Spargo
KK
ANB
Hore
Wagner x2
Joel Smith
Hunt

Trouble is that list combined would net about pick 95. The other aspect is the players listed there are not players that cost us a lot. Hibberd cost pick 28 odd, Spargo 30 odd, ANB, Hunt and Baker in the late 30s, McDonald 50s etc..

What it shows is when your top players are either playing like trash for whatever reason ( may McDonald Brayshaw) or perennially injured and giving nothing onfield ( Vandenberg weideman lever) then it doesn't matter how well your depth goes, you're going to battle.

Personally I'm going to hold off rubbishing anyone until we play another 5 or 6 games, as having 40 odd fit and firing now leaves us no excuses/reasoning (like last year). If we are 2-6 in a few weeks time then Goodwin, Taylor, Mahoney, pert, bartlett, Jones, weideman, McDonald , Brayshaw and the statues out the front of the MCG can all go and Tulip can head coach.

Lockdown has done him some favours, his posts are as measured and reasonable this week as they've ever been in my 4 years on BF
 

Crusty Demon

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That poster is the biggest melb nuffie on this board, let it go. You'll do your own head in trying to have a discussion.

Personally think our list changed post 2018 for the worse when we turned Bugg, Kent, Tyson and aging Vince and Pederson into Wagner, kolodjashij and a few late picks like bedford/Nietzsche for example. Our depth players who on their day were still handy, went from those mentioned above to Wagner x2, Smith, Maynard, Baker hire etc. Surely someone at the club looked at the third list lodgement and thought "sh*t, we've messed up". The terrific form drop off of top players for various reasons last year obviously encouraged this drop off.

Post 2020 any of the following players could be moved on and I would respectfully agree with it- O McDonald
Baker
Jones
Hibberd
Spargo
KK
ANB
Hore
Wagner x2
Joel Smith
Hunt

Trouble is that list combined would net about pick 95. The other aspect is the players listed there are not players that cost us a lot. Hibberd cost pick 28 odd, Spargo 30 odd, ANB, Hunt and Baker in the late 30s, McDonald 50s etc..

What it shows is when your top players are either playing like trash for whatever reason ( may McDonald Brayshaw) or perennially injured and giving nothing onfield ( Vandenberg weideman lever) then it doesn't matter how well your depth goes, you're going to battle.

Personally I'm going to hold off rubbishing anyone until we play another 5 or 6 games, as having 40 odd fit and firing now leaves us no excuses/reasoning (like last year). If we are 2-6 in a few weeks time then Goodwin, Taylor, Mahoney, pert, bartlett, Jones, weideman, McDonald , Brayshaw and the statues out the front of the MCG can all go and Tulip can head coach.

Lockdown has done him some favours, his posts are as measured and reasonable this week as they've ever been in my 4 years on BF
Harsh on Hore IMO. Looks a solid player IMO. At least a handy back up to Jetta if he goes down.

Hunt is surely at least handy depth if not best 22(just). Same with ANB.

Agree on Jones, however a positive role on the forward flank is not beyond the realms of possibility. He shouldn't be allowed near the midfield group again.

Spargo looks too small, however is unfortunately one of our better kicks in the front half. Not sure he has enough tricks to make it best 22, but again handy depth.

Hibberd is done. KK is done.

Baker I just don't see it either.

OMacDonald should have been let go instead of Frost IMO. But he literally is the only tall defender depth we have. So we won't be axing him anytime soon.

Joel Smith is an interesting one. Goody seems to want him playing as a defender, but IMO he could become a handy third tall option in the F50. Has that wiry Jack Darling look about him. Looked ok pre season 2019 in the fornt half before getting injured. I'd keep for depth or to explore the F50 option.
 
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Grimesy87

All Australian
May 22, 2018
874
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AFL Club
Melbourne
Harsh on Hore IMO. Looks a solid player IMO. At least a handy back up to Jetta if he goes down.

Hunt is surely at least handy depth if not best 22(just). Same with ANB.

Agree on Jones, however a positive role on the forward flank is not beyond the realms of possibility. He shouldn't be allowed near the midfield group again.

Spargo looks too small, however is unfortunately one of our better kicks in the front half. Not sure he has enough tricks to make it best 22, but again handy depth.

Hibberd is done. KK is done.

Baker I just don't see it either.

OMacDonald should have been let go instead of Frost IMO. But he literally is the only tall defender depth we have. So we won't be axing him anytime soon.

Joel Smith is an interesting one. Goody seems to want him playing as a defender, but IMO he could become a handy third tall option in the F50. Has that wiry Jack Darling look about him. Looked ok pre season 2019 in the fornt half before getting injured. I'd keep for depth or to explore the F50 option.
Yeah look you're probably right to Hore and Hunt, but they'll forever be limited players who will only ever have cameo roles, or occasional bursts that make you think they just need a decent preseason...

It's just frustrating how it seems like we made such an effort to overhaul out list over past 6 years, yet were still saying on this forum we could move on 12 players or more and conceivably not bat an eye lid.
 

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schmuttt

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Yeah look you're probably right to Hore and Hunt, but they'll forever be limited players who will only ever have cameo roles, or occasional bursts that make you think they just need a decent preseason...

It's just frustrating how it seems like we made such an effort to overhaul out list over past 6 years, yet were still saying on this forum we could move on 12 players or more and conceivably not bat an eye lid.
The price of effectively trading our bottom 8-10 players for another bottom 8-10 players each offseason. I reckon we genuinely have a top 8 list (Higher if TMac or Weid actually get a kick consistently) but you're not wrong about the crap that is still on it.
 

jhong

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Apr 18, 2011
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We could always recruit players and play them in the position they played in when we recruited them . I know , radical suggestion. Any discussion on recruiting should also examine player development and the game plan and whether the players recruited fit the plan . What the fu** is our "Brand" Atm it appears to be "when then the going gets tough , we fold" Stop talking about "Brand" , stop talking , just get out there and ******* do something . I have seen less talented demon teams at least not take the crap you lot take. I am not asking you to be cowards and belt someone from behind , (that's rugby) , just ******* stand up and not take sh*t . We used to be a big club, not any more . Want to know why ?. Look in the mirror. We look to have a team that thinks 2018 is just going to turn up again, the reality seems to 2019 is where we are at . Prove me wrong you pussies. I don't speak for the oldies , but we saw our team win flags ( yeah the VFL) , about time you lot did something to bring us back to being something .
 

A11dAtP0w3R

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Harsh on Hore IMO. Looks a solid player IMO. At least a handy back up to Jetta if he goes down.

Hunt is surely at least handy depth if not best 22(just). Same with ANB.

Agree on Jones, however a positive role on the forward flank is not beyond the realms of possibility. He shouldn't be allowed near the midfield group again.

Spargo looks too small, however is unfortunately one of our better kicks in the front half. Not sure he has enough tricks to make it best 22, but again handy depth.

Hibberd is done. KK is done.

Baker I just don't see it either.

OMacDonald should have been let go instead of Frost IMO. But he literally is the only tall defender depth we have. So we won't be axing him anytime soon.

Joel Smith is an interesting one. Goody seems to want him playing as a defender, but IMO he could become a handy third tall option in the F50. Has that wiry Jack Darling look about him. Looked ok pre season 2019 in the fornt half before getting injured. I'd keep for depth or to explore the F50 option.
Agree with you on Hore, I rubbished him early on but hes a best 22 player imo.

I also agree we should have kept Frost instead of OMac, the problem being tho, no one was touching that disaster of a contract with a 10 foot pole. We would have had to eat 80% of it while he was playing for someone else. Not something a team who is "apparently" chasing premierships should ever do.
 

A11dAtP0w3R

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As I mentioned last week , we are using Hunt completely wrong, if someone told me he'd be playing in our forward line only 3 years ago I would have laughed, his trade value would have been really good after the 2017 season, could have got something really nice in return, but that opportunity is long gone.
 

A11dAtP0w3R

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Oct 18, 2013
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We could always recruit players and play them in the position they played in when we recruited them . I know , radical suggestion. Any discussion on recruiting should also examine player development and the game plan and whether the players recruited fit the plan . What the fu** is our "Brand" Atm it appears to be "when then the going gets tough , we fold" Stop talking about "Brand" , stop talking , just get out there and ******* do something . I have seen less talented demon teams at least not take the crap you lot take. I am not asking you to be cowards and belt someone from behind , (that's rugby) , just ******* stand up and not take sh*t . We used to be a big club, not any more . Want to know why ?. Look in the mirror. We look to have a team that thinks 2018 is just going to turn up again, the reality seems to 2019 is where we are at . Prove me wrong you pussies. I don't speak for the oldies , but we saw our team win flags ( yeah the VFL) , about time you lot did something to bring us back to being something .
I'll give Goody some credit, he passed his media training with flying colours, someone is critical of the team what do you refer to? "Our brand" ....someone applauds our team what do you refer to? "Our brand".... If you keep saying it the press and supporters actually start to believe we have a brand.

Our "brand" has been reactionary , in 2018 we played a brand, in 2019 we tried to play the same brand but became predictable and easy to game plan against, in 2020 we have attempted to change our brand to try and counter why we were too easy to game plan against.

I'm convinced our "brand" is fugazi...
 

A11dAtP0w3R

I draft better than you and Todd McShay
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I was very critical of us trading out Watts at the time mainly Becoz we didn't have /(still don't have)anyone who can use the ball as well as him in our front half. But then 2018 happened and I looked completely wrong, then 2019 happened I look completely right.

I dunno.

Don't think his contract was that much of an abortion that we had to get rid of him, pretty much I reckon it just came down to Goody not liking him , or perhaps he just knew about some of his off field escapades and thought he would be a cancer to some of the younger players moving forward, I've always believed you need some "lads" in your club tho, they can't all be cyborgs and have a personality of cardboard just like the head coach.
 
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schmuttt

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As I mentioned last week , we are using Hunt completely wrong, if someone told me he'd be playing in our forward line only 3 years ago I would have laughed, his trade value would have been really good after the 2017 season, could have got something really nice in return, but that opportunity is long gone.
Hunt just doesn’t have the brains to be a good afl player. He is super quick, tough and a decent finisher on goal but he is really good at being where the footy isn’t. Down back this was the issue because he just couldn’t find enough of the footy to be effective as a rebounding defender.
 

A11dAtP0w3R

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Hunt just doesn’t have the brains to be a good afl player. He is super quick, tough and a decent finisher on goal but he is really good at being where the footy isn’t. Down back this was the issue because he just couldn’t find enough of the footy to be effective as a rebounding defender.
You're just a hater. 👎

I'll break some news to you, you don't have to get 20+ possessions to be a damaging player.
 

A11dAtP0w3R

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No you don't, but Hunt doesn't offer much without the ball either and his field kicking is poor.
Massively over analysed is his field kicking. It's about him breaking lines and making us far more dangerous on the counter attack than we have been since moving him forward. When Hibbo was there we could get away with it somewhat, now we are just flat out slow and can't rebound out of defence for sh*t.
 

schmuttt

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Massively over analysed is his field kicking. It's about him breaking lines and making us far more dangerous on the counter attack than we have been since moving him forward. When Hibbo was there we could get away with it somewhat, now we are just flat out slow and can't rebound out of defence for sh*t.
Can't complain about people bombing it then say its ok for Hunt to just bomb it. He had a decent year in 2017 then has lost it since and the longer we go on the more it seems that year was a fluke.
 

A11dAtP0w3R

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Can't complain about people bombing it then say its ok for Hunt to just bomb it. He had a decent year in 2017 then has lost it since and the longer we go on the more it seems that year was a fluke.
There's a big difference when Hunt bombs it, cause he has that pace he usually has one on ones ahead of him as teams can't get back/set up their defence in time. Completely different.
 

A11dAtP0w3R

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Hunt bombs it only to have the ball kicked back over his head 5 seconds later
Not his fault no one can beat their opponent one on one then is it?

You guys are ridiculous honestly, do you know how much you need to pay for a guy who's a quick rebounding defender who can shut down his opponent and can kick lasers? Did you and schmuttt ask for a unicorn for Xmas off santa when you were younger also? 😂
 

A11dAtP0w3R

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Saad was pretty cheap when leaving Gold Coast.

We'd have stuffed his development and he would only be half the player he is now though.
The entire list can't all be All Australians in a salary cap league. It's about maximising a player's strength and trying to hide their deficiencies. Something we have completely failed to do with Hunt since Goodwin became coach.
 

A11dAtP0w3R

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I'm not saying he's this amazing player, but Roos clearly got far more out of him playing in defence than Goodwin has . It amazes me that you guys are happy with the status quo given how bad we have been at moving the ball the past year and a bit.

Schmutt whinges about the likes of Jones, Brayshaw and Harmes in defence yet is worried about Hunt's field kicking....smh. Let's stick with the plodders cause it's worked so well for us since 2019.
 

Tulip

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Saad was pretty cheap when leaving Gold Coast.

We'd have stuffed his development and he would only be half the player he is now though.
Essendon is one of the few clubs with a development record as poor as ours. Particularly when it comes to players who choke when it counts.
 

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