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Michael Apeness......

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wayToGo_ said:
Ok now I get it, you just like to argue without any substance provided. We beat Sydney (twice), West Coast, Geelong, Western Bulldogs, North Melbourne, Adelaide, GWS and Richmond (once) last year. All of the finalists last year and this year (except Hawks). But let me guess because we didn't beat Hawthorn, our record against good teams was ordinary?
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6 out of the 8 wins you just named happened in the first 8 rounds when we played Pavlich, Taberner and Clarke together.

In the latter half of the season when we dropped Taberner, we lost to Hawthorn, West Coast and North, and only kicked 90 points or more 3 times.
 
ydraw said:
Hawthorn always play 2 dedicated key forwards and a spare ruckman. Dunno what to say if you don't consider Gunston a key forward...the mind boggles.
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I think your view is too simplistic. A lot of teams have different game plans. Hawthorn has a very dynamic gameplan which involves lots of running and finding space. Gunston is not your traditional CHF or FF.

Adelaide's team looks very "tall" on paper but a lot of their attack is based on quick transition from defence and getting "out the back". Look what happened when West Coast stopped their run on the weekend, their "tall" forwards were near on useless.

I think North Melbourne with Waite/Petrie/Brown are the only team which genuinely have tried to have 3 talls their for 90%+ of the game. A lot of other teams have rotated different players through.

I think it is a complete fallacy that teams need 3 tall forwards. Pressure and not letting the opposition bounce out is just as important as marking ability.
 
Kenny_01 said:
I think your view is too simplistic. A lot of teams have different game plans. Hawthorn has a very dynamic gameplan which involves lots of running and finding space. Gunston is not your traditional CHF or FF.
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He absolutely is though. I cannot fathom how you could think he's anything else. Hes 6'4". He's #1 at Hawthorn for marks inside 50, #2 for contested marks, and has won their goalkicking the last 2 years running. Where do you think he plays?
 

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ydraw said:
He absolutely is though. I cannot fathom how you could think he's anything else. He's #1 at Hawthorn for marks inside 50, #2 for contested marks, and has won their goalkicking the last 2 years running. Where do you think he plays?
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Of course he plays forward but I feel it is more of a hybrid role than your traditional FF leading out of the goal square or CHF. I feel like their forward line is multi dimensional and a lot of them can be key targets or can also play a different role in a functioning forward line. Gunston doesn't have the bulk or size of a traditional KPF and the forward line doesn't revolve around him. He is just a part of the puzzle along with Puopolo, Breust, Rioli, Sicily, etc.

I feel like we can also have a multi pronged attack next year and I don't think a forward line of Apeness, McCarthy, Fyfe, Yarran, Bennell and Walters is too short even though it wouldn't fit your criteria of having 3 talls. I feel like it is quite dangerous and most of the forward line will be able to win 1 on 1 contests. I feel like Taberner, on current form, has too many weaknesses to be in the team but I am liking how he is developing. I just think he needs to iron out some parts of his game.
 
Dunno why this is even a topic, we have been playing 3 forwards this year whenever possible
Pavlich, Taberner, Clarke or Taberner Apeness Smith or Apeness Taberner clarke or pavlich taberner smith
hell even dawson was tried forward as a third tall

sometimes griffin in place of clarke, just because clarke hasn't been a very good forward doesnt mean he hasn't been playing
 
ydraw said:
6 out of the 8 wins you just named happened in the first 8 rounds when we played Pavlich, Taberner and Clarke together.

In the latter half of the season when we dropped Taberner, we lost to Hawthorn, West Coast and North, and only kicked 90 points or more 3 times.
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You should have informed RTB. The reason we lost those games was not playing Taberner ;) In reality we were playing 1 KPF (Pavlich) all year. If you count Clarke, Griff, Hannath as KPFs then we've played 3 KPFs almost every game this year as well. But we won the last game (our only win against a finalist) when we didn't play Tabs, and had only Pav and Apeness up forward. Should we conclude that playing 2 talls is the only way we can win?

It's not about numbers of talls, it's about the mix of quality players. If we had Hogan, McCarthy plus Apeness on our list I think it's pretty obvious we'd always play 3 KPFs. But I don't think playing Tabs, Apeness and Smith OR Tabs, Apeness and Darcy Cameron is going to be any better than playing 2 of them plus a decent medium forward.

The reality is we need to recruit quality so we aren't playing 3 talls just for the sake of it. McCarthy is a must get this off season. And as much as people say he is more a 3rd tall, he won't be. He'll almost certainly be the most impactful KPF on our list and therefore will be treated by the opposition as such - just like Pav was.
 
wayToGo_ said:
You should have informed RTB. The reason we lost those games was not playing Taberner ;) .
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Someone should have. We were a 3 goal per game better side when Taberner played. Even the coaches agreed come prelim final time. Would have been handy to get a few more games into him before then.
 
wayToGo_ said:
You should have informed RTB. The reason we lost those games was not playing Taberner ;) In reality we were playing 1 KPF (Pavlich) all year. If you count Clarke, Griff, Hannath as KPFs then we've played 3 KPFs almost every game this year as well. But we won the last game (our only win against a finalist) when we didn't play Tabs, and had only Pav and Apeness up forward. Should we conclude that playing 2 talls is the only way we can win?

It's not about numbers of talls, it's about the mix of quality players.
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It's about both. If you only play 2 talls, your talls get double teamed by the opposition defenders. The main effect of playing Taberner is that Pavlich has kicked more goals when Taberner plays (because sides can't afford to play 2 on Pavlich when there are 3 talls in the forward line to match up on.)

Every team plays 3 for this reason. It's a formula that's worked for 100 years and it didn't magically change lately.
 
ydraw said:
Yeah and he's consistently coached the lowest scoring teams in the league.

It's almost like every other coach in the history of Australian football is right and he isn't.
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You need to have three dominant talls to play them. Otherwise it hinders the team when you could have a small forward/mid crumbing.
 

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jedi mind tricks said:
Exactly

But lets just throw 3 or more key forwards on the park because other teams do.
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Lol.

Yeah the Freo way has been working so well, all those other teams just don't understand. :rolleyes: Tabs wasn't dominating in the first half of last year either but the extra tall meant the oppositions tall defenders each had to be accountable.
 
Unique Name said:
Lol.

Yeah the Freo way has been working so well, all those other teams just don't understand. :rolleyes: Tabs wasn't dominating in the first half of last year either but the extra tall meant the oppositions tall defenders each had to be accountable.
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Nope

Freo have struggled to hitthe scoreboard but you have Tabs Ape and Tanner forward and you watch the opposition waltz the ball out of defense.

They also need to be competent enough to take the pack.marks and kick enough goals.
 
jedi mind tricks said:
Nope

Freo have struggled to hitthe scoreboard but you have Tabs Ape and Tanner forward and you watch the opposition waltz the ball out of defense.

They also need to be competent enough to take the pack.marks and kick enough goals.
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Agree cant just play tall for the sick of it , i rather have one extra utilities player like fyfe or bennell do swing forward, add flexibility , i saw peel this season, when they play too tall they get done with team like subiaco, west perth , south freo.
I dont want to compare afl team , just take subiaco as examples got shit ruck men , only genuine key forward h.shaperd yet on top of the ladder .
 
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meima said:
Agree cant just play tall for the sick of it , i rather have one extra utilities player like fyfe or bennell do swing forward, add flexibility , i saw peel this season, when they play too tall they get done with team like subiaco, west perth , south freo.
I dont want to compare afl team , just take subiaco as examples got shit ruck men , only genuine key forward h.shaperd yet on top of the ladder .
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Yep for sure
 
Depends on definition of talls. Apeness is crash the pack and contested mark type. McCarthy is a lead up. Taberner is a lead up the wings type.

We can't just get a Darcy Cameron or Mason Shaw for the sake of it. They're not upgrades on anyone, so they're wasted picks.

If rumours of Kersten are true he is much like McCarthy IMO. Those 2 and Apeness then become our forward line with depth in Taberner. But I wouldn't chase Kersten either as he's much of a muchness. It doesn't matter how many spuds you put in the shed if they're still a spud.

Our real pressing need is quality backs.

That all said likely Apeness, McCarthy, Taberner, Yarran, Walters and rotating 6th forward isn't too bad. Many potential players that can kick 30+. What we really need is someone to step up and become a 50 goal a season player. All have potential but I wouldn't bet on anyone ever doing it.
 
Obviously a forward line of Hogan, McCarthy, Apeness, Yarran, Walters and a floating 6th becomes deadly. Especially after a year together.
Taberner made progress this year, but didn't break out as such and hence his position is definitely up for grabs.
If no Hogan maybe Lobb. If neither then Taberner gets a run through default and had 1 last year to demand selection and a contract otherwise we go again in 2018 in trying to find class.
 
Cobbler said:
Obviously a forward line of Hogan, McCarthy, Apeness, Yarran, Walters and a floating 6th becomes deadly. Especially after a year together.
Taberner made progress this year, but didn't break out as such and hence his position is definitely up for grabs.
If no Hogan maybe Lobb. If neither then Taberner gets a run through default and had 1 last year to demand selection and a contract otherwise we go again in 2018 in trying to find class.
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Too early to honestly tell, lets wait and see what the 2017 forwards deliver first. Tabs came from the rookie list so he has
already shown improvement, one thing is for sure, is better than Clarke, Mayne.
GWS will not want to trade with us, should get McCarthy, but forget Lobb, besides eagles will want, have more chance of getting the
deal done.
 

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