Mergers will come back onto the table (which Victorian teams would make the best case for merging?)

Catsmaninamerica

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Rather than mergers, i wonder if there is the possibility of a revamped VFL that includes relegation. Clubs that go broke - and don’t kid yourself, clubs will become insolvent if the season doesn’t happen - can literally negotiate with creditors to relaunch as a VFL club and get the opportunity to Trade back to solvency with massively reduced costs of VFL. So could we see an AFL that consisted of

COLLINGWOOD
Richmond
Essendon
Carlton
Hawthorn
Geelong
West coast
Freo
Brisbane
Sydney
GWS
Adelaide

A VFL consisting of

Coburg
Williamstown
Frankston
Weribee
Norf
Melbourne
Footscray
StKilda
Preston
Port melbourne
 
Dec 10, 2003
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This isn’t pretty, but I think it will come from 18 teams down to 12, or if they get scared, 14.

Cats/Bulldogs makes geographical sense. The AFL will need to hold onto Geelong as an entity because Hutchy might be right, they’ll have to auction off Etihad and will want a boutique base near Melbourne. (After the merger ... who owns Whitten Oval? Noice real estate, Kimmy.)

St Kilda/Hawthorn makes geographical sense. The new East Melbourne Hawks still wouldn't have a good base, so share digs with Richmond. (Of course, if the AFL were looking to the bigger picture, they’d merge the Saints into the Demons and resolve two millennia of spiritual conflict.)

Carlton absorb North: Carlton Kangaroos, based at Carlton. North’s assets sold and put into the AFL.

Essendon prefers to go bust rather than merge; they survive. Ditto Tigers, but in Tasmania. Collingwood absorb Melbourne.

Brisbane absorbs the Gold Coast, Swans absorb GWS. Basing the Queensland Suns in Logan is not ideal – poor public transport from both Brisbane and Gold Coast. It would be impossible to maintain two home grounds..

Victoria has five clubs and interstate teams are a majority. Victoria is angry; the rest of Australia is happy. Players from merged teams are given the option of moving back to a club in their home state. There are 12 teams, and 22-week home and away season. Just like before ...

It would mean 6*22= 132 games. compared to 9*22=198 games.... that's a huge loss of media money. As it is atm ... the extra game GC and GWS supply pay for their participation.
 
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I have just left a meeting with the other Mods...

To make our life a little easier we call on the AFL to liquidate every club EXCEPT Geelong and therefore, present us with the Premiership cup every year...retaining Chris Scott on his present salary, who would then become the greatest coach of all time.

We feel that The Chris Scott thread however should remain, allowing the usual suspects to complain he is paid too much.....and allow debate on why he dropped Stanley for the 2019 QF..... and why he still selects Zach Guthrie, despite him averaging zero possessions. (even though everyone else does as well )

I urged the rest to allow the Cam Guthrie thread to be retained for Patrick Bateman's sake, but this was vehemently overruled leading to my good self being ambushed, tarred and feathered before I could leave the building.

Actually, I have become rather fond of feathers as a result.

There is some doubt this suggestion will gain traction however.
 

Ray Donovan

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https://www.theage.com.au/podcast/t...come-back-onto-the-table-20200325-p54dql.html


“Caroline Wilson, Jake Niall and Michael Gleeson discuss the long-term impacts of the shutdown on the game, including the fact that club mergers are back on the table. Is this how the number of clubs in Victoria get reduced?”


I haven’t listened to the podcast, but the premise got me thinking. If the AFL was determined to reduce the number of Victorian teams (through merging) from the current 10 down to 6 (drastic I know) which clubs would make the best fit? Would it make sense for the Hawthorn-Melbourne merge that almost happened many years ago still make sense? Would Geelong be a natural merge with the Western Bulldogs? I know many here, me included, would see the GCS as an obvious team to eliminate but for this exercise (it’s intended to be fun and not deadly serious) I’d like the rationalisation to take place through Victorian teams only.


Any suggestions on teams to merge?

Personally the way the game is structured and owned I see zero mergers or teams disappearing from the game. Maybe that is a positive view, I'm not buying the game will decimate at professional level.

The impact for me will be the country and local league footy.

The money flows down and it will always protect the top first.

And to be Frank, it's just too difficult to safeguard the game at the moment so under AFL level I cannot at present see a way in 2020 they even get on the park.

Lots of players administrators are paid, clubs need funding for maintenance I don't underestimate the communities ability to rally.

Just a huge ask I believe personally
 

Ray Donovan

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I have just left a meeting with the other Mods...

To make our life a little easier we call on the AFL to liquidate every club EXCEPT Geelong and therefore, present us with the Premiership cup every year...retaining Chris Scott on his present salary, who would then become the greatest coach of all time.

We feel that The Chris Scott thread however should remain, allowing the usual suspects to complain he is paid too much.....and allow debate on why he dropped Stanley for the 2019 QF..... and why he still selects Zach Guthrie, despite him averaging zero possessions. (even though everyone else does as well )

I urged the rest to allow the Cam Guthrie thread to be retained for Patrick Bateman's sake, but this was vehemently overruled leading to my good self being ambushed, tarred and feathered before I could leave the building.

Actually, I have become rather fond of feathers as a result.

There is some doubt this suggestion will gain traction however.

Chris Scott's wet dream, the mods would be salivating !
 

Ray Donovan

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If Geelong merged I would stop watching AFL, full stop.

Such a lie maxy you have way to much patriotism for the cats to let that happen. What if they merged with tassie somehow and played 8 games in launceston a year you would be all over it like a wet rag. Beats swimming over 4 times a year
 

Spazz Cat

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Such a lie maxy you have way to much patriotism for the cats to let that happen. What if they merged with tassie somehow and played 8 games in launceston a year you would be all over it like a wet rag. Beats swimming over 4 times a year
I reckon it depends how it happens. If your like Fitzroy and your just shut down and they call another team the Lions. Then your done. Nothing Fitzroy about them.
If they let that merger with North happen they would of been happy.
If we went in to save a team like Norf, not be forced to merge, I would still watch.
 

Ray Donovan

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I reckon it depends how it happens. If your like Fitzroy and your just shut down and they call another team the Lions. Then your done. Nothing Fitzroy about them.
If they let that merger with North happen they would of been happy.
If we went in to save a team like Norf, not be forced to merge, I would still watch.

Max said he would stop watching AFL full stop. This is max milburn we are talking, who swims across from tassie to watch footy. I assume that's the only way tasmanians get to the mainland 😂👍
 
Dec 10, 2003
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It loses you the pay tv games, but not the commercial stations. Will fox sports still be here in 18 months?

It loses broadcast money.... whether its pay or free. At the moment PAY TV ...is paying a big chunk of the dollars. To go back to 12 teams , media will hav etc pay a lot more for games or everything has to contract. Perhaps 12 gets more advertising etc.

If Fox falls over , it will be replaced by something. Free to air is dying.
 
Seeing as both Hawthorn and North have shown a desire to play in Tasmania I'd say merge them and then play at least 6 home games in Hobart. Melbourne and Carlton seem like a good fit.
Agree, if I was Gil I'd be saying to North & Hawks, "You were happy to take Tasmanian money for so long now you can sleep in the beds you made".....so that takes it down to 8 in Victoria
 

Sticksman

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I find it amazing how much money there is in the game (literally hundreds of millions) yet it dries up in a single season. The fallout from this should be a major ongoing change around how much those who are directly involved (from CEOs to assistant coaches) with the players being the obvious biggest fattest area for savings. Just think about these numbers:

$371,000 is the average player wage! That's over a grand a day for every day in a year.

"In June 2017, the AFL and AFL Players Association agreed to a new CBA deal which resulted in a 20% increase in players salary. The six-year deal, which begins in 2017 and ends in 2022, means that the average player wage rises from $309,000 to $371,000 and the player salary cap from $10.37m to $12.45m."
 
I think North Melbourne defiantly end up in Tasmania

We don't merg, having our own home ground comes home to roost right now.

But I dont see how stage 5 goes ahead for GMHBA, government wont be able to fund it still.

Think Hawthorn lose Tassie contract with North going down there so that will financially hurt them:

Bulldogs
St Kilda
Hawthorn
and Melbourne
In merger chopping block

Teams Safe
Richmond
Collingwood
Essendon
Carlton
Geelong
Hawthorn

(Yes I have Hawthorn on both lists, hard to read their position in all this)
 

Goggin Our Best

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Rather than mergers, i wonder if there is the possibility of a revamped VFL that includes relegation. Clubs that go broke - and don’t kid yourself, clubs will become insolvent if the season doesn’t happen - can literally negotiate with creditors to relaunch as a VFL club and get the opportunity to Trade back to solvency with massively reduced costs of VFL. So could we see an AFL that consisted of

COLLINGWOOD
Richmond
Essendon
Carlton
Hawthorn
Geelong
West coast
Freo
Brisbane
Sydney
GWS
Adelaide

A VFL consisting of

Coburg
Williamstown
Frankston
Weribee
Norf
Melbourne
Footscray
StKilda
Preston
Port melbourne

That would be good only because Geel are in the top division - but it would be devastating to the supporters of the clubs you have put in the VFL - and Port Adelaide ( who have got a great history with all of those Premierships ) you havent given them a spot at all

If we could only have a system - like the old VFA in its heyday - Div 1 and Div 2 - the premiers of Div 2 promoted and the wooden spoon team in Div 1 relegated

Like if the AFL - ( like the EPL) had the bottom 3 relegated each year - that would create excitement/interst - for the teams occupying the last 5-6 spots - and really the competition - instead of the season dying in the aarse

People would argue that powerhouse and huge clubs like Coll and W/Coast are too big to be relegated - yet Manchester United - massive club - great club and all the rest of it in the early 70s they got relegated - and i think it was an ex Manchester United player who kicked the goal which sunk them

Ican remember years ago - when West Brom somehow stayed up on the last - there were live games going to the death - and WB allday looked relegated for sure - and then something amazing happened at one of the games in injury time - the whistle blew - and WB stayed up - their supporters all swamped the ground - it was amazing stuff

The AFL miss out on that - come round 15-16 - for half a dozen clubs - the remaining games are basically a waste of time
 

Sticksman

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- come round 15-16 - for half a dozen clubs - the remaining games are basically a waste of time

Yes, that's been a serious problem with tanking and the rewards for performing poorly by choice. I still have an issue with the draft order. I'd change it to the non-finalists get marbles in a barrel with their position in the draft determined by their ladder position; finish last you get one marble, finish 9th you get 8 marbles. The teams that play finals line up in the draft order based on their ladder position. The premiers always get the last place. Make all teams work hard to play finals and the others work to get every win they can to get an extra marble in the barrel.
 
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Sep 29, 2013
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It would mean 6*22= 132 games. compared to 9*22=198 games.... that's a huge loss of media money. As it is atm ... the extra game GC and GWS supply pay for their participation.

I can see the argument, I'm just not sure what proportion of that media money will be around. There was already a sense that the game had asked for, and got, too much from broadcasters in the last deal. And in any case, you aren't factoring in building up the women's game. Once you do that, you have more games - 264 - not fewer.
 

JohnZ

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If we could only have a system - like the old VFA in its heyday - Div 1 and Div 2 - the premiers of Div 2 promoted and the wooden spoon team in Div 1 relegated

Like if the AFL - ( like the EPL) had the bottom 3 relegated each year - that would create excitement/interst - for the teams occupying the last 5-6 spots - and really the competition - instead of the season dying in the aarse
If we want to keep the 22 round season, we look back to the 70s and 80s when there were 12 teams in the VFL.

Instead of cutting 6 teams, if we add/promote 6 teams to make 24, then split the AFL into 2 divisions (Div 1/Div2) with a bottom4/top4 relegation+promotion system we have a sustainable full H+A fixture combined with a more sustainable team structure. imho
 

goyoucatters

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If we want to keep the 22 round season, we look back to the 70s and 80s when there were 12 teams in the VFL.

Instead of cutting 6 teams, if we add/promote 6 teams to make 24, then split the AFL into 2 divisions (Div 1/Div2) with a bottom4/top4 relegation+promotion system we have a sustainable full H+A fixture combined with a more sustainable team structure. imho

This kind of approach would be far more sustainable for keeping long-time fans of specific clubs in the game, in my view.

I would be far happier with continuing to support the Geelong Cats (in whatever division they play) over any sort of merger or relocation involving our club. You could basically count me out of any significant interest as soon as we lose our unique locale, our colours or our name.

To reinforce the point of how much fans still love to support 'their team' (despite its lack of on-field success at any given point in time), you only have to look at Manchester City. Goggin Our Best raised the issue of Manchester United being relegated to what was then called the Second Division in 1974. Well, at the end of that season in the Second Div. (when the Reds finished top and were promoted back to the First Division), United still had the highest average home attendance of any club in the entire Football League for the season.

And City ended up doing 'twice as well' as United, finding themselves relegated twice (1996 & 1998) and thus playing in the old Third Division for a season. During that year, their home crowds still averaged well over 28,000 people (in a stadium that only held 32,500). They made their way back up the divisions, the money came from the Middle East, and the rest is history.

Point is, though, multitudes of their fans remained loyal to the club as long as it was still Manchester City. Whereas you can guarantee that any merger of their identity with any other club would have had the fans departing in their droves.

So, as much as it has never been part of the VFL/AFL's m.o., if they truly want to hold on to fan bases through what is likely to be a time of tremendous upheaval, they would be well advised to recognise how many people probably love 'their club' more than they love footy.

I'd be one who would definitely be only taking a casual interest in the game if the Cats were ever part of a 'streamlining' process. And, after many years as a financial member of the footy club, I feel sure that plenty of others would be joining me in walking their funds away from the game in general if our club was to lose its identity.
 
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Dec 10, 2003
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I can see the argument, I'm just not sure what proportion of that media money will be around. There was already a sense that the game had asked for, and got, too much from broadcasters in the last deal. And in any case, you aren't factoring in building up the women's game. Once you do that, you have more games - 264 - not fewer.

Its debatable what the W games are worth... that's yet to be determined. We have VFL games that are worth little for example...

I suspect we will see midweek games if that mean more money from broadcasters... many changes coming because the roaring twenties are over
 
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