Politics Miami; and the tragedies of neoliberalism

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spinynorman

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 1, 2014
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At the moment, with little hope for any further survivors to be pulled from the rubble, it appears around 160 people may have died following the collapse of a twelve-storey building in Miami. We know that in 2018 significant structural damage was identified in the building, with a recommendation for significant repairs to be carried out. But in the subsequent three years the work was not done, and now many people are now needlessly dead.

There are parallels with the Grenfell tragedy in London in 2017, where 72 people died due to the building's cladding and inadequate fire safety precautions, with warnings about the building's problems falling on deaf ears for over a decade before the tragedy.

In Australia we've had our own near-tragedies with structural flaws in our buildings, with Sydney's Mascot Towers buildings evacuated after cracks were noticed in the building's structure, and with residents unable to return two years on, many have been left with nothing.

To return to Florida, many have made the obvious link between this collapse and the Government's approach to deregulation.



This isn't necessarily new. Obvious recent examples show how late stage capitalism has compromised our safety when it comes to climate change and public health. This is another example of how the neoliberal system and its sheer focus on short term financial gain for some leaves us all worse off, and kills. While polls indicate people are well to the left of government economic policy, the wealthy world is nonetheless dominated by right-wing governments. Notionally left-wing parties have not shifted from Third Way liberalism, with leaders such as Macron and Trudeau as wedded to the capitalist project as their conservative counterparts, and more radical socialist options such as Sanders or Corbyn were passed over for centrists in Biden or Starmer.

We appear to be limping on into numerous crises and disasters. Are we going to do anything about it?
 
At the moment, with little hope for any further survivors to be pulled from the rubble, it appears around 160 people may have died following the collapse of a twelve-storey building in Miami. We know that in 2018 significant structural damage was identified in the building, with a recommendation for significant repairs to be carried out. But in the subsequent three years the work was not done, and now many people are now needlessly dead.

There are parallels with the Grenfell tragedy in London in 2017, where 72 people died due to the building's cladding and inadequate fire safety precautions, with warnings about the building's problems falling on deaf ears for over a decade before the tragedy.

In Australia we've had our own near-tragedies with structural flaws in our buildings, with Sydney's Mascot Towers buildings evacuated after cracks were noticed in the building's structure, and with residents unable to return two years on, many have been left with nothing.

To return to Florida, many have made the obvious link between this collapse and the Government's approach to deregulation.



This isn't necessarily new. Obvious recent examples show how late stage capitalism has compromised our safety when it comes to climate change and public health. This is another example of how the neoliberal system and its sheer focus on short term financial gain for some leaves us all worse off, and kills. While polls indicate people are well to the left of government economic policy, the wealthy world is nonetheless dominated by right-wing governments. Notionally left-wing parties have not shifted from Third Way liberalism, with leaders such as Macron and Trudeau as wedded to the capitalist project as their conservative counterparts, and more radical socialist options such as Sanders or Corbyn were passed over for centrists in Biden or Starmer.

We appear to be limping on into numerous crises and disasters. Are we going to do anything about it?

A couple of buildings falling over is the least of our problems if thé socialists got in charge.

covid and Chernobyl were created in socialist utopias.
 

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A couple of buildings falling over is the least of our problems if thé socialists got in charge.

covid and Chernobyl were created in socialist utopias.

Nations with communist governments such as China, Vietnam and Cuba had among the most successful Covid responses in the world.

Chernobyl occurred several decades ago in a country that doesn't exist anymore. It was a pivotal moment in the collapse of a failing state, and represented an enormous failure of its structures in dealing with an emergency. That more closely resembles the United States today than anything else.
 
A couple of buildings falling over is the least of our problems if thé socialists got in charge.

covid and Chernobyl were created in socialist utopias.
These kinds of apartment building collapses are regular occurrences in China

 
The lack of responsibility under socialism leads to disasters.

the lack of Regulation in libertarian small government capitalism leads to disasters.

the systems we have in the west are largely pretty good. Infrastructure and building collapses are extremely rare these days and only happen because the rules in place have been ignored with criminal negligence.
 
The lack of responsibility under socialism leads to disasters.

the lack of Regulation in capitalism leads to disasters.
It wasn’t lack of regulation that caused the Miami collapse. The owners had a structural engineers report and more than enough time to fix the issue, but didn’t (usually because people on the body corporate stall or disagree with the solution). This is common in high rise apartment blocks, which is why you should always be very cautious when buying one.
 
It wasn’t lack of regulation that caused the Miami collapse. The owners had a structural engineers report and more than enough time to fix the issue, but didn’t (usually because people on the body corporate stall or disagree with the solution). This is common in high rise apartment blocks, which is why you should always be very cautious when buying one.
So the owners have either broken the law or there is a lack of regulation to force thé situation to be resolved in a timely matter. its one or the other.
 
So the owners have either broken the law or there is a lack of regulation to force thé situation to be resolved in a timely matter. its one or the other.
Yes ultimately the body corporate will be liable. The structural engineer may be liable as well if they could have condemned the building but didn’t for whatever reason.
 
At the moment, with little hope for any further survivors to be pulled from the rubble, it appears around 160 people may have died following the collapse of a twelve-storey building in Miami. We know that in 2018 significant structural damage was identified in the building, with a recommendation for significant repairs to be carried out. But in the subsequent three years the work was not done, and now many people are now needlessly dead.

There are parallels with the Grenfell tragedy in London in 2017, where 72 people died due to the building's cladding and inadequate fire safety precautions, with warnings about the building's problems falling on deaf ears for over a decade before the tragedy.

In Australia we've had our own near-tragedies with structural flaws in our buildings, with Sydney's Mascot Towers buildings evacuated after cracks were noticed in the building's structure, and with residents unable to return two years on, many have been left with nothing.

To return to Florida, many have made the obvious link between this collapse and the Government's approach to deregulation.



This isn't necessarily new. Obvious recent examples show how late stage capitalism has compromised our safety when it comes to climate change and public health. This is another example of how the neoliberal system and its sheer focus on short term financial gain for some leaves us all worse off, and kills. While polls indicate people are well to the left of government economic policy, the wealthy world is nonetheless dominated by right-wing governments. Notionally left-wing parties have not shifted from Third Way liberalism, with leaders such as Macron and Trudeau as wedded to the capitalist project as their conservative counterparts, and more radical socialist options such as Sanders or Corbyn were passed over for centrists in Biden or Starmer.

We appear to be limping on into numerous crises and disasters. Are we going to do anything about it?


You are drawing several long bows - from a building falling down in Miami, to other buildings having tragedies, then a huge leap to the faults of neoliberalism.

You seem to be claiming that deregulation deriving from late stage capitalism such as on climate change and public health has compromised our safety. I would argue that there has been a massive introduction of new authoritarian regulation justified by coronavirus and climate change - in the name of our safety but actually to the benefit of those in power and the huge multinational corporations.
 

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It wasn’t lack of regulation that caused the Miami collapse. The owners had a structural engineers report and more than enough time to fix the issue, but didn’t (usually because people on the body corporate stall or disagree with the solution). This is common in high rise apartment blocks, which is why you should always be very cautious when buying one.

You're right, this definitely doesn't sound like anything we as a society need to be concerned about, and certainly not an indictment on a system that this could be described of.
 
You're right, this definitely doesn't sound like anything we as a society need to be concerned about, and certainly not an indictment on a system that this could be described of.
If you know of any regulatory remedies or different economic systems that prevent concrete cancer, I’d love to hear it.
 
Nations with communist governments such as China, Vietnam and Cuba had among the most successful Covid responses in the world.

Chernobyl occurred several decades ago in a country that doesn't exist anymore. It was a pivotal moment in the collapse of a failing state, and represented an enormous failure of its structures in dealing with an emergency. That more closely resembles the United States today than anything else.
They are doing well at constraining Covid because they deny their citizens human rights and have thé least regard for mental well being. Great for containing a virus but terrible for everything else.

the virus also only exists because of their inept system which has bizarre Targets to incentivise leaders that is not aligned with human well being and a properly functioning society. This is exactly what happened with Chernobyl.

you want to focus and overemphasise the weaknesses of capitalism to push an agenda whilst completely ignoring the much bigger weaknesses of the alternatives.

profit should definitely not be the primary motive And in capitalist societies it isn’t. Most capitalist societies believe in human and consumer rights even if they don’t push it as much as I would like. But centrally planned socialist governments do not. They believe in the state rather than the individual. And as a result come up with bizarre incentives that are not aligned with human well being.

The Worlds greatest poverty event, the worlds greatest nuclear disaster, the worlds greatest murderous purge and now the worlds greatest pandemic have all been created in authoritarian systems based on socialist ideals.

capitalism can’t get near those amazing achievements.
 
Lol the never-ending US wars on nations such as Iraq were pretty impressive, champ.

Slavery, colonialism, the First World War, so much more.

The world's greatest nuclear disaster would be the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The world's worst famine would, yes, either be the Chinese during the Great Leap Forward or the Indian famines at the hands of the British. The world's greatest murderous purge was likely the colonisation of the Americas by the European powers, and surely a contender for worst pandemic. Bizarre to claim Covid would be that, even if one is to accept the questionable claim that it is the fault of communism, it isn't yet close to the Black Death, Spanish flu or even AIDS.

Anyway, it was of course not suggested by anyone here that the solution to the First World's problems lie with following China (we're not in anything like a comparable position as to where China was in 1949). But of course, "we can't have good things" isn't a particularly inspiring argument so better to compare with developing nations. We can afford to destroy third world countries, we can even afford to let Jeff Bezos have a joy ride in space, but we apparently have to accept building standards that will purge a few dozen or so ordinary people at a time.
 
Regulation is important and it's benefits often invisible. It can get inefficient but so are many other things. It is not just red tape. It is value add. Every time you walk into a building in Australia you don't have to wonder if it will fall down or pay for an inspection just in case you think it might. The fact that it is safe is something you just get.
 
Mate in the US said that while his wife was doing her civil engineering training, her supervisor said 'make sure if you're designing anything for Miami you do it to double normal strength capacity because plenty of companies there use sea water in the concrete.'

Make of that what you will, not sure if it's relevant to the current issue, but it may well be.

And, FWIW, though perhaps not related to the above, couldn't agree more on the thrust of the OP, spinynorman. :thumbsu:
 

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