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Michael Apeness......

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jedi mind tricks said:
Well he only used 1 or 2 key forwards in some games but hey you know more than he would.
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And how's that gone for us these last few years. How'd our GF go in '13 with only 1 key forward.

Walker, McGovern, Jenkins
Kennedy, Darling, Lycett
Hawkins, Stanley, Smith
Lynch, Wright, Day
Cameron, Lobb, Patton
Petrie, Waite, Brown
Bruce, Riewoldt, McCartin
Roughhead, Gunston, Ceglar

Can't be bother listing the rest. We scored more than Carlton and Essendon this year... that's it. There is a reason 2 KPF's a 1 RuckFwd is the norm. Because it works.
 
Unique Name said:
And how's that gone for us these last few years. How'd our GF go in '13 with only 1 key forward.

Walker, McGovern, Jenkins
Kennedy, Darling, Lycett
Hawkins, Stanley, Smith
Lynch, Wright, Day
Cameron, Lobb, Patton
Petrie, Waite, Brown
Bruce, Riewoldt, McCartin
Roughhead, Gunston, Ceglar

Can't be bother listing the rest. We scored more than Carlton and Essendon this year... that's it. There is a reason 2 KPF's a 1 RuckFwd is the norm. Because it works.
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You have listed plenty of players that play more as mid types, i.e. Gunston, McGovern. We may as call Fyfe a tall then.

Also how often would Stanley and Smith play forward together? Not very often because teams would bounce out too easily.

As for Hawthorn, Rioli, Breust, Puopolo and Gunston have been playing predominantly forward this season with numerous other players rotating through. They often only have 2 talls.

I don't think it's necessarily proven that 3 talls works better. It depends a lot on personnel, ground, opposition, etc.
 

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Kenny_01 said:
You have listed plenty of players that play more as mid types, i.e. Gunston, McGovern. We may as call Fyfe a tall then.

Also how often would Stanley and Smith play forward together? Not very often because teams would bounce out too easily.

As for Hawthorn, Rioli, Breust, Puopolo and Gunston have been playing predominantly forward this season with numerous other players rotating through. They often only have 2 talls.

I don't think it's necessarily proven that 3 talls works better. It depends a lot on personnel, ground, opposition, etc.
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Gunston is a 6'4 forward not a mid. That's why he has kicked 48 goals this year. Because he has played in the forward line, not the midfield.

Geelong are somewhat unique because of how many tall players they play. Hawkins, Smith, Stanley, Biclavs, plus rotating their 3 tall backmam forward too.

McGovern is a forward I honestly don't know how you could say anything else than that.
 
Unique Name said:
Gunston is a 6'4 forward not a mid. That's why he has kicked 48 goals this year. Because he has played in the forward line, not the midfield.

Geelong are somewhat unique because of how many tall players they play. Hawkins, Smith, Stanley, Biclavs, plus rotating their 3 tall backmam forward too.

McGovern is a forward I honestly don't know how you could say anything else than that.
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Of course McGovern is a forward. But he plays more as a mid size player that leads up strongly. He plays similar to the way Mayne should be playing.

If our forward line was Apeness/McCarthy/Fyfe/Walters/Yarran/Bennell next year as an example, I would be happy with that. I don't think we need to select Taberner, simply to have a 3rd tall.
 
Kenny_01 said:
Of course McGovern is a forward. But he plays more as a mid size player that leads up strongly. He plays similar to the way Mayne should be playing.

If our forward line was Apeness/McCarthy/Fyfe/Walters/Yarran/Bennell next year as an example, I would be happy with that. I don't think we need to select Taberner, simply to have a 3rd tall.
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I would be happy with that lineup too. Height is somewhat irrelevant. Sicily played the KPF role for Hawks this year and he's only 189cm i think.

Apeness, Fyfe, McCarthy are three marking targets. Then we'd have 3 med/smalls to mop us the loose ball.
 
Unique Name said:
And how's that gone for us these last few years. How'd our GF go in '13 with only 1 key forward.

Walker, McGovern, Jenkins
Kennedy, Darling, Lycett
Hawkins, Stanley, Smith
Lynch, Wright, Day
Cameron, Lobb, Patton
Petrie, Waite, Brown
Bruce, Riewoldt, McCartin
Roughhead, Gunston, Ceglar

Can't be bother listing the rest. We scored more than Carlton and Essendon this year... that's it. There is a reason 2 KPF's a 1 RuckFwd is the norm. Because it works.
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You could almost say its an unwritten rule having at least a ruck/forward in the team.

Going back to 2013, our tall forwards were pav, kepler bradley and a rookie in Tabs.

Going into 2017, our tall forward stocks are tabs, apeness, smith and possibly adding another tall foward or 2 in Mccarthy, Mason Shaw or Darcy cameron.

Gutted as apeness and smith have both been injured in the last 2 years as both would of played more games than what they have now.

Apeness and Smith are both 23 or under. One has to emerge as servicable.
 

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I prefer to think of Apeness as our ruckman/forward, and think we still need a genuine KPF. When you look at that list of tall forwards every team seems to either have a high first round pick, or a FS selection. Marshall?
 
Kenny_01 said:
Rubbish. Plenty of teams regularly play 2 talls, including Hawthorn.
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Hawthorn always play 2 dedicated key forwards and a spare ruckman. Dunno what to say if you don't consider Gunston a key forward...the mind boggles.
 
Unique Name said:
And how's that gone for us these last few years. How'd our GF go in '13 with only 1 key forward.

Walker, McGovern, Jenkins
Kennedy, Darling, Lycett
Hawkins, Stanley, Smith
Lynch, Wright, Day
Cameron, Lobb, Patton
Petrie, Waite, Brown
Bruce, Riewoldt, McCartin
Roughhead, Gunston, Ceglar

Can't be bother listing the rest. We scored more than Carlton and Essendon this year... that's it. There is a reason 2 KPF's a 1 RuckFwd is the norm. Because it works.
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I can't like posts so I'll just give this one the thumbs up.

Every other team in the league plays 3 key forwards and always has. If you only play 2 then you allow the opposition team to play a tall as a loose defender which significantly impacts your ability to score.
 
Do Sydney, the minor premiers, play 3 KPFs?

The answer btw is sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. If you have 3 quality KPFs you play them but playing only 2 doesn't mean you can't win.
 
wayToGo_ said:
Do Sydney, the minor premiers, play 3 KPFs?

The answer btw is sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. If you have 3 quality KPFs you play them but playing only 2 doesn't mean you can't win.
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They did on the weekend. Franklin, Tippett, Xavier Richards. Richards playing his 6th game and Harrison Marsh (192cm) his 4th seems to suggest they consider height in the forward line pretty necessary even if they don't have 3 quality KPFs available.

So TLDR: Do Sydney, the minor premiers, play 3 KPFS?

Yes, they do. Just like every other good team in history.
 

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ydraw said:
They did on the weekend. Franklin, Tippett, Xavier Richards.
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Yep and a few weeks back they played just two. I'd like us to play 3 but only if we have 3 quality KPFs available that compliment each other. Not just 3 tall guys because we have to fit the 3KPF rule.
 
wayToGo_ said:
Yep and a few weeks back they played just two. I'd like us to play 3 but only if we have 3 quality KPFs available that compliment each other. Not just 3 tall guys because we have to fit the 3KPF rule.
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We'e had 3 available most of the year. Pavlich, Taberner, Apeness (pick 1), Clarke, Griffin (Pick 1).

It's long been a strategy of Ross Lyon to play an extra midfielder at every contest and try to win that way. We don't just play 1 KPF short, we play 1 player short in the forward line most weeks. It doesn't work.
 
wayToGo_ said:
Do Sydney, the minor premiers, play 3 KPFs?
If you have 3 quality KPFs you play them but playing only 2 doesn't mean you can't win.
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Doesn't mean you can't win, no. You might have a day like we had on the weekend where the opposition only kicks 6 goals and we scrape over the line kicking 10.

But 10 goals is not good enough to beat good football teams and our unproductive forward line under Lyon is the main reason we have struggled to beat other good teams.
 
ydraw said:
Doesn't mean you can't win, no. You might have a day like we had on the weekend where the opposition only kicks 6 goals and we scrape over the line kicking 10.

But 10 goals is not good enough to beat good football teams and our unproductive forward line under Lyon is the main reason we have struggled to beat other good teams.
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You like to talk around around in circles a lot don't you? If you read before banging back multiple posts you'll notice I wasn't disagreeing with you. Who are you arguing with? Yourself? All I am saying is we've beaten good teams without 3 KPFs in our forward line (eg last year finishing minor premiers), Sydney have this year, and so have other teams. If you have 3 quality KPFs of course you play them if the mix of players makes sense. I think the bigger issue is playing a 5 man forward line vs 6. If you are outnumbered it's pretty hard no matter how tall your forward line is.
 
wayToGo_ said:
You like to talk around around in circles a lot don't you? If you read before banging back multiple posts you'll notice I wasn't disagreeing with you. Who are you arguing with? Yourself? All I am saying is we've beaten good teams without 3 KPFs in our forward line (eg last year finishing minor premiers),
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Our record against other good teams last year was actually very ordinary, despite us winning the minor premiership.

And in the 2nd half of the season (where we only played 1 KPF with Taberner being dropped somewhere around the Bye and not getting back into the team until the prelim), we only kicked 90 points or more on 3 occasions.
 
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ydraw said:
Our record against other good teams last year was actually very ordinary, despite us winning the minor premiership.
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Ok now I get it, you just like to argue without any substance provided. We beat Sydney (twice), West Coast, Geelong, Western Bulldogs, North Melbourne, Adelaide, GWS and Richmond (once) last year. All of the finalists last year and this year (except Hawks). But let me guess because we didn't beat Hawthorn, our record against good teams was ordinary?
 

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