Michael Gardiner = Hercules

The Passenger

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#26
Originally posted by Voice of Reason
"Judd plays a loose recieving role that does not break the lines..."

Posted by sabre_ac, 11/11/2002.


:D
If Sabre actually he said that, it's either a result of one of two things:

- he knows nothing about Australian Rules Footballer

or

- it is just another snipe in the never ending Freo-WCE battle refusing to give one another credit.

Judd is anything but a reciever.

Ben Cousins is a reciever, and thats his job.

Kerr and Judd's job is to get in and get dirty.

Fletcher is sought of a combination between the two.

The thing about Judd is he goes in and gets the ball from a pack but he doesn't get dirty because he has such silky skills at ground level, and such acceleration and dodging skills, he gets the ball from a pack, is out of the pack with the ball in hand and you don't even actually notice that went in there in the first place.
 

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jod23

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#27
On topic, Gardiner is just about the most influential player going around right now in the AFL. Cox hasnt done much in the last few games and didnt do much against Collingwood so Gardiner just soldiers on. You would think he was tired from all the ruck work, but then you see him working tirelessly (sp?) to provide a target from a kick in, or to provide a target on the wing or half forward...then he kicks a magnificent goal on the run from 45 out with Rocca on his hammer!!

All I can say is that Im glad he plays for us! :D
 

vicki

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#28
Gardiner/Cox combo

Michael Gardiner continues to amaze. Dennis Cometti says he is now the most important member of our team - having overtaken Ben. On Coxy, he appeared to suffer a leg injury last week so maybe he was not 100% yesterday.

As to FF, Willo's stats yesterday:

6 goals (in a team total of 13), 11 marks , and Ricky Mott stretchered off when he was foolish enough to fill the whole in front of a Willo lead!
The game yesterday was played in wet, windy conditions so 6 goals was a more than fair effort :)
I would have Willo in next week - but if not, I am more than happy for him to line up for the Royals against Sooby:D
 

nearlyblonde

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#29
Have to agree that we must find someone to help Gardiner.

Don`t you think that no matter how fit he is, it`s a tad unrealistic to expect him to shoulder the whole burden, week in, week out?

Surely, with all the talls we have at our disposal, it`s time to give someone else a go. Johnson?

Also agree that our forward line is in need of another tall, or Fido has a good chance of becoming mince meat trying to outmark opposition backs.
 

carlyp

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#30
Originally posted by nearlyblonde
Have to agree that we must find someone to help Gardiner.

Don`t you think that no matter how fit he is, it`s a tad unrealistic to expect him to shoulder the whole burden, week in, week out?

Surely, with all the talls we have at our disposal, it`s time to give someone else a go. Johnson?

Also agree that our forward line is in need of another tall, or Fido has a good chance of becoming mince meat trying to outmark opposition backs.
Im not sure as to whether its as much a job of finding someone to help gardi. We have a good back up ruckman in Sux, its just he has lost some form since last year. We should concentrate on getting him back to form rather than finding someone else!
 

chrisjudd3

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#31
With our tall reserves why didn't we trade Cox for Chick and save pick 10? oh well too late now.

I doubt anyone on the list will be as a good a "tap" ruckman as Gardiner so i think a 2nd ruckman to force contests if he can't dominate the taps.

We need a Gorilla who can jump.
McDougall - too light, will get battered, a third tall up forward

Lynch - ideal for taking punishment but does have the height, the leap and the strenght to force a contest

Gaspar - again pretty light on for muscle, a forward

Johnson - like Lynch can handle the tuff stuff but can also become a reliable ruckman with his junior football as a ruckman forward

Hansen - can't see him getting a game...ever....

Seaby - needs more muscle but certainly has the goods

Beeck - anyone see his leap in ruck, its stellar stuff
 

carlyp

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#32
Originally posted by chrisjudd3
With our tall reserves why didn't we trade Cox for Chick and save pick 10? oh well too late now.
Hey! When cox is in form he plays well. Your forgetting who held the ruck while gardi was out last year! Coxy is a good ruck when he's in form. Woosha can either drop him back to WAFL for awhile or he will persist with cox till he finds some form.
 

iceman

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#33
i think people are forgetting the importance of Cox last season when Gardiner was injured

although he'll never be a top line ruckman, i do believe he'll get better as the year goes on, sadly for him, how can you contemplate playing him when you have a top ruckman in Gardiner kicking arse??
 

carlyp

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#34
Originally posted by iceman
i think people are forgetting the importance of Cox last season when Gardiner was injured

although he'll never be a top line ruckman, i do believe he'll get better as the year goes on, sadly for him, how can you contemplate playing him when you have a top ruckman in Gardiner kicking arse??
Yeah but he can play in a forward pocket occasionally and cmon and give Gardi a spell when he's a bit tired. He's still in our best 22 (all be it on the bench) when he's in form!
 

iceman

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#35
Originally posted by carlyp
Yeah but he can play in a forward pocket occasionally and cmon and give Gardi a spell when he's a bit tired. He's still in our best 22 (all be it on the bench) when he's in form!
Having said that tho, if someone like Seaby steps up to be a backup ruckman, expect Cox to be used as trade bait.... there are a lot of clubs that would love to have him in their side
 

carlyp

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#36
Originally posted by iceman
Having said that tho, if someone like Seaby steps up to be a backup ruckman, expect Cox to be used as trade bait.... there are a lot of clubs that would love to have him in their side
Really??? I dont want that though....I like Sux! :( :(
I know alot of people would want him but I think our team is almost perfect as it is and if we add maybe one or two more solid KPP on that list then we'd go great guns.
I dont want to see him go!
 

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Moderator #37
Originally posted by iceman
Having said that tho, if someone like Seaby steps up to be a backup ruckman, expect Cox to be used as trade bait.... there are a lot of clubs that would love to have him in their side
Cox would be number 1 ruckman at Essendon or Collingwood easily.......
 

daddy_4_eyes

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#39
Originally posted by iceman
Having said that tho, if someone like Seaby steps up to be a backup ruckman, expect Cox to be used as trade bait.... there are a lot of clubs that would love to have him in their side
I'd be more surprised if Cox was retained after this year than if he was traded. With Seaby, Johnson and now Beeck all looking like prospects for the future, trading Cox is really on the cards. Especially if getting that Moody kid becomes a reality.
 

carlyp

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#40
Originally posted by daddy_4_eyes
I'd be more surprised if Cox was retained after this year than if he was traded. With Seaby, Johnson and now Beeck all looking like prospects for the future, trading Cox is really on the cards. Especially if getting that Moody kid becomes a reality.
Well the club would have to be preety comfortable in the fact that Seaby, Johnson and Beek were going to be good enough to fill in for Gardi for periods in a game, or actually take on the ruck if gardi was to injure himself. I wouldnt be so confident. The club would be silly if they traded Cox atm imo. We need a decent back up ruckmen and if we loose gardi then we dont really have one of them.
 

chrisjudd3

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#41
Don;t get me wrong Carlyp I was thinking bout about possibilities rather than serious earnest intent in trading Cox.

But Frankly if he doesn;t perform year in year out I'm sure the young talls will snap up Cox's spot.

If he's injured he shouldn;t be playing anyway, Wakelin towelled Cox on Saturday and outmarked him!!!!

But I would like to "see" a Lynch or Johnson as backups, who can go forward as well, they are a good combination in forward/ruckman.

The presssure is on gardiner to fight the battles of two men while Cox is fighting for his place with our young talls knocking for his position.
 

Mead

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#42
I would note the standard cliche about ruckman taking a long time to mature, and suggest that given Cox's efforts last season, he could actually be a bloody good ruckman indeed down the track- development wise, he's advanced so far i think people forget how young he is.
His trade value would be high, and I could understand him wanting to head east if it meant he got to be a teams' #1 ruck. If he wanted a trade done, it could work out in our interest, but if it didn't, well, hang onto him!
 

jod23

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#43
Originally posted by Mead
I would note the standard cliche about ruckman taking a long time to mature, and suggest that given Cox's efforts last season, he could actually be a bloody good ruckman indeed down the track- development wise, he's advanced so far i think people forget how young he is.
His trade value would be high, and I could understand him wanting to head east if it meant he got to be a teams' #1 ruck. If he wanted a trade done, it could work out in our interest, but if it didn't, well, hang onto him!
Couldnt agree more. I think your all being overly harsh on Cox. He is only 20 years IIRC and to suggest that a Johnson or Seaby would come in and be better than Cox is ridiculous. Cox is just a little out of form, Im sure he will find it again.
 

iceman

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#44
We're not saying that we should go out of our way to trade him, i think Cox is a good ruckman but he isnt getting many opportunities. If he decides to head East to be a #1 ruckman then we need to have someone ready to step in for him - ala Seaby
 
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Moderator #45
Originally posted by daddy_4_eyes
Especially if getting that Moody kid becomes a reality.
I'd think we'd have to give up a fair bit more than Cox to get a pick early enough to get anywhere Moody, he would have gone top 5 last year if he was old enough........
 

daddy_4_eyes

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#46
Originally posted by larrikin
I'd think we'd have to give up a fair bit more than Cox to get a pick early enough to get anywhere Moody, he would have gone top 5 last year if he was old enough........
Read in the Hun that he's probably going to be a late top 10 pick. I guess expert opinions differ depending on which state you live in...
 

Voice of Reason

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#47
Originally posted by jod23
Couldnt agree more. I think your all being overly harsh on Cox. He is only 20 years IIRC and to suggest that a Johnson or Seaby would come in and be better than Cox is ridiculous. Cox is just a little out of form, Im sure he will find it again.
Couldn't agree more more.

There's a big difference between WAFL (which I see a lot of) and AFL. Johnson's played one AFL game for one possession standing in the goal square and Seaby's not played.

Having said that, they are both excellent prospects for the future and Seaby (who I see most of) has improved greatly this year. Johnson has always been big for his age and obviously the other AFL clubs didn't rate him (we picked him up surprisingly late in the draft), but the Eagles are very pleased with him.

IMO, the only players on our list who have the ability to play AFL ruck for anything more than pinch-hitting are:
1. Gardiner
2. Cox
a way behind
3. Seaby or Johnson and
4. Beeck (if he can get on the list).

Beeck's an interesting one - I've hardly seen him play live (once that I can remember), but on TV he impresses and reports have been good this year. Make or break in the WAFL this year.
 

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#48
Zac Beeck

Zac has been East Perth's number one ruckman this year and has improved tremendously. He has a huge leap and is doing a lot around the ground as well. This is his second year on the rookie list so I think he must be either elevated to the senior list or let go at the end of the season. (I think they are the rules regarding rookie players). Another interesting Royals player is Luke Webster who is in his second year on the Dorkers rookie list. He spent the first year recovering from a knee reconstruction.Luke actually trained with the Eagles in the preseason before the Dorks stole him. I hope they don't elevate him and he is a chance of being drafted by the Eagles ;)
 

daddy_4_eyes

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#50
Re: Zac Beeck

Originally posted by vicki
This is his second year on the rookie list so I think he must be either elevated to the senior list or let go at the end of the season. (I think they are the rules regarding rookie players).
I'm pretty sure its his 3rd. After his first 2 yrs he was delisted, and picked up again in the rookie draft. I think the rules are that you can be on the rookie list a maximum of two years the first time, and one year the second time.

Hows Rudeforth going by the way? Its his 2nd year too, does he have a chance of elevation?
 
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