Mental Illness - lets help smash the stigma

[HARKER]

One last thing on this - Do we think there wouldn't be backlash for having a 'Mens' Mental Health round?
There would be, wouldn't there?

Not sure the AFL would want to expose themselves to more criticism for not being inclusive. They cop it well enough already.
Caroline Wilson and co wouldn't let go.

 

[HBF]

What do you mean?
It's a serious question. So many AFL players are opening up about mental health struggles. There have been recent suicides among ex-players. If the AFL can theme rounds to focus on things like breast cancer then why not a men's mental health round. Open up the conversation.

This is a fantastic idea and something that the AFL should seriously look at.

 

[Kramer1]

What do you mean?
It's a serious question. So many AFL players are opening up about mental health struggles. There have been recent suicides among ex-players. If the AFL can theme rounds to focus on things like breast cancer then why not a men's mental health round. Open up the conversation.

Just a slightly glib response MEB...after the siren losses aren't great for mental health. I'm still peering out from the blinds, cradling my emotional support dog.

Of course anything that raises awareness is welcome.

 

[ESKIE]

If we were to add another to the repertoire, mental health should be seriously considered as it's something that may truly have impact.



I've known this to be the case for a long time. Not hard to look up

• Girls account for around 75% of reported self harm
• Girls account or around 70% of reported suicidal thinking

From the study you showed up and we are talking about depression aren't we? I am.

Women's increased risk of depression

Women are diagnosed with depression more often than men are. Discover what factors may contribute to that increased risk.

www.mayoclinic.org

"Women are nearly twice as likely as men to be diagnosed with depression. Depression can occur at any age."

Read this one.

Whichever way, it's a non-gender issue and should be dealt with as such.

Maybe women / girls tend to seek help / reach out hence the diagnosis


I live in a regional area, male suicide in this region between the ages 40 to mid 50’s is terrible, no signs of depression or issues.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Maybe women / girls tend to seek help / reach out hence the diagnosis


I live in a regional area, male suicide in this region between the ages 40 to mid 50’s is terrible, no signs of depression or issues.

My dad’s cousin died by suicide last year, the day before Father’s Day. It was the typical “he’s the last person I would’ve though had mental health concerns!” and he left behind two children. Terribly sad.

 

[HARKER]

Maybe women / girls tend to seek help / reach out hence the diagnosis

I live in a regional area, male suicide in this region between the ages 40 to mid 50’s is terrible, no signs of depression or issues.

Whatever the ratio may be and where, depression and associated mental health issues aren't fun for anyone.
I think we all mean well but I wouldn't be putting forward that mens issues are somehow worse than womens when it come to depression.

That's not what we're saying here at all, but there would be seen to be an implication of this should we have a gender specific Mental health round.
Maybe the AFL would do it but I don't see it. One in, all in.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Just a slightly glib response MEB...after the siren losses aren't great for mental health. I'm still peering out from the blinds, cradling my emotional support dog.

Of course anything that raises awareness is welcome.

this is a slightly glib free zone!

 

[Kramer1]

Maybe women / girls tend to seek help / reach out hence the diagnosis


I live in a regional area, male suicide in this region between the ages 40 to mid 50’s is terrible, no signs of depression or issues.

I've just hit 40, and live in a regional area. I don't know a lot about the myriad pathways that lead people to depression and potential suicide...but I get the situational stuff that puts men of my age at risk. You aren't socialising as much because you have kids and a mortgage and are responsible, you've hung up the footy boots/hockey stick/cricket bat so no longer have that outlet, you have more responsibility and pressure at work which creates all sorts of imbalances elsewhere in life, you are potentially encountering health issues for the first time in your life, you are potentially encountering grief for the first time in your life, mid to late forties is a distinct peak in break ups and divorce, your mates are all receding into their own lives just as quickly so the RUOK?s are fewer and further between, and in a regional area you can add in an additional layer of isolation, the stigma of your mental health issue being more conspicuous in a small community, and more limited access to health professionals should you get that far.

And you are a bloke. You are resistant to seeking help, you are less emotionally attuned to yourself, you feel the 'guilt' of unloading your problems on others more keenly, you are particularly good at soldiering on and masking signs and symptoms, much of which is biology as much as 'toxic' masculinity...and you are significantly more likely to act on impulse which plays out in men representing three quarters of suicides in Victoria.

Don't know if any of this relates to Shane Tuck, but you can see how being a recently retired AFL player could absolutely amplify some of these feelings.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

I've just hit 40, and live in a regional area. I don't know a lot about the myriad pathways that lead people to depression and potential suicide...but I get the situational stuff that puts men of my age at risk. You aren't socialising as much because you have kids and a mortgage and are responsible, you've hung up the footy boots/hockey stick/cricket bat so no longer have that outlet, you have more responsibility and pressure at work which creates all sorts of imbalances elsewhere in life, you are potentially encountering health issues for the first time in your life, you are potentially encountering grief for the first time in your life, mid to late forties is a distinct peak in break ups and divorce, your mates are all receding into their own lives just as quickly so the RUOK?s are fewer and further between, and in a regional area you can add in an additional layer of isolation, the stigma of your mental health issue being more conspicuous in a small community, and more limited access to health professionals should you get that far.

And you are a bloke. You are resistant to seeking help, you are less emotionally attuned to yourself, you feel the 'guilt' of unloading your problems on others more keenly, you are particularly good at soldiering on and masking signs and symptoms, much of which is biology as much as 'toxic' masculinity...and you are significantly more likely to act on impulse which plays out in men representing three quarters of suicides in Victoria.

Don't know if any of this relates to Shane Tuck, but you can see how being a recently retired AFL player could absolutely amplify some of these feelings.

I feel like it’s harder for men to make new friends than it is for women—not based in science just my perception.

 

[Lace_Out]

If we were to add another to the repertoire, mental health should be seriously considered as it's something that may truly have impact.



I've known this to be the case for a long time. Not hard to look up

• Girls account for around 75% of reported self harm
• Girls account or around 70% of reported suicidal thinking

From the study you showed up and we are talking about depression aren't we? I am.

Women's increased risk of depression

Women are diagnosed with depression more often than men are. Discover what factors may contribute to that increased risk.

www.mayoclinic.org

"Women are nearly twice as likely as men to be diagnosed with depression. Depression can occur at any age."

Read this one.

Whichever way, it's a non-gender issue and should be dealt with as such.

You need to factor in that men a far less likely to admit they are depressed or thinking about suicide.

The facts are men, especially age 45 (that age by far) are far more likely to commit suicide.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[blueboy25]

I have organised a mental health expert to speak to my senior footy club the last few years.

I remember him saying that females are more likely to self harm than commit suicide, where as males are less likely to self harm but head straight towards suicide.

 

[El Topo]

If this does translate into some kind of AFL mental health initiative, it would be great to see something substantive - 'awareness' plays well on the corporate speakers' circuit, but what's never mentioned is the multitude of intensely aware people with no access to vital services until they're in full-blown crisis

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

If this does translate into some kind of AFL mental health initiative, it would be great to see something substantive - 'awareness' plays well on the corporate speakers' circuit, but what's never mentioned is the multitude of intensely aware people with no access to vital services until they're in full-blown crisis

I was thinking along the lines of a full blown campaign like White Ribbon.
A week of willing players being open to talk about their mental health struggles, featured on football programs on Fox and free to air. Episodes of Ordineroli Speaking and Last Time I Cried posted to social media channels. Telethons and donations to Beyond Blue or other such places. Perhaps resources available at the games--phone numbers for text-to-call-back services, maybe some stalls with people available on the spot.

Just spitballing here.

 

[El Topo]

I was thinking along the lines of a full blown campaign like White Ribbon.
A week of willing players being open to talk about their mental health struggles, featured on football programs on Fox and free to air. Episodes of Ordineroli Speaking and Last Time I Cried posted to social media channels. Telethons and donations to Beyond Blue or other such places. Perhaps resources available at the games--phone numbers for text-to-call-back services, maybe some stalls with people available on the spot.

Just spitballing here.

White Ribbon are a great case study for the limits of 'awareness' organisations - a nice decoration for grinning pollies wear on their lapel while they strip resources from frontline DV services.

Agree with your sentiment though - if the AFL wants to be serious about this, they have the ability to make a real impact

 

[Gethelred]

I was thinking along the lines of a full blown campaign like White Ribbon.
A week of willing players being open to talk about their mental health struggles, featured on football programs on Fox and free to air. Episodes of Ordineroli Speaking and Last Time I Cried posted to social media channels. Telethons and donations to Beyond Blue or other such places. Perhaps resources available at the games--phone numbers for text-to-call-back services, maybe some stalls with people available on the spot.

Just spitballing here.

I'm not - by nature - an open person. I'm quite private. I'm not going to watch shows like that, but what I would respond to is something from my family or my friends.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that there needs to be a greater understanding of mateship in an Australian context, for want of a better term. I get that sport for men can be something that takes men away from their partners and their children, but in my opinion there needs to be a bit more recognition that these clubs can be that kind of outlet. It bothers me that the interactions within those places can be boiled down to having a beer or chucking a bet on, but so much of these small moments between people who've known each other for years can be something of a leveler and a stress reliever within our society.

Men, for whatever reason - my mother would've said the patriarchy - do not associate without a reason. They need the pretext of sport, beer, work; some reason to associate with someone else other than the fact they like them. Unless and until this can be broken down, these miniature communities need to be allowed to a somewhat greater degree than otherwise; and no, this isn't code for 'Why won't my wife let me out with the boys?'

It isn't about men's spaces or keeping women away; it's about getting men to a position where, due to a combination of comfort and familiarity, they can talk to each other about what's actually the problem.

My two cents.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

I'm not - by nature - an open person. I'm quite private. I'm not going to watch shows like that, but what I would respond to is something from my family or my friends.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that there needs to be a greater understanding of mateship in an Australian context, for want of a better term. I get that sport for men can be something that takes men away from their partners and their children, but in my opinion there needs to be a bit more recognition that these clubs can be that kind of outlet. It bothers me that the interactions within those places can be boiled down to having a beer or chucking a bet on, but so much of these small moments between people who've known each other for years can be something of a leveler and a stress reliever within our society.

Men, for whatever reason - my mother would've said the patriarchy - do not associate without a reason. They need the pretext of sport, beer, work; some reason to associate with someone else other than the fact they like them. Unless and until this can be broken down, these miniature communities need to be allowed to a somewhat greater degree than otherwise; and no, this isn't code for 'Why won't my wife let me out with the boys?'

It isn't about men's spaces or keeping women away; it's about getting men to a position where, due to a combination of comfort and familiarity, they can talk to each other about what's actually the problem.

My two cents.

Everyone's different, hey. For every man who would respond to a check in from a family member I'm sure there's another man who wouldn't.

Of course men need men's spaces, just as women need women-only spaces.

I'm not too sure how this relates to the mental health round idea but that could just be my lack of comprehension.

 

[Gethelred]

Everyone's different, hey. For every man who would respond to a check in from a family member I'm sure there's another man who wouldn't.

Of course men need men's spaces, just as women need women-only spaces.

I'm not too sure how this relates to the mental health round idea but that could just be my lack of comprehension.

It's more that I'd be likely to roll my eyes at it, similar to what El Topo is saying. I'd hear the word 'awareness', and my interest would wane appreciably.

Big Gestures(tm) are not something that I think work all that well. They make a lot of noise, and they seize the public interest for a week, but then things kind of just go back to the way they were. What I'm saying is more that we need to change everything minutely and by stages. We need everyone to be more comfortable talking to people about their problems, and what that means in this context is that we need to allow people their time away from their lives. And, unfortunately, that also means their family sometimes.

This goes for both genders, by the by. And now I feel like I'm mansplaining.

 

[Kramer1]

I'm not - by nature - an open person. I'm quite private. I'm not going to watch shows like that, but what I would respond to is something from my family or my friends.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that there needs to be a greater understanding of mateship in an Australian context, for want of a better term. I get that sport for men can be something that takes men away from their partners and their children, but in my opinion there needs to be a bit more recognition that these clubs can be that kind of outlet. It bothers me that the interactions within those places can be boiled down to having a beer or chucking a bet on, but so much of these small moments between people who've known each other for years can be something of a leveler and a stress reliever within our society.

Men, for whatever reason - my mother would've said the patriarchy - do not associate without a reason. They need the pretext of sport, beer, work; some reason to associate with someone else other than the fact they like them. Unless and until this can be broken down, these miniature communities need to be allowed to a somewhat greater degree than otherwise; and no, this isn't code for 'Why won't my wife let me out with the boys?'

It isn't about men's spaces or keeping women away; it's about getting men to a position where, due to a combination of comfort and familiarity, they can talk to each other about what's actually the problem.

My two cents.

Yeah the Men's Shed organisation espouse something along the lines of 'women talk face to face, men talk side by side', which is a nice way of putting it.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

It's more that I'd be likely to roll my eyes at it, similar to what El Topo is saying. I'd hear the word 'awareness', and my interest would wane appreciably.

Big Gestures(tm) are not something that I think work all that well. They make a lot of noise, and they seize the public interest for a week, but then things kind of just go back to the way they were. What I'm saying is more that we need to change everything minutely and by stages. We need everyone to be more comfortable talking to people about their problems, and what that means in this context is that we need to allow people their time away from their lives. And, unfortunately, that also means their family sometimes.

This goes for both genders, by the by. And now I feel like I'm mansplaining.

Lol it's not mansplaining when I ask for an explanation.

Totally hear you on the eye rolling. I'm an eye roller from way back. I do worry though, I worry for my sons. I want them to see from a very young age that men talk about their problems and feelings and reach out for help. Selfishly, I need it to be visible.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

PLUS is it womansplaining for me to spitball ideas on how to support men better?!

 

[Elmer_Judd]

Turning to Alcohol is probably one of the worst things a person (esp men) can do to deal with mental health/emotional Issues, sadly it does seem to be a significant coping mechanism for many, esp during such a grim time for the world rights.

Think that issue (addiction/alcoholism) really needs to be put more often at the forefront of the disucssion about Men's Mental Health..

 

[Gethelred]

Turning to Alcohol is probably one of the worst things a person (esp men) can do to deal with mental health/emotional Issues, sadly it does seem to be a significant coping mechanism for many, esp during such a grim time for the world rights.

Think that issue (addiction/alcoholism) really needs to be put more often at the forefront of the disucssion about Men's Mental Health..

I don't know your history, Elmer, but I've had this chat before. While drinking is a problem, for a lot of people it is their only outlet. People talk when they drink; while it is untrue to say that they cannot be themselves without it, it would also be untrue to say that some - myself included - are comfortable talking about themselves or their problems in the everyday.

Alcohol is a crutch, certainly, but not all people can walk.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

PLUS is it womansplaining for me to spitball ideas on how to support men better?!

I dunno, but I have always felt a lot more comfortable opening up to women (friends/therapists etc) than men, esp my mates.

Often when a discussion goes in my circle of bloke friends, serious/emotional Issues get briefly mentioned than we move on, such as one of my good mates Aidan, split up with his partner and mother of his kids a few years ago, we had a brief 2 minute chat about it when we caught up to shoot the breeze/play some pool, than moved on to the usual blokey banter.

At the time I felt like we should have tried talking about it more/seeing what we could do to help Aidan, but he shut up shop and didn't want to talk about it anymore.

Happy to say that they reconciled several months later, but I guess this sums up male stubbornness about emotions and not opening up..

 

[katmanblue]

Everyone's different, hey. For every man who would respond to a check in from a family member I'm sure there's another man who wouldn't.

Of course men need men's spaces, just as women need women-only spaces.

I'm not too sure how this relates to the mental health round idea but that could just be my lack of comprehension.

How many men's DV shelters do you reckon there are? I haven't been able to find one in Melbourne.

If you are a male in an abusive heterosexual relationship there are NO resources for you. You can call Mensline where the 'counselors' are trained to use the Duluth model. I.e. they treat you like you are the abuser.

So what's a bloke to do? Are you gonna talk to your mates about your missus being mean? Very unlikely. So you bottle it up. Then the dam bursts.

On SM-N960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Jabba73]

Getting access to mental health resources in the country is very difficult, even in emergency situations. Using the resources to get help is only a good idea if there are resources available.

Have referred people to get help through an Employee Assistance Program and they make the appointment immediately ... for 5 weeks time. Pointless if they are in immediate danger. Have had kids in our care who require counselling to deal with trauma, appointments made ... out of town ... for 3 weeks time.

Ridiculous how little money is spent in prevention of health issues, it seems much easier to get resources that deal with the consequences, at 4 or 5 times the cost. Visible injury or illness gains plenty of sympathy, mental illness, not so much. Unfortunately, the mental side can be much more destructive