mental health - in athletes in partuclar

[Howard Moon]

lots of athletes/footballers coming down with mental illness of late - everyone is quick to judge and doubt... oh but they are rich, why be unhappy?

Australian people are a big bunch of faux grandstanders IMO.

They love getting on their moral high ground and standing up for causes that make them look good, they love saying #metoo, or #putyourbatout - or #ruok, they love a pink ribbon, or a red nose, or a moustache...or whatever else makes them sleep well at night.

its all BS - its like a charity standing order, they don't care, its a transaction without care - its about optics.

when someone really needs their help are they really there? or does the moral outrage take precedence.

Bernard Tomic - a person that has spawned more opinion pieces than maybe he deserves, but all for the wrong reason.

Here we have a guy, who has admitted he is depressed, and needs help.

does anyone offer help? no. They chastise him, call him a quitter, call him a squib, here now is the issue - the stigma remains, if you don't man up and stick it through, you are a coward. This is why men die from suicide, ...people can go on about how its ok to say you are struggling.. but look, is it? or is it just a show for the camera..

some of those arseholes on social media disgusted me.. boneheads like Dane Swan - and you get thousands of bonehead seals clapping at him like braindead zombies seals.. yeh right on dane, you tell him!!

Worst part is these people are in the majority. A bunch of people, a society who would rather get a laugh or harvest likes, than care for fellow humans.

OK I get it, Tomic may have polarized people - but what does he owe anyone?

Big deal, he happened to be good at a sport, again, what does he owe anyone? why does that somehow give anyone the right to expect him to excel at it that's not his desire?

People say he hasn't realized his talent.

Rubbish, he has got closer to realizing his talent and dreams than the bulk of society sitting in their cubicle for 40 years wishing for better..he tried and got closer than you.

But cleary there is more to this tale - I believe boomers, and even the generation under see Tomic as every millennial, a bunch of whinging, snot nosed entitled kids who cant see anything through, who cant handle adversary, who wont work hard and need a safe space for their emotions.

They believe they did it so hard in their early lives and came out the other side superior mental beings.

Let me ask you this, what normal teenager dosent get a little lost? Say stupid things? make a few wrong turns?

He has just happened to do it in the public eye.

You have this guy, who didn't have a dad, he had a boss, a coach - who drove him from age 7 til 'adulthood' with a single minded goal - to be good at tennis, nothing else, not be a good person, not care for others, not build a base of intelligence, or empathy or anything else. just. be. good. at. tennis.

Now he has been set free in the adult world, and he seems listless and lost, with the mind of a child - and nobody wants to help, they just want to chastice and throw barbs

I get it, the counting millons thing grates everyone, me included, and the squibbing isn't a traditionally aussie thing to do as an athlete on the world stage - but clearly they were both defence mechanisms for a troubled mind, a troubled soul. He still has that arrogant athletes mentality, very hard to back down and admit your flaws you when have been built up from age 7 as being better than most at something.

Anyway, people say oh he just went in the jungle for the money, rubbish.

I reckon he genuinely believed this could help him 'find himself' that silly cliché. I think its not a conceited attempt to find fame or money, I think he thought he might actually come out a better person, maybe challenge a few demons.

Maybe now he releases fixing decades of mental illness isn't as easy as sitting in a jungle for a month - it takes more hard professional work. The penny might have dropped....not for the tennis, for actually getting help

He said himself it was the first time his life has slowed down since he was a child, without training, tv, friends, a phone and he immediately got scared and depressed...

this is a good thing, you need to stop and hear those things once in a while, listen to your inner self.

running away from it wont help, have to knock it on the head.

I just hope he dosent come out and go headlong into training, sure, it might chase away the demons for a while but its still only temporary.

The wound is open now, get yourself some help before you get back to sport.

anyway, I went on a bit...

I just hope people, rank and file, keyboard warriors put their morals where their mouths are... ruok, isn't just a hashtag... its not just a day a year for you to make yourself feel better.

A bloke just reached out and everyone laughed and called him a squib. not cool.

 

[owen87]

lots of athletes/footballers coming down with mental illness of late - everyone is quick to judge and doubt... oh but they are rich, why be unhappy?

Australian people are a big bunch of faux grandstanders IMO.

They love getting on their moral high ground and standing up for causes that make them look good, they love saying #metoo, or #putyourbatout - or #ruok, they love a pink ribbon, or a red nose, or a moustache...or whatever else makes them sleep well at night.

its all BS - its like a charity standing order, they don't care, its a transaction without care - its about optics.

when someone really needs their help are they really there? or does the moral outrage take precedence.

Bernard Tomic - a person that has spawned more opinion pieces than maybe he deserves, but all for the wrong reason.

Here we have a guy, who has admitted he is depressed, and needs help.

does anyone offer help? no. They chastise him, call him a quitter, call him a squib, here now is the issue - the stigma remains, if you don't man up and stick it through, you are a coward. This is why men die from suicide, ...people can go on about how its ok to say you are struggling.. but look, is it? or is it just a show for the camera..

some of those arseholes on social media disgusted me.. boneheads like Dane Swan - and you get thousands of bonehead seals clapping at him like braindead zombies seals.. yeh right on dane, you tell him!!

Worst part is these people are in the majority. A bunch of people, a society who would rather get a laugh or harvest likes, than care for fellow humans.

OK I get it, Tomic may have polarized people - but what does he owe anyone?

Big deal, he happened to be good at a sport, again, what does he owe anyone? why does that somehow give anyone the right to expect him to excel at it that's not his desire?

People say he hasn't realized his talent.

Rubbish, he has got closer to realizing his talent and dreams than the bulk of society sitting in their cubicle for 40 years wishing for better..he tried and got closer than you.

But cleary there is more to this tale - I believe boomers, and even the generation under see Tomic as every millennial, a bunch of whinging, snot nosed entitled kids who cant see anything through, who cant handle adversary, who wont work hard and need a safe space for their emotions.

They believe they did it so hard in their early lives and came out the other side superior mental beings.

Let me ask you this, what normal teenager dosent get a little lost? Say stupid things? make a few wrong turns?

He has just happened to do it in the public eye.

You have this guy, who didn't have a dad, he had a boss, a coach - who drove him from age 7 til 'adulthood' with a single minded goal - to be good at tennis, nothing else, not be a good person, not care for others, not build a base of intelligence, or empathy or anything else. just. be. good. at. tennis.

Now he has been set free in the adult world, and he seems listless and lost, with the mind of a child - and nobody wants to help, they just want to chastice and throw barbs

I get it, the counting millons thing grates everyone, me included, and the squibbing isn't a traditionally aussie thing to do as an athlete on the world stage - but clearly they were both defence mechanisms for a troubled mind, a troubled soul. He still has that arrogant athletes mentality, very hard to back down and admit your flaws you when have been built up from age 7 as being better than most at something.

Anyway, people say oh he just went in the jungle for the money, rubbish.

I reckon he genuinely believed this could help him 'find himself' that silly cliché. I think its not a conceited attempt to find fame or money, I think he thought he might actually come out a better person, maybe challenge a few demons.

Maybe now he releases fixing decades of mental illness isn't as easy as sitting in a jungle for a month - it takes more hard professional work. The penny might have dropped....not for the tennis, for actually getting help

He said himself it was the first time his life has slowed down since he was a child, without training, tv, friends, a phone and he immediately got scared and depressed...

this is a good thing, you need to stop and hear those things once in a while, listen to your inner self.

running away from it wont help, have to knock it on the head.

I just hope he dosent come out and go headlong into training, sure, it might chase away the demons for a while but its still only temporary.

The wound is open now, get yourself some help before you get back to sport.

anyway, I went on a bit...

I just hope people, rank and file, keyboard warriors put their morals where their mouths are... ruok, isn't just a hashtag... its not just a day a year for you to make yourself feel better.

A bloke just reached out and everyone laughed and called him a squib. not cool.

I think it's complex; mental health is a major concern that should be better accepted and assisted within society as a whole. It's also - unfortunately - an unverifiable 'get of of jail free' card used when people stuff up.

Tomic clearly isn't OK, he's had a difficult childhood that just happens to mean he's turned out lost and rich, as opposed to lost and poor. Unfortunately for him, being in the public eye, making a living off the back of public interest, means you can't just expect to be left alone when you feel like it, and rake in the publicity when you want.

It's a difficult relationship; fame and wealth against privacy and normalcy.

I think we have an ingrained sense that sportspeople should be better than your average person; they should be tougher, should be held to a higher moral standard, and we perceive they're living some kind of dream lifestyle getting paid to do what we do as a hobby.

Cousins, Hackett, Tomic; all three have done very well out of sport, but all three have fallen by the wayside because of it.

I don't really know what the answer is or why i'm commenting, I think mental health is a difficult area because it's so individual and so hidden. Doubly so when you have these people living aspirational lives that your average person dreams of having; money, fame, and success.

 

[JayJ20]

Yeah I was pretty baffled by the response. The guy says he is depressed. Why make it worse, especially in a time where mental illness is supposedly getting more recognition?

It's not just mental illness in sport. Mental illness particularly in younger men is not looked after or talked about as much in most communities. I deal with a lot of youth from a wide range of backgrounds/SES and I find that a lot of unrealistic expectations are put on younger men. When you hear about what Fasolo was going through everyday he came to the club, you'd have to wonder what needs to change in order to help. The cause is unrealistic expectations. Reality is, everyone reacts differently. Some can handle more pressure. Others can't.

Look I'm not a fan of Tomic, but the criticism is over-the-top IMO. Leaving a reality TV show is hardly a big deal, let alone leaving it for a reason like mental illness.

 

[Howard Moon]

I think it's complex; mental health is a major concern that should be better accepted and assisted within society as a whole. It's also - unfortunately - an unverifiable 'get of of jail free' card used when people stuff up.

Tomic clearly isn't OK, he's had a difficult childhood that just happens to mean he's turned out lost and rich, as opposed to lost and poor. Unfortunately for him, being in the public eye, making a living off the back of public interest, means you can't just expect to be left alone when you feel like it, and rake in the publicity when you want.

It's a difficult relationship; fame and wealth against privacy and normalcy.

I think we have an ingrained sense that sportspeople should be better than your average person; they should be tougher, should be held to a higher moral standard, and we perceive they're living some kind of dream lifestyle getting paid to do what we do as a hobby.

Cousins, Hackett, Tomic; all three have done very well out of sport, but all three have fallen by the wayside because of it.

I don't really know what the answer is or why i'm commenting, I think mental health is a difficult area because it's so individual and so hidden. Doubly so when you have these people living aspirational lives that your average person dreams of having; money, fame, and success.

Might be good for him to realise money dosent actually fix or do anything, other than maybe buy temporary distractions...
hopefully he to seeks help, rather than going back to the same mouse wheel... get help, get mentally stable, give the mllions to charity then come back in a few years a stable happy bloke, he would be an underdog story, a proper inspiration maybe?

 

[owen87]

Might be good for him to realise money dosent actually fix or do anything, other than maybe buy temporary distractions...
hopefully he to seeks help, rather than going back to the same mouse wheel... get help, get mentally stable, give the mllions to charity then come back in a few years a stable happy bloke, he would be an underdog story, a proper inspiration maybe?

I think if he didn't behave the way he did people would have more sympathy; when it appears he's just milking money, complaining about life, and doing nothing to help himself, your average person who is working hard just to get by isn't going to be feeling a whole lot of empathy for the guy.

I'm not saying it's right, but when your average person is struggling to pay the bills while Tomic is talking about counting his millions, it's not going to garner much support for him.

The media certainly should be held to some (or any) kind of standards though, the way they relentlessly pursued Hird is the prime example of just how little they care about the repercussions of what they do.

 

[Howard Moon]

I think if he didn't behave the way he did people would have more sympathy; when it appears he's just milking money, complaining about life, and doing nothing to help himself, your average person who is working hard just to get by isn't going to be feeling a whole lot of empathy for the guy.

I'm not saying it's right, but when your average person is struggling to pay the bills while Tomic is talking about counting his millions, it's not going to garner much support for him.

The media certainly should be held to some (or any) kind of standards though, the way they relentlessly pursued Hird is the prime example of just how little they care about the repercussions of what they do.

agree on that

I kinda relate it back to being a teenager , I don't reckon there has been a teenager that has lived that hasn't said stupid things, been a snot nose or said/done things to their parents that they don't later regret , things that if they were not your blood that might cause any other person to say FU, I don't need this in my life

but he isn't doing these things to his parents, hes doing them in the public eye - are we are not blood, so we are saying, we don't need to stand for this behavior!

The big bad guy here is the tv company who took an unstable person in there for the ratings, then chastised him on the way out as a quitter.

they knew exactly how this would play.

 

[sameolds33]

agree on that



The big bad guy here is the tv company who took an unstable person in there for the ratings, then chastised him on the way out as a quitter.

they knew exactly how this would play.

If they knew how they would play Tomic's mental health condition there would be a duty of care issue...wonder if the contract covers the unintended consequences of the reality TV show in the contestants' real lives.

 

[Lore]

If they knew how they would play Tomic's mental health condition there would be a duty of care issue...wonder if the contract covers the unintended consequences of the reality TV show in the contestants' real lives.

Not that it would help him much. Damage is done and financial compensation is a waste of time.

 

[Howard Moon]

Not that it would help him much. Damage is done and financial compensation is a waste of time.

pretty sure the producer said Tomic had contacted him days prior saying he wasn't in a good space and was thinking of backing out

then he begged him again to stay the 2nd night

finally in the exit interview he said he was 50% angry at him for ruining the shows plans, 50% wants him to get better

50%, how generous!!

This new wave of reality TV is just a grand exercise in putting people on tv and twisting situations around them to make them crack/mentally fry

stuff like the bachelor, married at first sight, old big brother, survivor, even the cooking shows now.. all that rubbish.

They are not competitions, they are just mental situations to see how far they can take people before they crack - in front of a gawking audience

so they can make dramatic tv ads saying you. wont. believe. what. she. does. next with a teary eyes girl or whatever.. umissable so and so

absolute garbage.

 

[Lore]

pretty sure the producer said Tomic had contacted him days prior saying he wasn't in a good space and was thinking of backing out

then he begged him again to stay the 2nd night

finally in the exit interview he said he was 50% angry at him for ruining the shows plans, 50% wants him to get better

50%, how generous!!

This new wave of reality TV is just a grand exercise in putting people on tv and twisting situations around them to make them crack/mentally fry

stuff like the bachelor, married at first sight, old big brother, survivor, even the cooking shows now.. all that rubbish.

They are not competitions, they are just mental situations to see how far they can take people before they crack - in front of a gawking audience

so they can make dramatic tv ads saying you. wont. believe. what. she. does. next with a teary eyes girl or whatever.. umissable so and so

absolute garbage.

Agree on the majority of that. I find MasterChef a bit less grating than the others though. It's situational drama rather than contrived personal conflicts, and the drama is always relevant to the central theme of the show, not just bs between contestants or judges or whatever that you see on some other shows. They do make mountains out of molehills sometimes and it looks heavily edited, but at least it doesn't come off as psychologically damaging for the sake of a few dollars.

I've only seen the first episode of I'm a Celebrity so can't really comment on the producer, but from what you're saying he sounds like an a-hole.

 

[TheBrightSide]

pretty sure the producer said Tomic had contacted him days prior saying he wasn't in a good space and was thinking of backing out

then he begged him again to stay the 2nd night

finally in the exit interview he said he was 50% angry at him for ruining the shows plans, 50% wants him to get better

50%, how generous!!

This new wave of reality TV is just a grand exercise in putting people on tv and twisting situations around them to make them crack/mentally fry

stuff like the bachelor, married at first sight, old big brother, survivor, even the cooking shows now.. all that rubbish.

They are not competitions, they are just mental situations to see how far they can take people before they crack - in front of a gawking audience

so they can make dramatic tv ads saying you. wont. believe. what. she. does. next with a teary eyes girl or whatever.. umissable so and so

absolute garbage.

A person breaking down in tears is what reality TV is all about.
It’s the money shot.

 

[Howard Moon]

A person breaking down in tears is what reality TV is all about.
It’s the money shot.

It's just grows the perception and stigma of mentally fragile makes you a weak loser, mentally strong makes a winner... All these shows perpetuate it. Survivor is built on it, ditto the biggest loser...just keep drumming it in

Makes it harder for people to come out and admit weakness as I said in the main post

The stigma lives. All these shows are directly counter productive to the efforts of big blue and the like

 

[TheBrightSide]

It's just grows the perception and stigma of mentally fragile makes you a weak loser, mentally strong makes a winner... All these shows perpetuate it. Survivor is built on it, ditto the biggest loser...just keep drumming it in

Makes it harder for people to come out and admit weakness as I said in the main post

The stigma lives. All these shows are directly counter productive to the efforts of big blue and the like

Yeah, best to avoid rubbish tv shows, which is most of them.

 

[vast]

Great OP Howard Moon.

Only part i think was wrong was that you said its Australians that like to grandstand, its pretty much the entire world....well the western part of it at least, but I guess you were bringing it into context for the Tomic sitatuon.

The point you made about him not owing anyone anything is very true. Many will say oh but Tennis Australia gave him all this money etc but its just a easier way to kick him again. One could argue they failed him too, its not like these sporting bodies do this stuff from the goodness of their hearts and often the people within them have their own interest in mind.

Prime example is that US gymnastics team doctor that was abusing girls for upto 30 years and has only just now been bought to justice, but people turned a blind eye so that they could keep their job and the gold rolling in.

 

[Howard Moon]

Great OP Howard Moon.

Only part i think was wrong was that you said its Australians that like to grandstand, its pretty much the entire world....well the western part of it at least, but I guess you were bringing it into context for the Tomic sitatuon.

The point you made about him not owing anyone anything is very true. Many will say oh but Tennis Australia gave him all this money etc but its just a easier way to kick him again. One could argue they failed him too, its not like these sporting bodies do this stuff from the goodness of their hearts and often the people within them have their own interest in mind.

Prime example is that US gymnastics team doctor that was abusing girls for upto 30 years and has only just now been bought to justice, but people turned a blind eye so that they could keep their job and the gold rolling in.

You could nearly argue Tennis Australia is like channel ten in this scenario - turning a blind eye to things like the Tomic scenario, Dokic and her dad, Philippoussis and his dad... if they are seeing success or rankings - turn a blind eye

here I was thinking people had a legal duty to report these things

look at the mess it leaves later on.

anyhow re: the grandstanding, I think its been the rise of slackdivisim in the social media age... now people just join in the chorus of a flag filter profile pic or a hash tag or whatever it might be and they have 'made a difference'... or maybe they have just been seen to have made a difference to their friendship circle?

 

[vast]

You could nearly argue Tennis Australia is like channel ten in this scenario - turning a blind eye to things like the Tomic scenario, Dokic and her dad, Philippoussis and his dad... if they are seeing success or rankings - turn a blind eye

here I was thinking people had a legal duty to report these things

look at the mess it leaves later on.

anyhow re: the grandstanding, I think its been the rise of slackdivisim in the social media age... now people just join in the chorus of a flag filter profile pic or a hash tag or whatever it might be and they have 'made a difference'... or maybe they have just been seen to have made a difference to their friendship circle?

All I know for sure is that I see a lot hypocrites too particularly on social media. Ill put my hand up as being guilty of it on occassion here but there are those like you point on take the moral highground on twitter or wherever but are far from perfect themselves that take it too extremes.

 

[Pweter]

now people just join in the chorus of a flag filter profile pic or a hash tag or whatever it might be and they have 'made a difference'... or maybe they have just been seen to have made a difference to their friendship circle?

Some people are genuine, I believe most are pumping up their own ego. "Look at me everyone I'm #makingadifference, my social conscience is elite due to all the causes I hashtag support".

 

[citizen-erased]

His counting the millions antics didn't bother me in the slightest. Well done to him for earning that much.

He lacks a coach. Not just a tennis coach, but someone to help him set his life on the right path.
Whether that's tennis, celebrity whatever or something else; the lack of direction and the money he has won are clearly not helping him.

Everyone needs to get off his back. His talent is not owed to anyone.

 

[Bombers36]

Great thread guys - as a few people have pointed out it is a complex issue mental health. for athletes that demand more of their body and often have to go through years of disciplined training it can be difficult when that all finishes. For famous athletes even more so.
How many people on here know of the star school footballer who lost his way with either drink/women/drugs, or a combination of all and put on weight and/or fell off the rails? There's plenty of them. Athletes who fall in with the wrong crowd - plenty of those also. I guess we all have choices in life, and we have to take some responsibility for our choices. If our choices lead us to a point where our mental health is suffering - then we need to take responsibility for this also.
For famous athletes this is a little more difficult, and when the fame, adulation and money dries up it can be very tough. I personally know a jockey who had it all then basically threw it all away on booze and gambling, and hes now trying to pick up the pieces of his life. But we all should remember - athletes or not, that there is always hope, no matter what the situation, and there's some pretty good treatment out there for mental health issues these days. Maybe its an area that the AFL can take a lead on - I think we are doing Ok here, and if it helps the individual, it helps the community, and its a win win for everybody

 

[Howard Moon]

I saw somebody say that during that challenge, he wouldn't allow himself to fail...once he realised he might not complete he self sabotaged himself to quickly end it with an excuse

Mirrors exactly how he leaves tennis games early or tanks when it's not going to plsn.

That might be his dad not accepting failure as a rule during early years so he took on board the baggage that retiring with an excuse is better than loding

 

[Lore]

I saw somebody say that during that challenge, he wouldn't allow himself to fail...once he realised he might not complete he self sabotaged himself to quickly end it with an excuse

That is literally how I survived high school. Not entirely sure what that says about me The latter part of your post re: parental pressure does not apply to me though.

 

[Howard Moon]

That is literally how I survived high school. Not entirely sure what that says about me The latter part of your post re: parental pressure does not apply to me though.

I guess i was trying to say how can you learn anything about yourself or improve if you don't lose once in a while!

 

[Lore]

I guess i was trying to say how can you learn anything about yourself or improve if you don't lose once in a while!

Win it or bin it

 

[Longjohnmire]

Great thread guys - as a few people have pointed out it is a complex issue mental health. for athletes that demand more of their body and often have to go through years of disciplined training it can be difficult when that all finishes. For famous athletes even more so.
How many people on here know of the star school footballer who lost his way with either drink/women/drugs, or a combination of all and put on weight and/or fell off the rails? There's plenty of them. Athletes who fall in with the wrong crowd - plenty of those also. I guess we all have choices in life, and we have to take some responsibility for our choices. If our choices lead us to a point where our mental health is suffering - then we need to take responsibility for this also.
For famous athletes this is a little more difficult, and when the fame, adulation and money dries up it can be very tough. I personally know a jockey who had it all then basically threw it all away on booze and gambling, and hes now trying to pick up the pieces of his life. But we all should remember - athletes or not, that there is always hope, no matter what the situation, and there's some pretty good treatment out there for mental health issues these days. Maybe its an area that the AFL can take a lead on - I think we are doing Ok here, and if it helps the individual, it helps the community, and its a win win for everybody

Responsibility is exactly what the younger generations lack. We live in a world that is becoming more and more PC and everyone is a victim. I sense this going to be a new trend in youngsters coming through that have been handled with kid gloves their whole lives and won’t step up and take reaponsibilty for their own lives and career short falls. It’s the same thing in the working world.
Bernard Tomic needs to take responsibility for his career and it’s clear shortfalls and stop making excuses for his lack of success.
Stop telling everyone how good you could be and sort yourself out. Step up, take responsibility for where your life is at, sort it out with professional help and step away from tennis/media/social media completely until you have sorted it out.
Same goes for some other professional athletes with depression. Maybe they have developed the depression because of poor decisions they have made. Instead of blaming everything on their own poor decisions that have led them to that point, they blame all of the poor decisions on the depression. It’s the wrong way around, it’s claiming that you are a ‘victim’ for having a mental illness and that is why you have behaved badly, instead of claiming responsibility for the poor decisions and/or behaviours that have led them to the have depression.
There are no doubt genuine cases of clinical depression ala Wayne Schwass, but IMO the real cases like him would be fewer than the ‘Bernard Tomic’ style looking for something or someone else to blame.
I’m no expert on the matter and I am talking very generally about certain situations but I wonder how much our PC culture in relation to how sports kids are raised with the ‘everyone gets a trophy’ or ‘we don’t keep scores it’s all for fun’ mentality that’s constantly creeping in everywhere. We are raising a bunch of sooks with this whole mentality.

 

[Lore]

He's a few months older than I am, so if his experience is anything like mine participation awards weren't a thing when we were kids. That only came in a few years ago..