Play Nice Michael Jordan vs LeBron James

Remove this Banner Ad

Scotland

TheBrownDog
May 5, 2006
56,607
60,616
AFL Club
West Coast
Curry is the best shooter ever. A natural from beyond the arc. IMO there hasn't been a shooter as natural as him not even Reggie or Ray. To say Michael could just morph into a 3 point shooter like him after practicing 3's just proves how futile MJ fans are.
Jordan could never be Curry, Curry could never be Jordan.

Jordan's career 3 point stats were 0.5 makes from 1.7 attempts per game. Compare that to the Warriors last year (when Steph played more than 5 times) and Draymond (defensive player, not a renowned scorer) and Iguodala (bench player) made 2+ attempts. DeMarcus Cousins put up 3.2 which is more than any Bulls player in the 97/98 season except Pippen. Totally different game which analytics has taken over. At 4.7 attempts per game Reggie Miller would've slotted in 4th in the 2019/20 Warriors.

If Jordan played today I expect he'd be a better 3 point shooter but not an elite one because it's not the #1 weapon to his game. Most of the guys who shoot 40%+ are specialists who don't do much else. I see him a bit like Kawhi Leonard who this season is shooting 36.6% on 5.7 attempts a game. Competent enough and you don't leave him alone on the arc, but he doesn't try to turn every possession into a 3 and doesn't just sit in the corner feet set. Jordan put up 23 FGA a game which is what Harden does now, but Harden shoots 3s more than half the time compared to Jordan's 1 in 10. I'm sure Harden would shoot 20 mid range shots a game instead if D'Antoni asked him to.
 

Scotland

TheBrownDog
May 5, 2006
56,607
60,616
AFL Club
West Coast
MJ won a ring in 96 averaging 27 PPG on a 43% FG
Kobe won a ring in 2010 averaging 28 PPG on a 40% FG
Kawhi won a ring in 2019 averaging 28 PPG on a 43% FG
Lebron lost in 2017 averaging 34 PPG on a 56% FG
Interesting angle.

Curry's highest scoring Finals run was last year when the Warriors team fell apart and the Raptors won in 6. He wasn't better than Kawhi. Durant averaged 31 points on 55% shooting in 2012 but the Thunder still lost to the Heat. Harden averaged 35 in last year's WC semis but the Rockets still lost in 6 to the Warriors even though Durant was injured in game 5. LeBron is a far more proven playoff performer than Harden, but just looking at points scored (and FG%) isn't looking at the whole picture. LeBron like other players has had great individual series in losing teams, but people only care about rings in basketball, hence there were only 9 non championship winners in the NBA's top 50 of all time list released in 1996. LeBron could repeat 2017 a bunch of times and it wouldn't catapult him above Jordan in most people's eyes.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

randyzany

Premiership Player
Sep 21, 2007
3,735
1,432
Melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
Curry is the best shooter ever. A natural from beyond the arc. IMO there hasn't been a shooter as natural as him not even Reggie or Ray. To say Michael could just morph into a 3 point shooter like him after practicing 3's just proves how futile MJ fans are.
I don't think anybody is saying that Jordan could shoot the 3 ball as well as Ray, Reggie or Curry if he just practiced and practiced, we'd never know for sure.

But that the modern 3 ball is overvalued due to the slight changes that the NBA have been introducing gradually over the last 20 years or so to make life easier for shooters, especially midgets like Stefanie.

Like I said put Stephie in the 90s and he would get mugged and just not allowed the space he gets via moving/illegal screens to constantly get the good open looks he does today. Back then defense was at premium and it explains why specialist shooters were not as highly regarded but big centres were. In other words the rules of the period geared the game to be played in a particular way and coaches recruited and traded to fit that style.

Delly is the living proof of how overrated shooters are today, he made Steph (the supposed best EVAH!!!!!!!!11111111) look decidedly average on the biggest stage until the refs stepped in and rescued his short-arse from Big Bad Delly who's probably only an inch or 2 taller than him.

Sadly the powers that be arrived at the conclusion that the majority of NBA fans are casuals who simply don't care or appreciate defense and therefore have been devaluing that part of the game ever since the late 90s. A move that has allowed someone like Curry to be mythologized, scores get out of control and modern day fans to delusionally argue that todays' players are just more skilled at everything including shooting etc... when in reality they are just a product of how the game is being officiated (i.e soft WWE style), nothing more nothing less.
 

fidstar

Brownlow Medallist
May 9, 2013
13,175
9,036
AFL Club
West Coast
wtf? Steph took 4 free throws a game.

Got the whistle? lol. Cavs were basically allowed to rape him in the Finals in 2015 & 2016.

Delly has one half decent game against Steph and people though he could stop Steph. Steph put Delly in hospital the next game.
 

randyzany

Premiership Player
Sep 21, 2007
3,735
1,432
Melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
That's not how I remember it. Delly put himself in hospital out of pure exhaustion and dehydration from following Steph around (reminiscent of Gary Payton, The Glove) getting bodied through all those illegal/moving screens yet he fought through them anyway, and having no help in doing that thankless task.

The refs then made sure to take him out of the game completely from about game 4 onwards with early ticky tack fouls. Delly was embarrassing one of the NBA's golden boys so he had to be put in his place. You could also sense that Stephie had little respect for Delly given the way he spoke and looked at him.

I have to say it's incredibly un-Australian to speak of a great Aussie like Delly in such a disparaging tone.
 

fidstar

Brownlow Medallist
May 9, 2013
13,175
9,036
AFL Club
West Coast
So, you're saying Steph put him in hospital.

Well, Delly had a total of 2 fouls in Game 4, played 41 minutes in Game 5 and fouled out in Game 6. So, you're saying he got bad calls in 1 game? Because the other two games he didn't seem to have too many bad calls.

He was literally grabbing Steph on every play.

I'm not complaining. You play to the whistle. But to say he was actually getting called for ticky-tack fouls is laughable.
 

randyzany

Premiership Player
Sep 21, 2007
3,735
1,432
Melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
So, you're saying Steph put him in hospital.

Like I said Delly was getting bodied and worn down mostly due to the physical toll of trying to fight through all the illegal screens Steffie's teammates were setting to get him free.


So, you're saying he got bad calls in 1 game?
From Game 4 onwards, the refs decided right there and then that was enough (Delly neutralising Steff) and they were going to protect Steffie from Delly no matter what.

He was literally grabbing Steph on every play.
Delly was being tossed around like a rag doll trying to get around illegal screens that are called once in a blue moon. Steff is nothing without spacing, a defender just being within 1 metre of him is enough to disrupt his shooting rhythm and cause him to miss.

You play to the whistle. But to say he was actually getting called for ticky-tack fouls is laughable.
You're entitled to your opinion but Steffie has not being exposed to a tenth of the physicality Jordan had to endure. Had he played in the 80s I doubt his body would've hold up for more than 2 seasons.
 

fidstar

Brownlow Medallist
May 9, 2013
13,175
9,036
AFL Club
West Coast
From Game 4 onwards, the refs decided right there and then that was enough (Delly neutralising Steff) and they were going to protect Steffie from Delly no matter what.
I literally showed you foul numbers/minutes played that contradict what you are saying. Good to see you completely ignored them and have literally no evidence to say otherwise.

Is your first name Donald?
 

fidstar

Brownlow Medallist
May 9, 2013
13,175
9,036
AFL Club
West Coast
Also, lol @ Steph not being good in the 80s. jfc. Pretty much every point guard in the 80s was a 6 foot 3, 180 pound guy.
 

randyzany

Premiership Player
Sep 21, 2007
3,735
1,432
Melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
Stats can't be manipulated to tell a certain narrative, I'm relying of my own recollection of events.

Game 4 was the game after he had spent time in hospital? He had nothing left in the tank, should not have played.

Game 5 he got in foul trouble really (3 or 4 fouls in the first half, have to look it up) early and basically that rendered him ineffectual, from that point on.

Game 6, I rest my case.
 

fidstar

Brownlow Medallist
May 9, 2013
13,175
9,036
AFL Club
West Coast
Here's some 80s footage that isn't highlights. Please tell me Steph doesn't get 20 wide open 3s running around playing in this game.

 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

randyzany

Premiership Player
Sep 21, 2007
3,735
1,432
Melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
Also, lol @ Steph not being good in the 80s. jfc. Pretty much every point guard in the 80s was a 6 foot 3, 180 pound guy.
I dunno he always looks malnourished to me, like he's straight out of one of those East African refugee camps and that could be snapped in half any minute. Thankfully he has Klay to act as his personal bodyguard who does most of the grunt defensive work.
 

fidstar

Brownlow Medallist
May 9, 2013
13,175
9,036
AFL Club
West Coast
Stats can't be manipulated to tell a certain narrative, I'm relying of my own recollection of events.
That's a good idea.

Let's see if it works.

Game 5 he got in foul trouble really (3 or 4 fouls in the first half, have to look it up) early and basically that rendered him ineffectual, from that point on.
Delly had zero fouls in the first quarter.

He had one in the second quarter.

Stats are there to show that our memories aren't great a lot of the time.
 

fidstar

Brownlow Medallist
May 9, 2013
13,175
9,036
AFL Club
West Coast
I dunno he always looks malnourished to me, like he's straight out of one of those East African refugee camps and that could be snapped in half any minute. Thankfully he has Klay to act as his personal bodyguard who does most of the grunt defensive work.
Well he's 2 inches taller and 10 pounds heavier than IT, and he went okay in the 80s.
 

randyzany

Premiership Player
Sep 21, 2007
3,735
1,432
Melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
I haven't been able to find these of sort historical stats so I'll take your word for it for now. Okay so it was just Game 6 where the refs needed to take him out of the game. It seems the hospital stay had detrimental lingering effects that lasted over the following 2 games before he finally recuperated. The cumulative damage that had been inflicted via illegal screens on Delly had done it's work and that allowed Steffie the much needed spacing he was after from Game 4 onwards.
 

fidstar

Brownlow Medallist
May 9, 2013
13,175
9,036
AFL Club
West Coast
I haven't been able to find these of sort historical stats so I'll take your word for it for now. Okay so it was just Game 6 where the refs needed to take him out of the game. It seems the hospital stay had detrimental lingering effects that lasted over the following 2 games before he had finally recuperated. The cumulative damage that had been inflicted via illegal screens on Delly had done it's work and that allowed Steffie the much needed spacing he was after from Game 4 onwards.
So, when the Warriors were up 3 games to 2 and in control of the series, they decided they should take Delly out of the game. Makes sense.

Nice to know that Delly can play 42 minutes when he's not "fully recuperated"

Look, you're obviously a Delly fan. He's done great out of that series fwiw. Got him paid a lot of money because he played a couple of decent games. But stop putting narrative that simply isn't true.
 

randyzany

Premiership Player
Sep 21, 2007
3,735
1,432
Melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
Weren't the Cavs seriosly undermanned? I don't think they had a choice, they would've put a corpse on the court if they had to. lol The whole team had to work twice as hard to cover their lack of personnel. Delly is/was a bench player and wasn't used to those sort of heavy minutes, makes sense (in addition to all he had to up with from the dubs) he was cooked after logging so many minutes. Shame, I wonder what the result would've been like if he had the endurance to play at that standard for the entire series.
 

BEaston

Hungry
Oct 9, 2013
6,118
6,321
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Steph Curry would absolutely run rings around 80s defence. Their on ball defence was horrible, bar a minimal number of players who were good at it. Their exterior defence was even worse.
 

jod23

TheBrownDog
Apr 2, 2000
64,101
19,922
Perth, Australia
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Liverpool, Chicago Bulls.
That is the dumbest argument I have ever heard.

1/ Magic is NOT in the conversation for GOAT. He is not even close.
2/ MJ never won anything without Pippen.

KAJ has massive claims
KAJ does have massive claims. For me, he's probably 2nd, 3rd at worst. But he was 33 in 1980 when Magic arrived. He'd only gotten that one championship up until then. Magic has massive claims on that No.2 spot also.
 

QuietB

Brownlow Medallist
May 13, 2008
25,002
30,481
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
KAJ does have massive claims. For me, he's probably 2nd, 3rd at worst. But he was 33 in 1980 when Magic arrived. He'd only gotten that one championship up until then. Magic has massive claims on that No.2 spot also.
It is not even clear Magic was better than Bird.

In my time it is KAJ, Jordan and LeBron. Wilt was well before my time and I have no idea what to do with Bill Russell who was also obviously before my time but has an insane number of rings, MVP's and defensive teams.

Ultimately it is not even fair to compare them. Taking KAJ, Jordan and LeBron, they all play different positions, they all have different strengths and weaknesses (including Jordan - they had to move Pippen on to Magic for their first title remember), they are all beyond amazing.
 

jod23

TheBrownDog
Apr 2, 2000
64,101
19,922
Perth, Australia
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Liverpool, Chicago Bulls.
It is not even clear Magic was better than Bird.

In my time it is KAJ, Jordan and LeBron. Wilt was well before my time and I have no idea what to do with Bill Russell who was also obviously before my time but has an insane number of rings, MVP's and defensive teams.

Ultimately it is not even fair to compare them. Taking KAJ, Jordan and LeBron, they all play different positions, they all have different strengths and weaknesses (including Jordan - they had to move Pippen on to Magic for their first title remember), they are all beyond amazing.
Jordan is 1.

You can raffle off the top guys after that. KAJ, Magic, Lebron, Russell, Wilt, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Bird.....
 

Top Bottom