Vic Melbourne's Sudanese gangs

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sherb said:
Because outrage over one horrible crime shows how concerned you lot are concerned with crimes committed by the "white" population overall......
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Given the hi level of shockinf crime to the low level of population is the problem that you lot want to keep placing your hand over ears, whilst stamping your feet crying racist whilst denying the ever increasing proven problems
 
Procrastinator35 said:
Our jails are full to the brim mate.....Difficult to justify keeping juvenile defenders locked away for longer periods when that's the case.
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90% of prisoners should not be in jail as boredom is unhealthy for normal people, let alone those with drug and or mental health issues.

get them working and learning skills in the outback with a swag. Environmental studies of counting plants, mapping aboriginal heritage sites, digging trenches, cleaning up national parks, counting animal species, hunting wild cats and foxes, growing food etc etc
 

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Power Raid said:
90% of prisoners should not be in jail as boredom is unhealthy for normal people, let alone those with drug and or mental health issues.

get them working and learning skills in the outback with a swag. Environmental studies of counting plants, mapping aboriginal heritage sites, digging trenches, cleaning up national parks, counting animal species, hunting wild cats and foxes, growing food etc etc
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Yeah, but none of that puts money in Ruprects or Gina's pockets.....It takes it away by increasing the humanitarian spend....Can't have that.

Besides, we're only here to beat drums in order to win elections....You can't expect us to think 2 steps ahead or equate cause & effect....sheeesh.
 
Procrastinator35 said:
Ask yourselves a simple question.

Would this even be an issue if the Victorian Labor government wasn't in power?

We all know why Murdoch is targeting Andrews & his government by using this issue as a means to try & oust him.....Because Andrews is committed to Green sustainable energy & strong unions....And Gina & Ruprect especially don't like those.

This is simply about vested interests & who stands to lose & gain $$$$…..Principles & truth have nothing to do with it, as any column by Bolt & Panahi will attest to.
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& we know you are dinkum … :rolleyes: … :thumbsdown:
 
Procrastinator35 said:
Yeah, but none of that puts money in Ruprects or Gina's pockets.....It takes it away by increasing the humanitarian spend....Can't have that.

Besides, we're only here to beat drums in order to win elections....You can't expect us to think 2 steps ahead or equate cause & effect....sheeesh.
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100%

all work should be for social benefit such as the environment, community service or similar. Importantly it should also be productive, to benefit the person serving by giving them a sense of purpose.
 
Power Raid said:
100%

all work should be for social benefit such as the environment, community service or similar. Importantly it should also be productive, to benefit the person serving by giving them a sense of purpose.
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Preaching to the converted brother....Meaning often has no place where $$$ & power are the name of the game.

A social progressive is one who believes in the slow but sure progress in the standard of life & living for all.....You can't have that where gluttony & special interests rule the day.....The notion that the top 1% & the establishment rule for society's benefit it total & utter bollocks.

Sudanese crime exists most assuredly....As indeed does crime by any nationality....But it's hardly an issue that warrants centre stage. Crime figures are down overall & these are, for the most part, kids & left-overs from the APEX days.....Old habits & easy money.

Ruprect has merely made it a central issue as a means to oust Andrews & the labour government, as Guy is one of his stoolies!.....It's as simple as that.....He's also counting on a latent 'racism' & fear of 'The other' as tried & true formulas to manipulate a result in his favour.
 
Power Raid said:
90% of prisoners should not be in jail as boredom is unhealthy for normal people, let alone those with drug and or mental health issues.

get them working and learning skills in the outback with a swag. Environmental studies of counting plants, mapping aboriginal heritage sites, digging trenches, cleaning up national parks, counting animal species, hunting wild cats and foxes, growing food etc etc
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Straight off the bat or do we get them weaned first and mentally stabilised?
 
Herne Hill Hammer said:
Straight off the bat or do we get them weaned first and mentally stabilised?
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Medical assessed first and made fit for work.

The sentence doesn’t start until they start work.
 

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Power Raid said:
Medical assessed first and made fit for work.

The sentence doesn’t start until they start work.
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Far better than prison but there are community service orders that work similarly.

I dont mind the idea of a form of national service for wont of a better word. And I say that because I was sent away to a sort of boot camp when I was 16yo. Not as punishment although consequences for stepping out of line seemed harsh ... but as part of my education. Bit like the army. I didnt want to go but was sorry I had to leave in the end, it taught me a lot about self reliance, self discipline and getting along with people I had not much in common with and didnt even particularly like.
 
shellyg said:
Someone has stepped up, that's positive but do you know what he means by ... "Why ruin someone else’s life just because of an incident that took place a while ago."
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Seems a decent bloke. I imagine he is referring to the stabbing earlier this year.
 
More interpreting of stats to do everybody's heads in.

"It's quite a complex issue. Just saying the Sudanese community makes up 0.1 per cent of the Victorian population but accounts for 1.1 per cent of the offending population and, therefore, is 10 times overrepresented — is overly simplistic."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-05/fact-check-sudanese-gangs-victoria/10187550

If there's an over-representation in crime of Australian born with Sudanese heritage, that's in part on all of us. imo.
 
shellyg said:
More interpreting of stats to do everybody's heads in.

"It's quite a complex issue. Just saying the Sudanese community makes up 0.1 per cent of the Victorian population but accounts for 1.1 per cent of the offending population and, therefore, is 10 times overrepresented — is overly simplistic."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-05/fact-check-sudanese-gangs-victoria/10187550

If there's an over-representation in crime of Australian born with Sudanese heritage, that's in part on all of us. imo.
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100%

We all know the "latest" wave of immigration will have issues be it vietnamese with knives, islam and terrorism and sudanese with gangs. They are all real issues and deserve not to be dismissed as petty.

Sure we need better policing and better judicial systems but that's just the stick and circuit breaker. The solution is employment and that may even mean, work for the dole. As the old saying goes "the devil finds work for idle hands". We all need to be busy and feel a sense of worth and belonging.
 
Power Raid said:
90% of prisoners should not be in jail as boredom is unhealthy for normal people, let alone those with drug and or mental health issues.

get them working and learning skills in the outback with a swag. Environmental studies of counting plants, mapping aboriginal heritage sites, digging trenches, cleaning up national parks, counting animal species, hunting wild cats and foxes, growing food etc etc
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This so commonsensical that it hurts that it isn't implemented. It's how our immigrants were assimilated and made to feel like proud Australian citizens, building railway lines, pipelines hydro schemes etc. Contributing to the greater good, building great public works. it's considered political correct these days though, to expect people to work whatever the colour.
 
armpit said:
This so commonsensical that it hurts that it isn't implemented. It's how our immigrants were assimilated and made to feel like proud Australian citizens, building railway lines, pipelines hydro schemes etc. Contributing to the greater good, building great public works. it's considered political correct these days though, to expect people to work whatever the colour.
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my grandparents came here after the war from Eastern Europe. They were put into "secure" work camps, in country Victoria, until they were considered disease free, skills and attitude tested. Jobs were offered daily, with one granddad (an accounts clerk) accepting a job in a dye factory in Perth just to get started in a new life and the other waited until a mechanical job at Holden's Adelaide was offered.

So it is a little "back to the future" but at least we know it works.

It certainly works better than locking people away with nothing to do than inject or snort meth smuggled in people's anuses ala poor old Ben Cousins.
 
Power Raid said:
100%
We all need to be busy and feel a sense of worth and belonging.
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I think it's more true to say that we all need purpose & meaning in our lives....I'm not sure that just 'being busy' necessarily constitutes a meaningful life or meaningful work.....Certainly a 9-5 rote & repetition factory job does not encompass either of those things.

Being busy may fill in our days & lives & make us tired.....But it's by no means a measure of societal happiness for the greatest number, or an aid to self-esteem or self-worth; Especially if the job is boring, a dead-end or is stifling to our creative capacities as human beings....To my mind, there's nothing wrong at all with the Muslim or Buddhist life-styles of dedicating one's life to prayer & God.....There's plenty of meaning & purpose & dare I say it, happiness entailed therein....The pace of life akin to them both, is far more harmonious with our human biological clock also. Whereas, the harried 9-5 monotonous robotics of a hyper-capitalism lifestyle, are thoroughly at odds with our body clocks & thereby completely antithetical to human happiness & our natural state of being.
 
Procrastinator35 said:
I think it's more true to say that we all need purpose & meaning in our lives....I'm not sure that just 'being busy' necessarily constitutes a meaningful life or meaningful work.....Certainly a 9-5 rote & repetition factory job does not encompass either of those things.

Being busy may fill in our days & lives & make us tired.....But it's by no means a measure of societal happiness for the greatest number, or an aid to self-esteem or self-worth; Especially if the job is boring, a dead-end or is stifling to our creative capacities as human beings....To my mind, there's nothing wrong at all with the Muslim or Buddhist life-styles of dedicating one's life to prayer & God.....There's plenty of meaning & purpose & dare I say it, happiness entailed therein....The pace of life akin to them both, is far more harmonious with our human biological clock also. Whereas, the harried 9-5 monotonous robotics of a hyper-capitalism lifestyle, are thoroughly at odds with our body clocks & thereby completely antithetical to human happiness & our natural state of being.
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100% but I dare say those who are committing crimes or at risk of crime, need a little help with how they utilise their time
 
Power Raid said:
work for the dole.
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... except the 'work for the dole' part, not that bit. It's a safety net nobody can actually live on it, forget even paying a phone bill or money for public transport to get anywhere or make centrelink commitments. It needs to be raised $150 pw minimum imo. Another conversation though I think.
 
shellyg said:
More interpreting of stats to do everybody's heads in.

"It's quite a complex issue. Just saying the Sudanese community makes up 0.1 per cent of the Victorian population but accounts for 1.1 per cent of the offending population and, therefore, is 10 times overrepresented — is overly simplistic."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-05/fact-check-sudanese-gangs-victoria/10187550
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I agree that it's overly simplistic. The overall rate for many types of crime in Victoria has been declining significantly in recent years.

And just saying the Sudanese community accounts for 1.1 per cent of the offending population but makes up 0.1 per cent of the Victorian population and, therefore, is 10 times overrepresented — is overly simplistic. For some violent crimes such as aggravated burglary and carjacking young Sudanese males are hugely overrepresented. They account for 7.44 per cent of home invasions, 5.65 per cent of car thefts and 13.9 per cent of aggravated robberies. Compared to 0.1 per cent of the population that means they are up to 139% overrepresented.

shellyg said:
If there's an over-representation in crime of Australian born with Sudanese heritage, that's in part on all of us. imo.
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No it's not.
 
shellyg said:
More interpreting of stats to do everybody's heads in.

"It's quite a complex issue. Just saying the Sudanese community makes up 0.1 per cent of the Victorian population but accounts for 1.1 per cent of the offending population and, therefore, is 10 times overrepresented — is overly simplistic."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-05/fact-check-sudanese-gangs-victoria/10187550

If there's an over-representation in crime of Australian born with Sudanese heritage, that's in part on all of us. imo.
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Why is it only Melbourne where there is a problem on a regular basis shell ? May I ask & why do you choose to isolate Australian born kids from those who came to the country with their parents/mother?

As I understand the community leaders in Sydney take a stronger & proactive role in family discipline.

& shell, I dont buy its in any way on me, & I'm at a loss why you feel its on you - pls explain !!
 
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