The Law MeToo Movement

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Antares

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Jun 19, 2017
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I'm a Seawind alt account and a troll who is threatened by everything.
 
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Antares

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Do you have more details?
What do you want specifically? I wasn't there so I can't give you a first hand account.

Facts as far as I know: Group of uni students partying at a beach house getting drunk, two males go to a room, one fully willing, the other "not sure". Oral sex ensues with the victim receiving it. Days later, the accused receives a call from the victim, who's recording the conversation; the victim starts a conversation about what happened, and this recording was used as evidence in court.

A 22 year old young man gave a questionably consensual blowjob to another, and has been charged with RAPE by the 12 man jury. Even putting all those circumstances favoring the defence aside, we live in a state where you go to jail for 4-5 years for GIVING A BLOWJOB. No penetration whatsoever, just a blowjob.
 

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Bradesmaen

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Sexual acts are considered rape, whether penetration or not... not hard to understand. This also goes towards the consent issues that are being brought up. It's clear he wasn't 100% ok with it.
 

Antares

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Sexual acts are considered rape, whether penetration or not... not hard to understand. This also goes towards the consent issues that are being brought up. It's clear he wasn't 100% ok with it.
Oh ok, so lets start charging anyone with rape for daring to perform anything against even the slightest act of resistance. People like you are brainwashed and why society today is a joke.

I wonder why Andrew Lovett got acquitted for doing something very similar, except with penetration and was explicitly told to stop. No doubt he qualifies for an exception in your inane rulebook.
 

Showbags

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This is all your subjective emotional opinion based on what you have been told. You would have to post the case for us to be able to look at it objectively and see whether he was hard done by.

Most rape cases are based purely on oral evidence (no pun intended) given by the complainant, accused and other witnesses, not actual physical evidence. The jury obviously felt that the complainant's story was reliable enough to find your friend guilty beyond reasonable doubt (not to mention the recording of the phone conversation).

Obviously the central issue was consent. Just because the complainant didn't protest or physically resist (or as you said "push his head off") doesn't necessarily mean he consented to getting head. The complainant has to give free and conscious permission either by words or conduct. Your own post suggests that the complainant was "not sure" going into it. If your friend didn't bother to seek consent before starting to give head then that is on him I'm afraid. Even if the complainant gave reluctant consent after the initial act of penetration, the fact that there wasn't consent when it started still constitutes rape.

Also the fact that alcohol was present may have played a factor in that he was too drunk to give consent (pure speculation).

There is a defence of reasonable belief that consent was present on the part of the accused. This is looked at both subjectively (did the accused himself believe consent was present) and objectively (was this belief reasonable). Clearly the jury felt that his belief was not reasonable on the facts.
 

Bradesmaen

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Oh ok, so lets start charging anyone with rape for daring to perform anything against even the slightest act of resistance. People like you are brainwashed and why society today is a joke.

I wonder why Andrew Lovett got acquitted for doing something very similar, except with penetration and was explicitly told to stop. No doubt he qualifies for an exception in your inane rulebook.
No. I grew up in a different era.

Yeah way to summarise something complex into a few words. Maybe you should read up about the case, there was more to it than that.. but hey, you clearly have some emotive attachment to this type of thing with your friend and emotions bring out the stupidity in people.
 

CheapCharlie

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Could well be a case of the guy who got the headjob later feels ashamed about it and then worries his sexuality might be viewed by other people.

Common sense would dictate that the guy would have said no, or resisted or not gone into the other room with the guy who performed the oral sex.

The more information would need some type of link to the court transcripts of evidence
 

Antares

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This is all your subjective emotional opinion based on what you have been told. You would have to post the case for us to be able to look at it objectively and see whether he was hard done by.

Most rape cases are based purely on oral evidence (no pun intended) given by the complainant, accused and other witnesses, not actual physical evidence. The jury obviously felt that the complainant's story was reliable enough to find your friend guilty beyond reasonable doubt (not to mention the recording of the phone conversation).

Obviously the central issue was consent. Just because the complainant didn't protest or physically resist (or as you said "push his head off") doesn't necessarily mean he consented to getting head. The complainant has to give free and conscious permission either by words or conduct. Your own post suggests that the complainant was "not sure" going into it. If your friend didn't bother to seek consent before starting to give head then that is on him I'm afraid. Even if the complainant gave reluctant consent after the initial act of penetration, the fact that there wasn't consent when it started still constitutes rape.

Also the fact that alcohol was present may have played a factor in that he was too drunk to give consent (pure speculation).

There is a defence of reasonable belief that consent was present on the part of the accused. This is looked at both subjectively (did the accused himself believe consent was present) and objectively (was this belief reasonable). Clearly the jury felt that his belief was not reasonable on the facts.
1. Reading difficulties? He's not my friend, I don't even know him, just mutually acquainted.
2. There's little point in bringing out the case when people like you and that idiot Bradesmaen have seemingly already made up their minds based on my "biased" and "emotional" viewpoint. I know exactly what the people on this board are like; so really I don't know what I expected.
3.
The jury obviously felt that the complainant's story was reliable enough to find your friend guilty beyond reasonable doubt
and what's that based on? Your own biased, uninformed viewpoint? How do you know it wasn't a reverse of 12 angry men, with most of them reluctantly convinced by one fierce, angry harpy that he's guilty? They deliberated for 3 days.

4.
Obviously the central issue was consent. Just because the complainant didn't protest or physically resist (or as you said "push his head off") doesn't necessarily mean he consented to getting head
and this, ladies and gentlemen, is why society is falling. With questionably consensual blowjobs receiving the same charge as forcefully pinning a woman down and penetrating her, it's only a matter of time before looking at people funny will make you liable for sexual assault. Already happened in Sweden.

5.
Your own post suggests that the complainant was "not sure" going into it
and yet, he went into the room with him. Strike 1. He let his pants be pulled down. Strike 2. He didn't push the guy's head back when being sucked. Strike 3. He even said it felt good while testifying in court before quickly backtracking.

But hey, as long as he says he was violated a week later, that merits sending a 22 year old university student to jail for 5 years. What a world.
 

Antares

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No. I grew up in a different era.

Yeah way to summarise something complex into a few words. Maybe you should read up about the case, there was more to it than that.. but hey, you clearly have some emotive attachment to this type of thing with your friend and emotions bring out the stupidity in people.
Sure is easy to claim something is complex without going into even the slightest bit of detail eh? Stupid people like yourself don't like making arguments so you just tell people to "do the research" and saying they're stupid.
 

Bradesmaen

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lel, someone is just very emotional right now.

It literally took 50 seconds to do the research on the Lovett case. I mean if you want to b*tch, moan and cry at all of it, go ahead. But try to discuss it without being emotive and attached to a particular case and you might see why cases like this are more common.

I mean, why are people complaining about being raped right? they should be happy to get some? Am I doing this right?
 

Bradesmaen

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Sure am.

Even with a strong, emotional viewpoint, everything I've said still more plausible than anything a cretin like yourself can come up with.
And that sums up your posting and view on this case, straight into insults with anyone who disagrees with you.
 

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Antares

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And that sums up your posting and view on this case, straight into insults with anyone who disagrees with you.
and yet even with this seemingly emotional viewpoint, you still side with the contrary, and you're completely incapable of backing yourself up. You were also the first to bring the insults.

At least with my insults, I'm correct about you.
 

Bradesmaen

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and yet even with this seemingly emotional viewpoint, you still side with the contrary, and you're completely incapable of backing yourself up. You were also the first to bring the insults.

At least with my insults, I'm correct about you.
Incapable of backing myself up? I just want to make people do their own research for once. Sick of people getting all emotional and then asking to provide links. You have google, you have the internet, do your own research before you post uninformed bullshit. If you did this during school, you'd get an F for failing to reference any material to support your opinion.

Go back to your main account.
 

Antares

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Incapable of backing myself up? I just want to make people do their own research for once. Sick of people getting all emotional and then asking to provide links. You have google, you have the internet, do your own research before you post uninformed bullshit. If you did this during school, you'd get an F for failing to reference any material to support your opinion.

Go back to your main account.
You are completely incapable of backing yourself up, and you're only further proving what a failure you are.

I said the Lovett case was similar, you could've challenged that, but instead resorted to the old "do your research" fallacy. Your input to this thread has been worthless and you clearly don't have the intellectual capacity to discuss such matters. Stick to sport.
 

Bradesmaen

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You are completely incapable of backing yourself up, and you're only further proving what a failure you are.

I said the Lovett case was similar, you could've challenged that, but instead resorted to the old "do your research" fallacy. Your input to this thread has been worthless and you clearly don't have the intellectual capacity to discuss such matters. Stick to sport.
Fine if you don't want to do your own research, here it is.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...ot-guilty-of-rape-charges-20110725-1hwii.html

Mr Grace had described as "preposterous" the woman's evidence that she had tried to text her ex-boyfriend for help while having sex with Lovett. He said the phone records did not make this possible.
Things like that are what makes and breaks a case. She lied, therefore it is quite easy for a jury to acquit someone on consent issues.

Honestly, what is it with people these days and being unable to do the slightest bit of research into a topic? I remember when I was at school you spent weeks researching before writing a paper. Shame the standards have plummeted.
 

Antares

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Fine if you don't want to do your own research, here it is.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...ot-guilty-of-rape-charges-20110725-1hwii.html



Things like that are what makes and breaks a case. She lied, therefore it is quite easy for a jury to acquit someone on consent issues.
and how does that make it completely dissimilar to what I outlined in the OP and some of the following posts? It's still a rape case revolving around the question of consent.

Honestly, what is it with people these days and being unable to do the slightest bit of research into a topic? I remember when I was at school you spent weeks researching before writing a paper. Shame the standards have plummeted.
and here is an example of you getting desperate and going out on an unrelated tangent. Pathetic, you're a complete failure and a waste of time.

I'll be waiting for posts from other people now.
 

Bradesmaen

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and how does that make it completely dissimilar to what I outlined in the OP and some of the following posts? It's still a rape case revolving around the question of consent.


and here is an example of you getting desperate and going out on an unrelated tangent. Pathetic, you're a complete failure and a waste of time.

I'll be waiting for posts from other people now.
Here I'll fetch you a box of tissues.

Basically, you have provided very little detail other than heresay. I provided actual detail from a case that is actually different from what you provided.

QED. I'm so upset you wont read my posts, what ever shall I do with my life... maybe if you weren't so antagonistic and 100% about everything, with some flexibility. Alas this isn't the case. No skin off my nose though as you're the 2% in the world.
 

Cluggage

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Goes to court, defence's case clearly stronger than prosecution's, victim changes his story twice. Jury then somehow deliberates for 3 days until the guilty verdict came in just 20 minutes ago. Now a 22 year old boy with a promising future probably goes to jail for 5 years.
(Along with your viewpoint that there was a very reasonable doubt that the accused blew him without consent)

Considering these factors, along with the jury verdict being unanimous, I believe there has to be more to the case that you aren't telling us.
 

mattf83

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Whatever, mutual acquaintance then.

Got anything worthwhile to add?
If 2 parties enter a room and engage in a sexual act, they are both capable of communicating their lack of consent and one of the parties decides they are not a willing participant but chooses not to communicate their lack of consent, then in my opinion it shouldn't be rape.

But as mentioned above, I doubt you or therefore us have all the pertinent details
 

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