Play Nice Michael Jordan vs LeBron James

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Scotland

TheBrownDog
May 5, 2006
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That is what makes Curry better than someone like Lillard. Curry puts fear into defences that Lillard doesn’t and his off ball movement creates so many easy looks for others. The efficiency difference is quite big. The Warriors entire offence since 2015 has revolved around Curry and movement. The type of player he is generates so much great offence that the Blazers would have gone to another level offensively with Steph at the helm.
Is that Curry or is that Steve Kerr? Steph's off ball movement is fantastic, but it's not like Klay and co just stand around looking at each other. Off ball movement is a team thing, hence Chris Paul got frustrated with James Harden in Houston. Klay is a career 3 of 7 3 point shooter, he has definitely sacrificed his game for the team also. If he put up 10 3s a game like the top guys each year he would still be a 40%+ shooter and would regularly score 30+.

I think you are underestimating how much Dame carries the Blazers' offence and how much attention he attracts. They finished today's game on an 18-2 run and he scored or assisted every point. Last year the Blazers had Dame putting up 30 points and 8 assists and shooting 40% from 3 and they finished at 35-39 and lost 4-1 to the Lakers who swamped Lillard in the playoffs. Curry is the better player, but he's not taking CJ, Melo, Wenyen Gabriel and an unfit Nurkic past LA.

Anyway, happy 58th birthday to GOAT Jordan. Somewhere Skip Bayless is probably arguing that he could still play in the NBA today.
 

fidstar

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No one plays off the ball like Steph. No little guy sacrifices his body for him team bouncing around with the big men with no personal reward. He would average 5+ screen assists a night.

Steph obviously makes Portland better. You could argue whether they win a title with him or not. I think 2019 is a good chance, being that they would have at least made the Finals.
 

jod23

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Every great player has needed great players around them to win titles. Even LeBron and Jordan. So I’m not sure why that’s an argument against Steph?

Yes you are right that right now his team isn’t as good and he’s carrying the load and it’s not great for success. But I’m not sure what you’re trying to argue there? I was simply saying the myth that Curry relies on great players to get his offence can be put to bed. He’s putting up 2016 numbers with a pretty bad roster around him and offensively with him they are a top 6 offence and league worst without him. He has that much of an impact. And this is while he cops defences no other player in the league sees.

You give Steph a half decent roster and he’s going deep in the playoffs. The defence thing is completely overblown. He’s not an all NBA defender but he has never been the scrub people make him out to be. He does what’s needed out of a point guard really. Magic Johnson wasn’t a great defender and that hasn’t stopped him from being discussed as guy that would transform a team with his ability. It’s the exact same with Steph. What he does offensively is adds an enormous amount of impact. Defensively he isn’t a negative so his impact overall on a game is enormous.

That is what makes Curry better than someone like Lillard. Curry puts fear into defences that Lillard doesn’t and his off ball movement creates so many easy looks for others. The efficiency difference is quite big. The Warriors entire offence since 2015 has revolved around Curry and movement. The type of player he is generates so much great offence that the Blazers would have gone to another level offensively with Steph at the helm.

Curry isn’t top 10 right now but the Warriors could very well do a Spurs with older Duncan and compete again. Another title or two with another 4-5 years of elite play would put him over a few in the top 10 in my opinion.
The Magic thing doesnt really fly as Magic was 6'9 so you couldnt take advantage of him defensively. Magic like Steph is a good defender but one is 6'9. Neither are great defenders though. Holds Steph back from top 10 arguments and holds Magic back in GOAT arguments.
 

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BigBreakfast

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The Magic thing doesnt really fly as Magic was 6'9 so you couldnt take advantage of him defensively. Magic like Steph is a good defender but one is 6'9. Neither are great defenders though. Holds Steph back from top 10 arguments and holds Magic back in GOAT arguments.
Magic was a great team/system defender and relied upon Scott to defend the best back court player and bigs like Kareem, McAdoo, Thompson, Green etc to provide a huge wall at the basket. Steph is a bit the same with Bogut, Zaza, Green, McGee to defend the rim while Thompson took the opponent’s best offensive player. Lots of people abused both Magic and Steph straight up but they are both very smart defenders who know where to be to impact defensively.

Anyway Jordan is the GOAT and Bron is not very far behind.
 

Scotland

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Steph is always going to attract 'bad defender' criticism because of his size. In order to be called a good defender as a smaller guard you need to be very, very good. Someone comparably good that is 6'6/6'7 is always going to be rated higher. It's not that Steph is a liability, he's just not amazing nor does he have great length or size. He's a better defender than Harden most of the time, but you'd feel more comfortable with Harden if he got in a mismatch with a 3/4 guy. Size is no guarantee of being a good defender, though. Case in point: Zion Williamson. 6'6, strong and can jump 40-50 inches and is an awful defender.

Jordan and Kobe being better defenders than LeBron is mostly down to mindset. If there was a hypothetical prime Jordan vs prime Kobe finals match up you know both would want the ball in their hands and the responsibility of guarding the other. I don't think you can teach that.
 

fidstar

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Also in Golden States Golden Years, teams had to choose in going at Steph, Klay, Iggy, Durant or Green. Obviously Curry is the worse of the lot. That doesn't mean he's bad, it just means the others are very good defenders.
 

Scotland

TheBrownDog
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Swings and roundabouts. Play with great offensive players you get an easier ride. Play with great defensive players and any shortcomings you have can be masked but teams may look to target you 1 on 1.
 

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