The Law MeToo Movement

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Sweet Jesus

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Something Sweet Jesus seems unable to comprehend.
Why tag me if you haven't advanced your argument? Who is that meant to impress?

The objective of #metoo is to condemn and prevent sexual assault/harassment, thereby creating safer spaces for women. There's no rational reason for those concerns to apply only in situations where the abuse is perpetrated by men. If the objective is to protect women, that should apply also in situations where women are the abusers.

Your argument amounts to "nah because the patriarchy". Maybe don't tag me again until you can improve on this flaccid, intellectually vacant rubbish.
 
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Sweet Jesus

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No it isnt. They specifically target and call out sexual assault FROM MEN ABUSING THE PATRIARCHY.
Says who? Is this simply your assertion?

To what end? What is the objective beyond that, if not discouraging that abuse and creating safer spaces? What is the rational reason for ignoring the victims of female abusers?

Can you make your case instead of simply using bold and underline like that does the trick? It's inadequate.

Like I said, your argument boils down to "nah because the patriarchy". Do you have anything more intelligent to say than this?

And they dont just focus on women survivors. Children and male survivors are fair game too.
Great, so I guess they can consider victims of female abusers too?

Why isn't that "fair game"?
 
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Carringbush2010

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No, it's both.

It's the patriarchy that let these blokes get away with it openly for so long.
In other news water is wet, however you want to term it.

Patriarchy 'allows' for these bad happenings but is not the cause.

Do you have a solution, apart from ridding society of a hierarchy (patriarchy)?
 

Carringbush2010

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Why do we need a hierarchy, and even if we do, why do do we need one based on gender?

Feminists don't want to replace the patriarchy with a matriarchy, they want equality.
Umm right......

You understand the meaning of hierarchy in society yes? You understand hierarchy in households and workplaces yes? You understand that hierarchy provides order and organisation in those settings right?

No hierarchy = anarchy, you understand that right?

This is the lack of understanding from metoo advocates and the misuse of the term patriarchy.

Patriarchy (hierarchy) is NOT designed to be oppressive, it's designed to be protective and guiding. Society as a whole cannot function without hierarchy.
 

Malifice

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Umm right......

You understand the meaning of hierarchy in society yes? You understand hierarchy in households and workplaces yes? You understand that hierarchy provides order and organisation in those settings right?

No hierarchy = anarchy, you understand that right?

This is the lack of understanding from metoo advocates and the misuse of the term patriarchy.

Patriarchy (hierarchy) is NOT designed to be oppressive, it's designed to be protective and guiding. Society as a whole cannot function without hierarchy.
I know what a hierarchy is mate.

Im saying why do we need one (instead of a collective for example where everyone is equal) and (presuming we do need one) why on earth should it be based on gender (favouring men).
 

Malifice

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Says who? Is this simply your assertion?
Says everyone! It's literally what the whole movement is about, and has been from the start.

Seeing as you cant seem to be able to use Google and type 'metoo' and 'patriarchy' in a search bar to educate yourself, I took the liberty for you. Now take your pick of the following articles and read up:

#MeToo: Is this the beginning of the end of Patriarchy? (anupartha.com)

Speaking up in the Age of #MeToo and Persistent Patriarchy or what Can we Learn from an Elevator Incident about Anti-Feminist Backlash - Simona Sharoni, 2018 (sagepub.com)

#MeToo Confronts the Patriarchy - by Marie Fortune ‘76 M.Div. | Reflections (yale.edu)

The age of patriarchy: how an unfashionable idea became a rallying cry for feminism today | Feminism | The Guardian

Did the patriarchy lose a battle? The #MeToo movement. | by Thomas Widrow | Pynx Media (Archive) | Medium

Iran’s #MeToo movement challenges patriarchy and western stereotypes | openDemocracy

How #MeToo revealed the central rift within feminism today | #MeToo movement | The Guardian

Patriarchy Deflated on JSTOR

The Collective Power of #MeToo | Dissent Magazine

The whole point of the movement is [victims of abuse] by [male offenders] enabled by [the patriarchy] speaking out about the abuse, and calling out the abusers.

The Weinsteins, Cosbys and Spaceys hid behind and took advantage of the patriarchy to commit their offences, and get away with them for so long. By publicly naming them, it demonstrates that disempowered victims do have a voice in the face of the patriarchy, and empowers other survivors who are too scared to speak out, to do so.

You're now either being deliberately obtuse, or alternatively you're someone who just doesnt understand the movement, despite having it explained to you like a 6 year old literally multiple times.

Which is it?
 

Malifice

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Patriarchy (hierarchy) is NOT designed to be oppressive, it's designed to be protective and guiding.
I dont want to be 'protected and guided' by old men, and neither does anyone else.

Why the fu** should they run the show? Just because they have penises?

Question for you - are you a man?

Society as a whole cannot function without hierarchy.
You would say that:

Right-wing politics supports the view that certain social orders and hierarchies are inevitable, natural, normal, or desirable, typically supporting this position on the basis of natural law, economics, or tradition.
Right-wing politics - Wikipedia
 

Sweet Jesus

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You think this Google search makes the case? Are you really that witless?

Of course you're going to find articles mentioning "the patriarchy" if you include that as a search term. What point do you think that makes?

Do a search for "Obama" and "fake birth certificate". OMG that proves it!

The Weinsteins, Cosbys and Spaceys hid behind and took advantage of the patriarchy to commit their offences, and get away with them for so long. By publicly naming them, it demonstrates that disempowered victims do have a voice in the face of the patriarchy, and empowers other survivors who are too scared to speak out, to do so.
That's great but it doesn't preclude those concerns also applying to female abusers. There's no rational reason for that.

Unless it's purely ideological i.e. taking only men to task? On the other hand, if there is a more clear practical objective - discouraging abuse and creating safer spaces where abuse doesn't occur - then there is no rational reason to ignore abuse when it's perpetrated by women.

Once again, your argument boils down to "nah because the patriarchy". Those aren't magic words that you can simply recite in lieu of a real argument.

You're now either being deliberately obtuse, or alternatively you're someone who just doesnt understand the movement, despite having it explained to you like a 6 year old literally multiple times.

Which is it?
This makes no argument.

You're fond of making assertions you can't support or demonstrate. It's inadequate and it doesn't work when the other person is smarter than you.
 
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Sweet Jesus

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You're quite intellectually lazy.

I know what a hierarchy is mate.

Im saying why do we need one (instead of a collective for example where everyone is equal)
If "everyone is equal", who has the power to establish and enforce the law?

Who collects taxes and decides how to spend them?

Or should we abolish money as well to ensure no one accrues more wealth than anyone else?

Would people be allowed to own land or property? I mean, that could produce inequality so we better not allow that, right?

How would you incentivise innovation, free enterprise and investment in this wonderful collective where everyone is equal? Why would anyone bother working their arse for years to develop the expertise to produce goods we need? I mean, why would someone bother becoming an immunologist or a vaccinologist when they'll just be "equal" to someone who doesn't work at all? In your fantasy, what's the incentive to do that work?

Why should we all be "equal" to the dumbest, laziest person in the room? Who on earth wants that? In order to preserve this "equality", how should we reward hard work and the development of expertise? Or do we not bother with that?

I guess we shouldn't keep score in football games either? That might lead to a hierarchy and we can't have that.
 
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Carringbush2010

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I know what a hierarchy is mate.

Im saying why do we need one (instead of a collective for example where everyone is equal) and (presuming we do need one) why on earth should it be based on gender (favouring men).
Oh dear!

Do we need a boss at work? Or do we just work on the fly letting all and sundry call the shots? How about we just abolish government and have an indisputable liberal society? You don't reckon that'd lead to anarchy?

How about we just have kids and not guide them, 'righto kids you're on your own - free to do whatever', no parents guiding them through life?

We don't need a hierarchy? Is that your ideal?

How'd ya think that'd alleviate physical and emotional abuse against women?

Do you know what the definition of hierarchy is, do you know what the purpose of hierarchy is?

'Do we need one'? lol.
 

Carringbush2010

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I dont want to be 'protected and guided' by old men, and neither does anyone else.

Why the fu** should they run the show? Just because they have penises?

Question for you - are you a man?



You would say that:



Right-wing politics - Wikipedia
Wow! Just wow!

This almost the same level melt as a number 37 melt claiming the Taliban is a more palatable govt. than the scotty one.

You are a mod, that means you're in a hierarchy making sure that all your posters are posting within the rules right? So yes we need a hierarchy!

How'd ya think BF would operate without you and all the other mods and the chief admin in that hierarchy? It wouldn't even exist would it.

So yes I would and do say that because hierarchy is necessary, absolutely necessary! without you and the other hierarchy we'd have all sorts emotional vomit spewing all over the real estate of BF.

I'm astounded you can't see that. You're blinded by your noble sentiment and moreso by the noise like this person who has totally no idea what it would mean without hierarchy.


Excerpt from the article, which she has a strong belief. This is what she said on Q&A

“So we have to dismantle patriarchy. Does that sound like a pipedream? It has to be a reality. It's the year 2019 … and we're still talking about people being beaten to death.”

In short whether it's a matriarchy, patriarchy or a nonbinaryarchy - someone(s) has to 'run the show'.

Her sentiment is noble but it's a hiding to nothing to rid humankind of patriarchy for obvious reasons. She views patriarchy as the problem when it's not, it's the perpetrators that are the problem.

Hierarchy is absolutely necessary.
 

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Malifice

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You think this Google search makes the case? Are you really that witless?

Of course you're going to find articles mentioning "the patriarchy" if you include that as a search term. What point do you think that makes?

Do a search for "Obama" and "fake birth certificate". OMG that proves it!

That's great but it doesn't preclude those concerns also applying to female abusers. There's no rational reason for that.

Unless it's purely ideological i.e. taking only men to task? On the other hand, if there is a more clear practical objective - discouraging abuse and creating safer spaces where abuse doesn't occur - then there is no rational reason to ignore abuse when it's perpetrated by women.

Once again, your argument boils down to "nah because the patriarchy". Those aren't magic words that you can simply recite in lieu of a real argument.

This makes no argument.

You're fond of making assertions you can't support or demonstrate. It's inadequate and it doesn't work when the other person is smarter than you.
Mate you're talking utter sh*t. #metoo has nothing to do with female abusers. That's just the reality. That you don't agree is meaningless.
 

sorted

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I dont want to be 'protected and guided' by old men, and neither does anyone else.

Why the fu** should they run the show? Just because they have penises?
When we acknowledge the 'traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and pay our respect to their elders past and present' - are we not acknowledging and preserving the tradition of old men who run the show? Why do we promote such antiquated beliefs in our modern society?
 

Malifice

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When we acknowledge the 'traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and pay our respect to their elders past and present' - are we not acknowledging and preserving the tradition of old men who run the show? Why do we promote such antiquated beliefs in our modern society?
You're aware women can be elders right?

Nice strawman though.
 

Carringbush2010

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So why is women getting legally attached to men seen as a cure for the bad behaviour of some men?
Not sure what your point is here, could you please explain. In any case women are not and should not be responsible for bad behaviour of men, unless they're a guardian of that bad behaving person.
 

Sweet Jesus

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Mate you're talking utter sh*t. #metoo has nothing to do with female abusers. That's just the reality. That you don't agree is meaningless.
Again, you make no argument. I didn't realise you were so basic.

#metoo has everything to do with preventing abuse and creating safer spaces. There's no rational reason for precluding abuse perpetrated by women.

You have no response to that beyond "nah because the patriarchy".

You can recite some stock phrases but that's the extent of it. You're lazy AF and obviously limited. I've got your number now.
 
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Carringbush2010

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Right-wing politics - Wikipedia
Slightly off topic, but without hierarchy there is only chaos.

Regardless of what wiki says, just because society functions with hierarchy that does not mean society is 'right wing'

Biggest load of bullsh*t I've ever read. If that definition is indeed correct and of popular belief then I guess the right wing is indeed sensible.

The definition of right wing that I'm lead to believe is fringe w**kers that are all about me me me and supremacy over all other cultures and races. That is not sensible.

I am certainly not right wing, I just have practical views and am in fact all in favour of progressive movement so long as the progress is practical.

The metoo movement is indeed noble but is not practical, it's barking at clouds. This movement should be focusing on perpetrators, which it does, but hierarchy is not the cloud to bark at.
 

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