Health Methamphetamine

[rdhopkins2]

Methamphetamine

Commonly known as meth, ice or shard, this illegal drug is a scourge on society.

Not only is this highly addictive and poor for the health of users, it is expensive and often a violence inducing substance.

Meth sees its way before police in a number of forms. Possession and dealing. Violent crimes. Theft and fraud (funding addiction). Traffic accidents and the list goes on.

Meth puts pressure on the public purse. Through Centrelink (junkie dole bludgers or those whose meth use renders them useless to work), hospitals & medical facilities, police resources, justice and prison systems.

Not to mention contributing to breaking up of families, relationships or friendships.

So, how do we solve a problem like meth?

 

[radiojake]

There are plenty of functioning meth users

Just saying. ..

 

[rdhopkins2]

There are plenty of functioning meth users

Just saying. ..

I'm sure there are, but they would be the minority. Not condoning their use of it but chances are it will come back to bite them in the face at some point. Whether they trip up and lose a job over it (ie fail a roadside drug test and be unable to get to work on public transport), fail a workplace test or turn to dealing to fund an increasingly expensive habit.

 

[BEEG]

There are plenty of functioning meth users

Just saying. ..

They all end up broke in the long run.

 

[Frank Bunn]

There are plenty of functioning meth users

Just saying. ..

That's true. There are social meth users (eg party goers) and functional users (truck drivers, students staying awake to finish assignments). But once you become a dependent user you are pretty much ****ed. Also, many meth users avoid Ice (crystal meth) as it is thought of as more addictive and having more harmful side effects than speed (powdered meth).

 

[radiojake]

Well yeah, you're right

But change the OP and replace meth with booze and it all still rings true


I'm not claiming there is no issue because there clearly is - i think it's the constant demonisong of the unemployed that annoys me

 

[Deep]

There are plenty of functioning meth users

Just saying. ..

I don’t smoke it a lot and I’ve sure as shit never injected the stuff but I’ve smoked ice at least once a month for nearly 4 years now. To me it’s non addictive but it helps me sleep with mild insomnia rather than actually keeping me awake and paranoid like I’ve seen happen to others.

Addiction is a flaw of the weak

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Had a housemate who was a former addict. He was an arseh*le. However I suspect he was an arseh*le long before he touched it. It was sort of the worst of both worlds because Yay I've got past my demons and the future is mine made him a confident arseh*le.

So, how do we solve a problem like meth?

End the War on Drugs. Stop cutting welfare to the bone (stop voting Liberal).

Addiction is a flaw of the weak

Are you on drugs right now?

 

[Deep]

Had a housemate who was a former addict. He was an arseh*le. However I suspect he was an arseh*le long before he touched it. It was sort of the worst of both worlds because Yay I've got past my demons and the future is mine made him a confident arseh*le.



End the War on Drugs. Stop cutting welfare to the bone (stop voting Liberal).



Are you on drugs right now?

Not for about a week.. unless you’re a soft**** who counts shit like alcohol and caffeine

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Not for about a week.. unless you’re a soft**** who counts shit like alcohol and caffeine

So you're addicted to alcohol and caffeine.

 

[Deep]

So you're addicted to alcohol and caffeine.

Addicted to neither I just like to skull booze and pass out sometimes

 

[Upgrayedd]

Have had 2 cousins get stuffed by the shit, One's sober now for 5 years. He eventually went to rehab center in a regional town and is fine now. One's currently in jail for unpaid speeding fines he couldnt pay, He'll be out in a few months, just go back to being a deadshit and will go straight back, He's been in and out of jail for 3-4 years

Well once we treat it as a medical issue rather then a crime.

*Nobody should ever go to jail for possession of meth under 60 grams.

*Cannot help someone who doesn't want help either, people will crap on about rehab, but a lot of people have serious mental issues which they get addicted to ice

*Locking people up, being tough? Doesn't work either.


It fuels a lot of crime, While the government still needs to go hard on big trafficers, at a community level most of the funds used to raid your local ice house which may cost 10k to spy on, set up, then cost tens of thousands of dollars in court time, jail ect. We should focus on people who Want help, fund councelling,

A lot of people get caught up with the same crowd after attempting rehab, and end up the exact place where they are. I would love for the state governments to set up centers in more regional places, away from everything so people have a place to chill out, doesnt feel like a prison and just to work on themselves for 3-6 months at a time.

 

[Power Raid]

Methamphetamine

Commonly known as meth, ice or shard, this illegal drug is a scourge on society.

Not only is this highly addictive and poor for the health of users, it is expensive and often a violence inducing substance.

Meth sees its way before police in a number of forms. Possession and dealing. Violent crimes. Theft and fraud (funding addiction). Traffic accidents and the list goes on.

Meth puts pressure on the public purse. Through Centrelink (junkie dole bludgers or those whose meth use renders them useless to work), hospitals & medical facilities, police resources, justice and prison systems.

Not to mention contributing to breaking up of families, relationships or friendships.

So, how do we solve a problem like meth?

many companies test for drugs before entering work sites for safety reasons. Personally I would like to see this for all welfare, schools and driving. This identifies users but what then?

If we were serious on drugs where people test positive rather than dragging them through the criminal justice system, the focus should be on rehabilitation in remote camps (perhaps a farm) away from society, away from drugs and negative influences. When they have completed rehab (which is 12 months for meth) and provided full details of their supplier, then and only then can they return to society.

Of course the only solution is too tough and thus we will simply dick about around the edges, ruin people lives (the user, the families and the people they negatively affect) and see billions in wasted health, welfare and loss of productivity which could all be allocated to those in real need.

 

[Gralin]

I don’t smoke it a lot and I’ve sure as shit never injected the stuff but I’ve smoked ice at least once a month for nearly 4 years now. To me it’s non addictive but it helps me sleep with mild insomnia rather than actually keeping me awake and paranoid like I’ve seen happen to others.

Addiction is a flaw of the weak

Sounds like you don't work like most people chemically.

Addiction, true addiction is not something you can deal with alone, if at all.
First you have to want to deal with it, then you need the help to deal with it for when withdrawal kicks in and your body tries to betray you.
Then you need to stay away from temptation. People like to piss on those that have had a drug problem while munching on their Macca's that they could give up whenever they want etc

The fact is a lot of this shit hits us below the rational level and some of it, hits some harder than others based on genetics

 

[Deep]

Sounds like you don't work like most people chemically.

Addiction, true addiction is not something you can deal with alone, if at all.
First you have to want to deal with it, then you need the help to deal with it for when withdrawal kicks in and your body tries to betray you.
Then you need to stay away from temptation. People like to piss on those that have had a drug problem while munching on their Macca's that they could give up whenever they want etc

The fact is a lot of this shit hits us below the rational level and some of it, hits some harder than others based on genetics

So consider myself lucky and feel bad for the people like Ben Cousins?

 

[Gralin]

So consider myself lucky and feel bad for the people like Ben Cousins?

Maybe grow up a bit and realise your experiences are not the entire world, just one view of it.

 

[Power Raid]

anyone here taken meth? what was it like? would you do it again?

 

[radiojake]

anyone here taken meth? what was it like? would you do it again?

I have

I had fun

Probably

But very infrequently - probably 20-30 times over past ten years

I dont consider myself a user in the way people think of that term

 

[the_interloper]

I'm sure there are, but they would be the minority. Not condoning their use of it but chances are it will come back to bite them in the face at some point. Whether they trip up and lose a job over it (ie fail a roadside drug test and be unable to get to work on public transport), fail a workplace test or turn to dealing to fund an increasingly expensive habit.

I think the majority would be functioning users to be honest, a lot of people can use it casually and not be on a street corner sucking dick for their next hit.

 

[Power Raid]

I have

I had fun

Probably

But very infrequently - probably 20-30 times over past ten years

I dont consider myself a user in the way people think of that term

what is the come down like? is it like pills or LSD which can cause a real flat spot two or three days later?

 

[Gough]

I've never tried it, I don't trust myself.

 

[William Wonka]

One's currently in jail for unpaid speeding fines he couldnt pay

I would bet its a whole lot more than unpaid fines hes locked up for.
Anything under tens of thousands of dollars and the sherrifs department wont bother actively chasing (unless you happen to be parked in front of them for instance) and when they do collect on them they will take your car/house/possesions to reclaim the amount owed before they send even you to court.
If you have SFA and end up in court the judge will almost certainly direct you to repay your fines with community service (an option available from the start btw.).

It costs the taxpayer a couple of hundred dollars a day to lock someone up and the courts like to keep custodial sentences for criminals (if you are really speeding then you can and should be locked up for dangerous driving- but this is for the deadly act itself not failing to pay fines.)

You can of course always stick your finger up at them and choose to serve time in lieu of payment but considering a years detention will wipe almost $40,000 of fines your cousin must have a pretty heavy lead foot.

 

[Run n Spread]

What is rehab thou? I agree possession should not = prison but the push just send them to rehab means to what end?

Rehab has a very high failure rate. What is it? How does it justify its workings and procedures? And does it even work?

If we were serious on drugs where people test positive rather than dragging them through the criminal justice system, the focus should be on rehabilitation in remote camps (perhaps a farm) away from society, away from drugs and negative influences. When they have completed rehab (which is 12 months for meth) and provided full details of their supplier, then and only then can they return to society.

Half agree. For all rehab talk if someone is addicted to something they simply need to get off it, away from it and dry out for a period until it is out of their system and any physical dependence is weakened.

But shoving them on a farm is a form of incarceration. (all be it minimum security).You would need the Legal System to enforce it.

 

[Power Raid]

What is rehab thou? I agree possession should not = prison but the push just send them to rehab means to what end?

Rehab has a very high failure rate. What is it? How does it justify its workings and procedures? And does it even work?



Half agree. For all rehab talk if someone is addicted to something they simply need to get off it, away from it and dry out for a period until it is out of their system and any physical dependence is weakened.

But shoving them on a farm is a form of incarceration. (all be it minimum security).You would need the Legal System to enforce it.

firstly my example is about dealing with the symptom of the problem which is drug abuse rather than addressing the root cause. I will raise a solution for the root cause toward the end.

Secondly I believe what would really work from a social and health perspective won't work as it impinges beyond the civil liberties of what is accepted in Australia. Unfortunately these competing forces are incompatible and thus by trying to strike the right balance we end up with a compromised outcome.

In a "tough" example of dealing with drug abuse it would need a few elements 1) the appreciation that rehab takes time and it is believed that meth rehab take 12 months (not 3-6 months for heavier heroin addiction) 2) change of environment away from temptations is critical for types of addiction 3) provide meaningful but relaxing work to take the mind off drugs (I'm thinking something like a market garden as it's in the open air, physical and requires learning 4) a healthy lifestyle to appreciate that detoxed and exercised feeling that people may value post rehab 5) and the requirement to provide the drug suppliers personal details puts an end to the black market trade.

Unfortunately removing people from life for 12 months (or life if they don't supply the dealers details) is impracticable as many have jobs, family responsibilities and impinges on civil liberties. So despite the medical evidence that rehab often fails due to the inappropriately short programs and the inability to remove people from their surroundings, it is the best we can achieve.



If we were to address the root cause rather than the symptom we would need to focus on mental health. Addiction is an issue for the wealthy, poor and in-between but for the purpose of giving an example, I will focus on the unemployed. Personally I would like to see the implementation of work for the dole and work for the pension. These programs wouldn't and shouldn't be about penalising or exploiting people or even an attempt to extract value back from welfare recipients. It is all about improving mental health, participation in society and the opportunity to engage.

I truly believe welfare, the health system, the justice system, drug abuse, mental health and community happiness are interlinked. Telling people who don't have employment to sit down, shut up, accept their place in the outer suburbs, call them lazy, giving them no hope, no purpose and no opportunity to participate in society is a recipe for trouble. The risk of mental health issues, boredom, drug abuse or other dysfunctional behaviour is extremely high in our most vulnerable parts of our society. Yet for some reason we accept their poor treatment and suffering.

 

[Paul Kersey]

What other first world countries don't have this problem? Singapore? Japan? What are they doing differently?