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Melbourne's Massive Problem
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wowlace
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Re: Melbournes Massive Problem
Yeah Grimes will put a few out on the full but that's mostly because of the pressure his stupid team mates put him under with shit handballs.
Yeah Grimes will put a few out on the full but that's mostly because of the pressure his stupid team mates put him under with shit handballs.
Demonic_Inferno
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Re: Melbournes Massive Problem
Unfortunately, Jack Grimes really needs to improve his kicking, and no it's not just his efforts yesterday. Anyone who thinks he is a good kick of the footy at this stage is delusional.
Unfortunately, Jack Grimes really needs to improve his kicking, and no it's not just his efforts yesterday. Anyone who thinks he is a good kick of the footy at this stage is delusional.
Re: Melbournes Massive Problem
Has Watts ever laid a tackle? Only watched the first half yesterday and his tackle attempts look like he is trying to give the other player a cuddle.
Has Watts ever laid a tackle? Only watched the first half yesterday and his tackle attempts look like he is trying to give the other player a cuddle.
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Re: Melbournes Massive Problem
Gee Grimey is unfairly copping it in this thread. His disposal wasn't great against the Ducks but he's generally a pretty good kick. I agree that the HF line will remain the area of most concern this season, as it was last season. We are arguably the most susceptible team in the competition to rebound goals which hurt the most.
Gee Grimey is unfairly copping it in this thread. His disposal wasn't great against the Ducks but he's generally a pretty good kick. I agree that the HF line will remain the area of most concern this season, as it was last season. We are arguably the most susceptible team in the competition to rebound goals which hurt the most.
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Re: Melbournes Massive Problem
I've always felt Grimes is a very good kick, he's the only one in the backline who ever kicks under extreme pressure, the others just handball it around or give it to him to get rid of it if they're about to be tackled. He definitely doesn't turn it over as much as he did yesterday very often
I've always felt Grimes is a very good kick, he's the only one in the backline who ever kicks under extreme pressure, the others just handball it around or give it to him to get rid of it if they're about to be tackled. He definitely doesn't turn it over as much as he did yesterday very often
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Re: Melbournes Massive Problem
I agree his kicking is usually good and the problem is if it stuffs up it goes straight over his head for goal because of the position on the ground. People always need to remember baileys game plan is too take the game on so some high risk high regards kicks are required and sort by the coaches but occasions it will result in oppositions goals.
A few others have made comment about him flying for marks and leaving his opponent down (I think the one noticeable one occurred in the third qtr) it's alright for people to criticize when he does this but the should be jumping up and down when he takes the ten marks as the third man up saving heaps of goals as you can't have it both ways..
If you love when he hits targets out of defence (through the corridor) and when he runs with the flight and takes the mark into front of the leading forward remember that sometimes they aren't going to come off but percentage wise I prefer him kicking and flying for those marks..
I agree his kicking is usually good and the problem is if it stuffs up it goes straight over his head for goal because of the position on the ground. People always need to remember baileys game plan is too take the game on so some high risk high regards kicks are required and sort by the coaches but occasions it will result in oppositions goals.
A few others have made comment about him flying for marks and leaving his opponent down (I think the one noticeable one occurred in the third qtr) it's alright for people to criticize when he does this but the should be jumping up and down when he takes the ten marks as the third man up saving heaps of goals as you can't have it both ways..
If you love when he hits targets out of defence (through the corridor) and when he runs with the flight and takes the mark into front of the leading forward remember that sometimes they aren't going to come off but percentage wise I prefer him kicking and flying for those marks..
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Re: Melbournes Massive Problem
Totally agree, knew people would say grimes!! What you talking about? But it's true his a rubbish kick. Just about every game he does a nice enough looking kick that lands a couple of meter's over the boundary line, often more than just once. Great player just can't kick.
Totally agree, knew people would say grimes!! What you talking about? But it's true his a rubbish kick. Just about every game he does a nice enough looking kick that lands a couple of meter's over the boundary line, often more than just once. Great player just can't kick.
Re: Melbournes Massive Problem
I believe he played as a rebounding HBFer before he was drafted. Probably too short to play that role in the AFL though.
I believe he played as a rebounding HBFer before he was drafted. Probably too short to play that role in the AFL though.
Mr Controversy
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Re: Melbournes Massive Problem
Grimsey is really copping an unfair battering the bloke is seriously a class act. Alot of his kicks are under pressure and i can guarantee bailey plays him down back for the simple reason he rates his delivery.
can someone do some research and compare the effectiveness of Grimes kicks compared to aaron davey's in 2010. would be good to see the difference in %.
Grimsey is really copping an unfair battering the bloke is seriously a class act. Alot of his kicks are under pressure and i can guarantee bailey plays him down back for the simple reason he rates his delivery.
can someone do some research and compare the effectiveness of Grimes kicks compared to aaron davey's in 2010. would be good to see the difference in %.
melbournemartin
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Re: Melbournes Massive Problem
A few points:
1) Grimes is a decent kick. Nothing special but not horrible either. He had a shocking first half on Sunday but bounced back beautifully. He also often gets the ball in high-pressure situations.
2) Davey should play at half-back until he retires.
3) The move of Tapscott to defence shows that Bailey agrees with our concerns and is doing something about it.
4) The kick long to Jamar strategy is a concern. Adding in a kick long to Martin strategy as an alternative would be nothing but a bandaid solution. We need better ways of breaking the forward press. A Tapscott bomb from full back after running around the man on the mark also won't work most of the time. Clubs will learn to look for that and will just stick a strong mark (CHB or a ruck even) in the centre circle waiting.
A few points:
1) Grimes is a decent kick. Nothing special but not horrible either. He had a shocking first half on Sunday but bounced back beautifully. He also often gets the ball in high-pressure situations.
2) Davey should play at half-back until he retires.
3) The move of Tapscott to defence shows that Bailey agrees with our concerns and is doing something about it.
4) The kick long to Jamar strategy is a concern. Adding in a kick long to Martin strategy as an alternative would be nothing but a bandaid solution. We need better ways of breaking the forward press. A Tapscott bomb from full back after running around the man on the mark also won't work most of the time. Clubs will learn to look for that and will just stick a strong mark (CHB or a ruck even) in the centre circle waiting.
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Re: Melbournes Massive Problem
We are all raving about Tapscott at the moment and he's a midget. You are correct though, he was a half-back in the SANFL. A back pocket even. Having both him AND Tapscott would probably make our defence too short though.
We are all raving about Tapscott at the moment and he's a midget. You are correct though, he was a half-back in the SANFL. A back pocket even. Having both him AND Tapscott would probably make our defence too short though.
Re: Melbournes Massive Problem
You cant just leave a player there because these days sides will actually tag a good user of the ball even if they are playing in defense.
Davey, Tapscott, Trengove, Petterd and Green need to be rotated across half back at times during the year. Bennell and Bail could also play the role as they improve as players. Blease, Gysberts and Strauss are other options down the track. I think we'll be ok.
The bigger problem is further up the ground. We dont have any big leadup types or tall, strong contested markers so our strategies will be worked out by other teams quickly.
You cant just leave a player there because these days sides will actually tag a good user of the ball even if they are playing in defense.
Davey, Tapscott, Trengove, Petterd and Green need to be rotated across half back at times during the year. Bennell and Bail could also play the role as they improve as players. Blease, Gysberts and Strauss are other options down the track. I think we'll be ok.
The bigger problem is further up the ground. We dont have any big leadup types or tall, strong contested markers so our strategies will be worked out by other teams quickly.
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Re: Melbournes Massive Problem
I've just whipped out the footy record from Sunday so here are the 2010 stats:
Kicking Efficiency leaders:
1. J.Macdonald 78.6%
2. J.Rivers 77.5%
3. M.Warnock 76.2%
4. J.Frawley 75.2%
5. C.Garland 74.1%
6. J.Grimes 72.9%
These figures aren't a great indication of how good a player's kicking is though because there are many easy chip kicks in defence. The highest midfielder % is Cale Morton with 68.5%. The supposed "super kick" Aaron Davey only has 66.1% kicking efficiency. Interesting that the supposed turnover king Nathan Jones actually has the second highest disposal efficiency (so we are including handballs now) of the midfielders with 72.7%
Oh and Jake Spencer has 100% handball efficiency and 90% overall efficiency
I did have a flick over to the Sydney kicking efficiency and four of their defenders have greater than 80% efficiency. I'd imagine it'd be harder to do little chip kicks on the tiny SCG so that probably is a fair compliment. Adam Goodes only has 56.8 % kicking efficiency.
I've just whipped out the footy record from Sunday so here are the 2010 stats:
Kicking Efficiency leaders:
1. J.Macdonald 78.6%
2. J.Rivers 77.5%
3. M.Warnock 76.2%
4. J.Frawley 75.2%
5. C.Garland 74.1%
6. J.Grimes 72.9%
These figures aren't a great indication of how good a player's kicking is though because there are many easy chip kicks in defence. The highest midfielder % is Cale Morton with 68.5%. The supposed "super kick" Aaron Davey only has 66.1% kicking efficiency. Interesting that the supposed turnover king Nathan Jones actually has the second highest disposal efficiency (so we are including handballs now) of the midfielders with 72.7%
Oh and Jake Spencer has 100% handball efficiency and 90% overall efficiency
I did have a flick over to the Sydney kicking efficiency and four of their defenders have greater than 80% efficiency. I'd imagine it'd be harder to do little chip kicks on the tiny SCG so that probably is a fair compliment. Adam Goodes only has 56.8 % kicking efficiency.
Re: Melbournes Massive Problem
At almost every kickout it appears that we are always standing still and not really going anywhere. I have always wondered why you couldn't use the old bunch everyone together at the top of the 50 and either move left or right.
Even with the zone, you are going to more numbers at the ball and should have more of an opportunity to run/kick it out.
Of course you would also need your center half forward and forwards to be somewhere within the forward half of the ground to receive the ball as well.
At almost every kickout it appears that we are always standing still and not really going anywhere. I have always wondered why you couldn't use the old bunch everyone together at the top of the 50 and either move left or right.
Even with the zone, you are going to more numbers at the ball and should have more of an opportunity to run/kick it out.
Of course you would also need your center half forward and forwards to be somewhere within the forward half of the ground to receive the ball as well.
Re: Melbournes Massive Problem
Great stuff MelbourneMartin.
I would suggest you are right that the backmen will chip the ball around more - also the players who are not strong kicks of the footy are not encouraged to take risks - whereas someone like Davey will be the man trying to penetrate forward hence leading to more turnovers when in fact he is the best kick.
Great stuff MelbourneMartin.
I would suggest you are right that the backmen will chip the ball around more - also the players who are not strong kicks of the footy are not encouraged to take risks - whereas someone like Davey will be the man trying to penetrate forward hence leading to more turnovers when in fact he is the best kick.
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Re: Melbournes Massive Problem
I rate Grimes' kicking, he seems to have gone of the boil in the round before he got injured last year. But his kicking at the start of last year was super. Atm id liken him to a good golfer with a bad swing, he has the ability but just a little off touch atm.
We do seem to struggle out of the backline, but turnovers look at worst and stick in our minds becuase the more often than not turn into goals (as opposed to midefielders bad kicking into the forward line, hurt us less).
With the kickouts, we just need more urgency to often we wait for the designated kicker to run down pick the ball up to kick out and the opposition have set up a really good zone. Which leaves us no otpion but to bomb it long to Jamar.
Davey, Gimes, Tapscott, Garland or Fralwey should be in the goal square when set shots are being taken ready to get the quick kick out. Likewise our other backmen and mids should be ready to make space and position once the kick out is ready to go.
I rate Grimes' kicking, he seems to have gone of the boil in the round before he got injured last year. But his kicking at the start of last year was super. Atm id liken him to a good golfer with a bad swing, he has the ability but just a little off touch atm.
We do seem to struggle out of the backline, but turnovers look at worst and stick in our minds becuase the more often than not turn into goals (as opposed to midefielders bad kicking into the forward line, hurt us less).
With the kickouts, we just need more urgency to often we wait for the designated kicker to run down pick the ball up to kick out and the opposition have set up a really good zone. Which leaves us no otpion but to bomb it long to Jamar.
Davey, Gimes, Tapscott, Garland or Fralwey should be in the goal square when set shots are being taken ready to get the quick kick out. Likewise our other backmen and mids should be ready to make space and position once the kick out is ready to go.
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thedevilsowne
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Re: Melbournes Massive Problem
I disagree, it is a weakness in his game. Not sure how else you can see someone who not only misses his target but puts the ball over the boundary line on the full. It's not like it's only happened once. It's a weakness an I'm sure he'd admit it himself.
I would like to say this is in no way a Grimes bashing, it just that everyone Melbourne supporters and the media just seem to be in denial of his bad kicking.
An can see why, His still only young, his a great defender, great mark, reads the play well an has plenty of courage an clearly is a leader.
It's just his kicking if he can fix this this weakness in his game he has all the potenial to become elite! If he can not he won't.
I disagree, it is a weakness in his game. Not sure how else you can see someone who not only misses his target but puts the ball over the boundary line on the full. It's not like it's only happened once. It's a weakness an I'm sure he'd admit it himself.
I would like to say this is in no way a Grimes bashing, it just that everyone Melbourne supporters and the media just seem to be in denial of his bad kicking.
An can see why, His still only young, his a great defender, great mark, reads the play well an has plenty of courage an clearly is a leader.
It's just his kicking if he can fix this this weakness in his game he has all the potenial to become elite! If he can not he won't.
Re: Melbournes Massive Problem
Whilst I agree this is of some concern to us, and statistics can lie, we kicked 2.2 directly from kick-ins on the weekend compared to Sydneys 0.2
It can't be all that bad.
Whilst I agree this is of some concern to us, and statistics can lie, we kicked 2.2 directly from kick-ins on the weekend compared to Sydneys 0.2
It can't be all that bad.
Re: Melbournes Massive Problem
The problem is we wait too long .
We wait for our kickout structure to be set which also allows the opposition to set theirs . Looks lazy , especially when theres no movement to kick to .
What should be happenening is the closest backman to the spare balls behind the goals should be grabbing a ball as soon as they're sure a behind is scored and start looking for leading options straight away . Get the ball moving before the ump is finished waving the flag .
And Grimes kicking is average at best , with the amount of defensive marks he took from oppositon kicks last week his SC score should've been well over 100 . Clangered himself to 83 tho' .
The problem is we wait too long .
We wait for our kickout structure to be set which also allows the opposition to set theirs . Looks lazy , especially when theres no movement to kick to .
What should be happenening is the closest backman to the spare balls behind the goals should be grabbing a ball as soon as they're sure a behind is scored and start looking for leading options straight away . Get the ball moving before the ump is finished waving the flag .
And Grimes kicking is average at best , with the amount of defensive marks he took from oppositon kicks last week his SC score should've been well over 100 . Clangered himself to 83 tho' .
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Re: Melbournes Massive Problem
yeah spot on an a few people have said it i think we have good options from kick ins but it really frustrates me watching grimes garland davey etc taking really slow kick ins.. they seem to always be wanting to kick to a plan rather than move it on quickly
and can i also be clear here
GRIMES IS A FANTASTIC DEFENDER, A CLASSY READER OF THE PLAY, BRAVE AND CLASSY MARKER
BUT HIS KICKING IS NOT ELITE LIKE SECTIONS OF THE MEDIA MAKE OUT
if we can win the clearances again then were always a chance
yeah spot on an a few people have said it i think we have good options from kick ins but it really frustrates me watching grimes garland davey etc taking really slow kick ins.. they seem to always be wanting to kick to a plan rather than move it on quickly
and can i also be clear here
GRIMES IS A FANTASTIC DEFENDER, A CLASSY READER OF THE PLAY, BRAVE AND CLASSY MARKER
BUT HIS KICKING IS NOT ELITE LIKE SECTIONS OF THE MEDIA MAKE OUT
if we can win the clearances again then were always a chance
