Politics & Government Melbournes Homeless Situation

[phantom13]

http://www.news.com.au/national/vic...d/news-story/b8dffb185b48fe5c3fd20a56da5c829a

Melbourne city council is looking to reform camping laws with a view to "evicting" the rough sleepers in the CBD.

On the one hand working in the CBD I can see the point, some of the homless communities are getting quite large now and they look awful (with rubbish etc. everywhere) and purely anecdotal they seem to have a lot of violence and disturbance, on the other hand where the hell are they meant to go?

 

[Doss]

I have worked in the city for close to two years and without a shadow of a doubt, the problem has become much more visible in that time.

As you allude to though, evicting them doesn't address the root cause.

 

[Catfish Alley]

Is it like here where affordable housing is a big issue? Areas that once had cheap rentals now have undergone gentrification.

 

[Doss]

Is it like here where affordable housing is a big issue? Areas that once had cheap rentals now have undergone gentrification.

Partly. And the continued resistance in many areas to higher density development is pushing people out too.

 

[Catfish Alley]

Partly. And the continued resistance in many areas to higher density development is pushing people out too.

Yeah, I imagine so. Can't imagine Melbourne could keep growing at the rate it has without high density living taking off.

 

[Doss]

Yeah, I imagine so. Can't imagine Melbourne could keep growing at the rate it has without high density living taking off.

Well, not without expanding to swallowing Geelong as an outer south-western satellite and swallowing places like Wallan and Kilmore to the north anyway.

 

[phantom13]

Yeah, I imagine so. Can't imagine Melbourne could keep growing at the rate it has without high density living taking off.

100% agree, I have no issue with high density housing but overall we seem to be opposed to the idea culturally.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

First point is that it should be illegal to camp in the streets.

Second point is that there needs to be emergency accommodation available within reasonable proximity and funded by government, but run by volunteer/charity groups which will also provide basic nourishment.

From there people should be able to access the help required to put their lives back together and function in society.

Permitting people to live in the street confuses the genuine needy with those who are professional beggars.

In our society it should absolutely be unnecessary for anyone to live in the street.
Any issue that deprives them of safe accommodation must be short term.

 

[Catfish Alley]

Well, not without expanding to swallowing Geelong as an outer south-western satellite and swallowing places like Wallan and Kilmore to the north anyway.

Argh...I hope not. A vibrant city with high-rise living around transportation would make for a much nicer city than just some sprawling mess.

I'm not sure what the answer is. We have a similar problem. A lot of them actually come here from other parts of the country because it's warmer here. I know they are working on housing development and affordability. Also some job finding and relocation. There will always be a percentage who want to stay on the streets and do drugs but many want an opportunity to move on.

 

[phantom13]

Argh...I hope not. A vibrant city with high-rise living around transportation would make for a much nice city than just some sprawling mess.

I'm not sure what the answer is. We have a similar problem. A lot of them actually come here from other parts of the country because it's warmer here. I know they are working on housing development and affordability. Also some job finding and relocation. There will always be a percentage who want to stay on the streets and do drugs but many want an opportunity to move on.

This is a huge part of it. I think even with better job placement and drug rehab (which we need) there will always be a percentage who cant or wont be helped.

I'm torn cause from my very privileged perch the shanty towns of tents and beggars 1- looks horrible 2- seems to be a haven for crime and intimidation (especially right near our busiest train stations) 3- is a huge hazard (one is right near southbank bridge which is a designated share bike path) but I also know for a lot of them there is nowhere else to go.

 

[Silent Alarm]

Yeah I swear three years ago it wasn't this bad. Just walking through the city they were an occasional, small sighting and the only sort of groups and enclaves were the age-old ones ala Fitzroy Woolies. These days there are people camping on the side of streets all over the CBD, and places like Lygon Street have a rotating cast of them. It just wasn't this bad.

Say what you want, there are so many causes and reasons and they are society's problem.

But it was a disgrace the way they were camping out the front of Flinders Street. Pretty bad timing with the tennis too. But it was gross walking past these people sweeping up the pavement like it was their lawn in Kew, or smoking buckets out in the open and being a major eyesore. I'm glad something is being done about moving them on because it was something that just ruined your day. A s**t sight.

I guess the thing is, overall, I'm not really here nor there. I don't give money to them and don't really feel sorry for them, except the Aboriginals as they tend to represent a social and historical issue I tend to care about. Money is tight for most people these days, and all of us aren't that far away from losing a job and being stuck in the cycle and going downhill from there, but I don't have massive amounts of empathy nor do I really actively hate them – and I definitely don't think it's all their fault. They have fallen through the cracks but inevitably some people will in this pretty *in harsh world and these times.

 

[Silent Alarm]

You can't solve homelessness. Some people are destined to fall into a tough life; they have s**t parents and their experiences unfortunately give them few chances. This world is dog eat dog and they can't get into the black after struggling for so long. Then there are the people with victim mentalities who feel the world is against them, and for which homelessness and drugs is easier than anything else.

The biggest thing for me is how many younger people seem to be homeless these days. I never used to see so many 30, 35 year olds or many 20-year olds at all.

 

[Bluelegs]

 

[Bluelegs]

You can't solve homelessness. Some people are destined to fall into a tough life; they have s**t parents and their experiences unfortunately give them few chances. This world is dog eat dog and they can't get into the black after struggling for so long. Then there are the people with victim mentalities who feel the world is against them, and for which homelessness and drugs is easier than anything else.

The biggest thing for me is how many younger people seem to be homeless these days. I never used to see so many 30, 35 year olds or many 20-year olds at all.

Probably because the youth of yesteryear could get jobs straight out of high-school that would earn them enough to get a mortgage, start a family and support them.

 

[Bluelegs]

First point is that it should be illegal to camp in the streets.

Second point is that there needs to be emergency accommodation available within reasonable proximity and funded by government, but run by volunteer/charity groups which will also provide basic nourishment.

From there people should be able to access the help required to put their lives back together and function in society.

Permitting people to live in the street confuses the genuine needy with those who are professional beggars.

In our society it should absolutely be unnecessary for anyone to live in the street.
Any issue that deprives them of safe accommodation must be short term.

Spoke to a homeless guy last year who was telling me it was something like $25 a night to stay at the local homeless shelter. That's $750 a month, I pay close to that much in rent.

 

[Mofra]

Spoke to a homeless guy last year who was telling me it was something like $25 a night to stay at the local homeless shelter. That's $750 a month, I pay close to that much in rent.

Boarding houses with no communal space are run with a similar mindset - priced at just below the fortnightly centrelink payments so residents have the choice between staying there indefinitely (try just surviving, let alone raising a bond to enter the traditional housing market) or sleeping rough.

Locks on bedroom doors but not the front door, virtually no maintenance, the next level of crisis accommodation is so often worse that people will sleep rough rather than stay in some of the hellholes that masquerade as public housing.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

First point is that it should be illegal to camp in the streets.

Then where can people go when the shelters are full, won't take them, etc.
Being in absolute poverty should not be a crime. If anything, we need the reminder that society fails so many people so desparately.
We have more homless (including those not sleeping rough, but couch-surfuing, etc) people than the populations of Ballarat, Cairns or Launceston. Its an utter epidemic which no politician even looks at - after all, those without an address are not likely to be on the electoral roll - nor are they likely to be paying lobbyists or inviting MPs to corporate boxes the grand final. Therefore, they don't count.

Second point is that there needs to be emergency accommodation available within reasonable proximity and funded by government, but run by volunteer/charity groups which will also provide basic nourishment.

From there people should be able to access the help required to put their lives back together and function in society.

Agree with that part, but good luck getting people to agree to it. All it will take is for one politician to say "higher taxes" and people will be left to continue to rot.

Permitting people to live in the street confuses the genuine needy with those who are professional beggars.

I reckon those who live on the street are going to pretty much be all genuine. It can't be a choice many people make.

In our society it should absolutely be unnecessary for anyone to live in the street.
Any issue that deprives them of safe accommodation must be short term.

It should be absolutely unnecessary, but we keep cutting homeless funding (per person) and selling public housing; all the while purusing policies that drive up accommodation prices including low end rents.

 

[phantom13]

I know the MCC and the police cracked down on the "fake beggars" around Aus Open time but yeh, I cant imagine too many people sleeping in a tent with 3 other unwashed homeless people (many of whom are dealing with substance abuse) are doing it voluntarily.

After considering it for a fair chunk of today and discussing it with co-workers (who it must be noted, none of us have any idea about what that life is really like) it seems the MCC were pretty hamstrung because of the numerous complaints and police visits the tent towns are requiring but that this is a band aid on a septic leg. Sure this might stop or slow down the tents (giving the city a more aesthetically pleasing vibe) but its not going to actually help the homeless epidemic. I don't have answers but this isn't the solution.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

Then where can people go when the shelters are full, won't take them, etc.
Being in absolute poverty should not be a crime. If anything, we need the reminder that society fails so many people so desparately.
We have more homless (including those not sleeping rough, but couch-surfuing, etc) people than the populations of Ballarat, Cairns or Launceston. Its an utter epidemic which no politician even looks at - after all, those without an address are not likely to be on the electoral roll - nor are they likely to be paying lobbyists or inviting MPs to corporate boxes the grand final. Therefore, they don't count.

I am not disagreeing with your points, but Government and society need to address the issue of affordable housing and emergency housing

Agree with that part, but good luck getting people to agree to it. All it will take is for one politician to say "higher taxes" and people will be left to continue to rot.

Of course governments lack courage, but that is why we are in the predicaments.

I reckon those who live on the street are going to pretty much be all genuine. It can't be a choice many people make.

There has been identified issues around beggars and using the homeless appearance to assist in begging.

It should be absolutely unnecessary, but we keep cutting homeless funding (per person) and selling public housing; all the while purusing policies that drive up accommodation prices including low end rents.

Again failure of all sides of politics.

 

[Orange Agent]

Without having experienced anything like it, I find it hard to understand why somebody forced to live homelessly would chose the CBD as the place to set up camp. For this reason alone I question how many are actually legit. 100% agree with earlier comments, the problem is out of control in the past 2 years and something needs to be done. I dont agree with giving them accomadation just for the sake of it, surely there can be programs similar to work for the dole where unskilled labour tasks can be done in exchange for a room somehwere and an allowance to get them to reintegrate back to society.

 

[Silent Alarm]

Has anyone else got a dossier in their mind of untapped, good places to sleep if homeless?

 

[TheKanga]

When i visited Melbourne a few years back.
It was a bit different to me to have homeless coming up and asking for money.
One guy asked me for change so he could ''buy a bed''
Also had this druggy bogan looking guy ask for change at the train station.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Without having experienced anything like it, I find it hard to understand why somebody forced to live homelessly would chose the CBD as the place to set up camp. For this reason alone I question how many are actually legit. 100% agree with earlier comments, the problem is out of control in the past 2 years and something needs to be done. I dont agree with giving them accomadation just for the sake of it, surely there can be programs similar to work for the dole where unskilled labour tasks can be done in exchange for a room somehwere and an allowance to get them to reintegrate back to society.

Just guessing, but I can think of few reasons why the CBD might be a place of choice:
- a bit of "safety in numbers", the homeless are among the most likely to get the s**t kicked out of them by random passers by; in the CBD this probably rises, but so does the chance of there being somebody else aorund who might intervene
- its likely the scarce srevices there are tend to focus on the CBD, almost cyclic in a way - the homeless are there, so the vinnie's patrols and soup vans are there; so the homless are attracted to that, etc
- when a person becomes homless, the place they are most likely to have seen homeless people before is the CBD; again a bit cyclical
- higher density of people generally means better begging opportunity
- sadly, for some but not as many as the styereotypes suggest, its probably a convenient place to get drugs
- in Melbourne the bayside suburbs, including CBD, are somewhat warmer in winter - probably a factor if outside overnight; but CBD and train stations are not just a Melbourne trend (Sydney Central station is a hot bed of homelessness the equal of which I haven't seen anywhere, some parts of Singapore perhaps come close)

 

[Bostonian]

There must be a dead country town out there somewhere. Buy up a few houses and divvy up the rooms between people.

 

[phantom13]

Just guessing, but I can think of few reasons why the CBD might be a place of choice:
- a bit of "safety in numbers", the homeless are among the most likely to get the s**t kicked out of them by random passers by; in the CBD this probably rises, but so does the chance of there being somebody else aorund who might intervene
- its likely the scarce srevices there are tend to focus on the CBD, almost cyclic in a way - the homeless are there, so the vinnie's patrols and soup vans are there; so the homless are attracted to that, etc
- when a person becomes homless, the place they are most likely to have seen homeless people before is the CBD; again a bit cyclical
- higher density of people generally means better begging opportunity
- sadly, for some but not as many as the styereotypes suggest, its probably a convenient place to get drugs
- in Melbourne the bayside suburbs, including CBD, are somewhat warmer in winter - probably a factor if outside overnight; but CBD and train stations are not just a Melbourne trend (Sydney Central station is a hot bed of homelessness the equal of which I haven't seen anywhere, some parts of Singapore perhaps come close)

Every major city with a homeless problem has it centred around big stations.

Paris, New York, Rome, Melbourne even Tokyo from memory.

I always assumed it was because of the begging opportunities, more people commuting and (historically) more likely to have a few spare coins from ticket purchases.