Merged draft threads

[saladin]

hmmm. i wonder if sam blease will still be available when our 2nd round pick arrives? and tom swift is still a joker in the pack - could go anywhere from about #8 onwards.

 

[yaco55]

Re: Merged Trade/Delistings threads

I also thought that A'Vard could be a rookie selection.

I have big wraps on Walters.

There is a chance that he could slip to the second round.

PS; I hung around A1 at telstra dome on about 4 occasions at telstra dome.

I will be at QE2 on Sunday so give us a buzz.

 

[ant555]

Jarrad Grant, Mitchell Thorp & Nathan J. Brown are some players off the top of my head that have risen considerably early on in the draft because of the club's needs. But sometimes yeah, I do get a bit caught into that.

I dont think any of the blokes you mentioned went all that much higher. Grant and Thorp where considered top 10 picks around half way through the year. Brown surprised a few but obviously Collingwood rated him very highly and they where right. His form suggests he was in the top 15 players in that draft so far.

 

[ant555]

They needed another KPP, so they chose Thorp. Selwood & Armitage were rated higher than Thorpy from my understanding in that draft, but Thorp wasn't that far off them no doubt. If it's close to call, they'll go with needs I've found.

Yes but you are still putting your own slant on the ratings. You don't rate them higher than a certain player but that is not to say clubs have the same view as you.Your understanding of the draft could be miles away from where the recruiters of certain clubs rate players.
If you don't wan't to listen then you don't have to but clubs prepare lists that have what they consider the best players ranked in order and they pick from that list. They are not some sort of generic list so the order can be very diferent between clubs and other peoples opinions but they all do it the same way . They pick who they think is the best available player in the first two rounds.

 

[ant555]

I will put up my reviews on some players in the champs at some stage next week. It will be based on what i saw over the whole series. May well throw a few TAC Cup players in as well who did not play champs

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Looking forward to that, ant

 

[Duckworth]

Yeah, Looking forward to it ANT.

I was wondering peoples thoughts on Essendon selecting a Ruckman. I definately think we will pick up another one in this draft but it could be anywhere between our 2nd round pick to the Rookie list. I think the deciding factor might be Laycock and how he finishes off this season. I just watched the Carlton game again this morning and noticed he was missing for a lot of the game but did a couple of nice things in the last quarter. Don't get me wrong I think he well be at Essendon next year, I just think his form will be the deciding factor on the urgency to develop another Ruck.

 

[Duckworth]

I remember reading somewhere that McKernan played a bit of football in defense earlier this year. Was wondering if anyone could confirm this and comment on how this side of his game was? I'm assuming that at some point after that he went forward and showed promise.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

It seems like McKernan is a little too small to play in the ruck at AFL level. At 196cm, he'd need to have a leap as good as Ryder's or better to be a quality, long term ruckman. However ant was saying that he's played at CHF and CHB and been pretty good.

Browne and Roughead from Country seem all right.

The two who impressed me in the ruck were the South Australian boys, Jarred Redden (202cm) and to a lesser extent Rhys Stanley (199cm). Redden especially was well and truly out-rucking an opponent much bigger than him (Max Wilson - 197cm, 105kg (Redden's 88kg)), as well as being effective around the ground. He'd be one I'd look at for a late pick to a rookie pick.

 

[Merv]

It looks like there is plenty of ruckman in this years draft, so i think we will certainly pick one up and unless they have their eye on a highly rated one, like Vickery, we should get one after the 3rd round i would think.

 

[Duckworth]

Thanks for that guys. I wasn't thinking McKernan could play in the ruck, I was looking at his flexibility as a KPP. Maybe in the Lucas mold could be good at both ends of the ground. He is a good kick of the football as well.

The Ruck thing was a separate question. Sounds like it will be a good year to pick up another one fairly late then. I do like the look of Vickery though...

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Vickery was very impressive when he went forward as well.

I like your thinking on McKernan - play him at CHB long term, Pears/Ryder at full back and possibly free Ryder up.

 

[Daytripper]

I'd have no issue getting a ruck with our first choice. In fact I think it might be the optimal strategy.

1. With GC and WS entering the draft from next year, you can almost guarantee they will take two ruckman each in the 09 and 10 drafts. Obviously they are going the be the cream of the crop so whatever is left over may not be top quality.

2. Hille is 26/27. Rucks generally take 3-4 years to develop minimum. Therefore if we get a good one now we will have a ready made replacement for when Hille eventually slows down.

3. Would a prospective Tasmanian licence mean Laycock could get swallowed up by them. I know a lot of you would be happy about that but again that would leave us with just Hille and Bellchambers (who I am not 100% convinced is going to be an A grade AFL ruckman - most probably a second stringer if that). If TBC doesn't work out and Laycock continues to underperform or gets traded where does that leave us ?

4. Good sides have two good quality ruckman.

5. What if Hille goes down ?

6. From what I've read, you could throw a blanket over all the midfielders and KPP's from the upcoming draft with the exception of Rich and Watts. Would a midfielder drafted at pick 22 be that much different to a midfielder drafted at 6 or 7.

7. I think we're right for mids at the moment. Ditto key forwards. We do need a quality key back but clubs generally draft players as forwards and turn them into backs. Its extremely rare that a player is drafted as a pure back.

We should not be drafting for what we need next year. What we are drafting for in the 2008 draft is what we need in 2012/2013.

Lets not fall into the trap of thinking a draft pick will solve immediate needs because it wont.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Interesting points, Daytripper.

ant will know better than I, but I'd say that Redden will slide a fair way (3rd or 4th round even), and he looks to be real quality, around the ground as well. That lets us pick up Hurley and a midfielder, as well as a real quality ruckman.

 

[Daytripper]

Interesting points, Daytripper.

ant will know better than I, but I'd say that Redden will slide a fair way (3rd or 4th round even), and he looks to be real quality, around the ground as well. That lets us pick up Hurley and a midfielder, as well as a real quality ruckman.

Mate, if he is real quality he is not going to slide to the 3rd or 4th round.

 

[Merv]

I'd have no issue getting a ruck with our first choice. In fact I think it might be the optimal strategy.

1. With GC and WS entering the draft from next year, you can almost guarantee they will take two ruckman each in the 09 and 10 drafts. Obviously they are going the be the cream of the crop so whatever is left over may not be top quality.

I don't think GC will be participating in the ND next year.

I think they will get access to QLD and Darwin players but it's 2010 when they enter the draft fully and get the first picks, however many that ends up being.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Mate, if he is real quality he is not going to slide to the 3rd or 4th round.

Perhaps not real quality, but he was impressive, and doesn't have the hype of Vickery or Roughead.

 

[marcuz]

Vickery was very impressive when he went forward as well.

I like your thinking on McKernan - play him at CHB long term, Pears/Ryder at full back and possibly free Ryder up.

I think Pears is a born CHB, i wouldnt be playing him on the last line.

If we need a Full-Back then we should take a punt on a power athlete no matter how raw he may seem. Its the one position that you can easily overcome a lack of talent with sheer athleticism. Daniel Merrett is a case in point. I'm sure there will be kids at the back end of the draft that could fit the bill.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Cale Hooker?

 

[timbo3195]

We drafted Laycock thinking exactly how we are thinking about Vickery.
As in, both their upsides are that they can go forward.
Obviously didn't pay off with Laycock, how do we know it would with Vickery?

 

[ant555]

After watching the replay of the Metro v WA game a couple of times i think those who have been critical of Hurley have been very harsh.
In the first quarter he kept Mitch Marsh to zero possessions and it was not like Mitch was out of form as he was close to WA's best player on saturday.
No one took a contested mark when he was in the area.
He handled the kick ins well all day.
The only really poor points where the leads where he let Klause get away twice in the last quarter and the first of those he was partially blocked. It is not a totally bad day out if you only let your oponent get away on a quick lead twice(the second time was in the last two minutes of the game when it was all over). Even after Klause beat him on the lead and kicked the goal the very next inside 50 Hurley to a great contested mark under heaps of pressure from a quick inside 50 from Rich. The next inside 50 he was rite with Klause and effected a spoil.
As far as the two goals conceded when on Natinui. The first was becasue he got turned around by a better athlete. He was beaten all ends up there but big Nat has a tighter turning circle than most mids so it was bound to happen at some stage.
The second time he was beaten by Natinui was simply becasue Natinui used his body well at the exact point in time to nudge Hurley under the ball and trun to run onto it. You could not condem him on that as it is something you see happen to a heap of players every weekend during AFL games. It was simply good body work that forced Hurley under the contest slightly. It had nothing to do with Hurley having a lack of pace. No one in Hurleys position would have been able to recover and force a tackle. It was just perfect forward body work from Natinui.

 

[ant555]

We drafted Laycock thinking exactly how we are thinking about Vickery.
As in, both their upsides are that they can go forward.
Obviously didn't pay off with Laycock, how do we know it would with Vickery?

We drafted Laycock from Tassie and out of the division two Champs for a start.
Secondly there are no guarantee's about any kid but just becasue one ruckman does not come on as well as expected it does not mean the next one won't. You dont know if it will pay off or not but at 200cm with better pace than Laycock , good skills, the ability to pick the ball up at ground level and also be able to present as a serious forward target one could say his chances are better than most ruckmen.
What Laycock has done has nothing to do with it. If you worried about everyone who you drafted that did not live up to expectations and did not draft his type again then you would not ever draft anyone.

 

[Colin D'Cops]

We drafted Laycock thinking exactly how we are thinking about Vickery.
As in, both their upsides are that they can go forward.
Obviously didn't pay off with Laycock, how do we know it would with Vickery?

I wouldn't even consider him with our first pick, but if he's around with our second pick we would have to have a serious look at him as he looks a handy type. Hurley(VM)/Hartlett(SA) with our first pick, Zaharakis(VM)/ Lisle(VM) with our second pick, Hall(SA)/Schoenmakers(SA) with our third pick & McCulloch(TAS)/Redden(SA) with our fourth pick to boost our ruck stocks just incase Bellchambers doesn't make it, or Laycock gets traded or something along those lines in a few years time could be a good outcome for our club imo. Just throwing it out there, still plenty of time before the draft though, so a lot can happen between now and then.

 

[Daytripper]

Guys, can I just repeat (and I'm sure ant will agree) that who we draft in 2008 needs to be looked at from a 2011/2012/2013 perspective.

Try and envisage what holes we will have then and fill them up now.

We also need to look at the strengths of the upcoming drafts and where we are likely to be situated in regards to drafting opportunities in the next few years.

 

[Daytripper]

I don't think GC will be participating in the ND next year.

I think they will get access to QLD and Darwin players but it's 2010 when they enter the draft fully and get the first picks, however many that ends up being.

Not sure if the AFL has completely made up its mind on that yet.