Play Nice Michael Jordan vs LeBron James

[Slysh]

Jordan did not play at all in 1993/94 then came back for the last 17 games of 1994/95 plus two playoff series. I find it a weird thing for people to focus on.

He was clearly not as sharp or match fit and still averaged 26.9 points, 6.9 rebounds and 5.3 assists in the 17 regular season games and 31.5 / 6.5 / 4.5 in the playoffs. His playoff numbers were pretty much on par with his overall career playoff record.

He chose to walk away and chose to come back. It is just not surprising some claim Lebron has some flawless resume when you act as if his rein only started once he won a chip, don't include the year he returned from retirement and don't include his Wizards stint. So if you just look at that 6 year stretch he was never beaten.

I have no issue giving him a pass on it, just like i would give a pass on Lebron this year. However some Jordan stans want to nit-pick every little part of Lebrons career but will give MJ a pass.

The documentary showed how gassed Jordan was by the end, he needed to walk away. It is a part of his career and the whole 'no one ate on MJ's watch is stupid'.

 

[Scotland]

He chose to walk away and chose to come back. It is just not surprising some claim Lebron has some flawless resume when you act as if his rein only started once he won a chip, don't include the year he returned from retirement and don't include his Wizards stint. So if you just look at that 6 year stretch he was never beaten.

I have no issue giving him a pass on it, just like i would give a pass on Lebron this year. However some Jordan stans want to nit-pick every little part of Lebrons career but will give MJ a pass.

The documentary showed how gassed Jordan was by the end, he needed to walk away. It is a part of his career and the whole 'no one ate on MJ's watch is stupid'.

Fair enough.

IMO Jordan walking away in 1993 was necessary for him as a player/person. 1998 was just sticking it to the Jerrys. Purely hypothetical but I believe the 1998 Bulls could've easily won the 1999 title and Jordan the 1999 MVP. On talent/age alone there's nothing to say 1994 or 1995 would've been any different, but it looks like he needed some time away. Reinsdorf owning the White Sox and continuing paying his NBA salary then the MLB strike were a bit of a perfect storm for him to pursue his baseball 'dream' and have a way back in to the NBA.

The 'no one ate on MJ's watch' thing is still valid to some degree. He never lost a finals series, and never didn't win a championship having made the playoffs after 1990 - with the exception of 1994/95 where he played 17/82 games after missing a year and a half. If he's not there he's not there and he wasn't the best player in the league in 94/95.

We'll never know what LeBron would've done if he retired twice. He missed a bunch of games this year then came back and didn't set the world on fire.

 

[fidstar]

Jordan did not play at all in 1993/94 then came back for the last 17 games of 1994/95 plus two playoff series. I find it a weird thing for people to focus on.

He was clearly not as sharp or match fit and still averaged 26.9 points, 6.9 rebounds and 5.3 assists in the 17 regular season games and 31.5 / 6.5 / 4.5 in the playoffs. His playoff numbers were pretty much on par with his overall career playoff record.

So, he played like MJ in playoffs and his team lost. So, he wasn't 6 for 6 then playing at his peak after he won the first Championship?

Anyway, like the poster above says, Jod would quickly rip LeBron for a tiny thing, but MJ choosing to wait until 17 games to go in a season (why didn't he come back with 40 games to go?) can't be picked on.

 

[fidstar]

It's just a bit hypocritical of someone like Jod saying that the Warriors underachieved when they had Durant and Klay injured, but he would never say the Bulls underachieved because MJ chose not not to play basketball for a year and a half.

 

[Scotland]

So, he played like MJ in playoffs and his team lost. So, he wasn't 6 for 6 then playing at his peak after he won the first Championship?

Anyway, like the poster above says, Jod would quickly rip LeBron for a tiny thing, but MJ choosing to wait until 17 games to go in a season (why didn't he come back with 40 games to go?) can't be picked on.

There's Jordan > LeBron and there's Jod. The Warriors didn't underachieve. They won 2 titles and lost a Finals series 4-2 without KD for all but 10 minutes and then Klay went down. It's a stars league. Bucks can win a couple of games against the Hawks without Giannis, but they're not beating the Suns over 7 games without Giannis then Jrue Holiday going down.

Jordan wasn't sitting around on his arse smoking cigars in 1995, he was playing minor leagues baseball. If not for the players strike who knows how long he would've stuck that out. He definitely had a bit of an each way bet playing with a White Sox affiliate and maintaining both a huge salary and ties to Jerry Reinsdorf.

He was good in the 1995 playoffs, but I don't think anyone playing 17 games after missing 150 odd is at their peak. Harper, Kerr, Longley, Kukoc, Wennington were all newbies that weren't part of the first threepeat. Does anyone think if Jordan had played the entire 94/95 season with those guys they would've started 23-35, finished 47-35 and lost in the ECSF? The Nets ended up being derailed this year by injury but they weren't immediately the best team in the NBA with Harden, Kyrie and KD on the court.

 

[jod23]

He chose to walk away and chose to come back. It is just not surprising some claim Lebron has some flawless resume when you act as if his rein only started once he won a chip, don't include the year he returned from retirement and don't include his Wizards stint. So if you just look at that 6 year stretch he was never beaten.

I have no issue giving him a pass on it, just like i would give a pass on Lebron this year. However some Jordan stans want to nit-pick every little part of Lebrons career but will give MJ a pass.

The documentary showed how gassed Jordan was by the end, he needed to walk away. It is a part of his career and the whole 'no one ate on MJ's watch is stupid'.

I dont give his Wizards years a pass. Why would you? He enhanced his legacy with those two years in Washington. What he was doing prior to the knee injury was flat out unbelievable for his age. Stupid Etan Thomas ruining everything.

 

[jod23]

It's just a bit hypocritical of someone like Jod saying that the Warriors underachieved when they had Durant and Klay injured, but he would never say the Bulls underachieved because MJ chose not not to play basketball for a year and a half.

The Bulls didnt underachieve though, they won 6 championships.

 

[fidstar]

The Bulls didnt underachieve though, they won 6 championships.

6 from 12 I think we worked it out to be.

 

[jod23]

6 from 12 I think we worked it out to be.

Did we?

 

[fidstar]

Sorry it was 6 of 10. 89 to 98

 

[Ambrosia]

The interesting thing about Lebron is I don’t think anyone has a good knowledge of how good he is at the moment.

- He didn’t look fully fit from his ankle injury against the Suns.

- 2019-2020 playoff run the Lakers were never really tested and I never got the sense that Lebron ever went into that 2018 playoff mode dominate the ball style of play.

- 2018-19 Missed playoffs through injury.

- 2017-2018 huge playoff run carrying Cavs to finals as the undisputed best player in the NBA.

Does anyone think he still has the 2018 playoff god mode still in his tool kit or is he now “just” a normal top 5 player in the NBA with KD, Kawhi, Giannis and Luka?

 

[fidstar]

Just a Top 5 player. He is getting old but. He's aged better than anyone in history, but there is a limit.

 

[Slysh]

I dont give his Wizards years a pass. Why would you? He enhanced his legacy with those two years in Washington. What he was doing prior to the knee injury was flat out unbelievable for his age. Stupid Etan Thomas ruining everything.

Yet you knock Lebron who is older, played more minutes by a long way and is still playing at an elite level before injury this year.

 

[jod23]

Yet you knock Lebron who is older, played more minutes by a long way and is still playing at an elite level before injury this year.

Huh? LeBron isnt older than Jordan when Jordan was in his Washington years. LeBron and Jordan always played at an elite level basically their whole career.

 

[jod23]

The interesting thing about Lebron is I don’t think anyone has a good knowledge of how good he is at the moment.

- He didn’t look fully fit from his ankle injury against the Suns.

- 2019-2020 playoff run the Lakers were never really tested and I never got the sense that Lebron ever went into that 2018 playoff mode dominate the ball style of play.

- 2018-19 Missed playoffs through injury.

- 2017-2018 huge playoff run carrying Cavs to finals as the undisputed best player in the NBA.

Does anyone think he still has the 2018 playoff god mode still in his tool kit or is he now “just” a normal top 5 player in the NBA with KD, Kawhi, Giannis and Luka?

LeBron is just a top 10 player nowadays. KD is probably the best player in the world now.

 

[Slysh]

Huh? LeBron isnt older than Jordan when Jordan was in his Washington years. LeBron and Jordan always played at an elite level basically their whole career.

Apologise got my dates wrong, it is interesting though he has a hell of a lot more miles under his legs.

How do you rate what Lebron is doing currently?

 

[Ambrosia]

LeBron is just a top 10 player nowadays. KD is probably the best player in the world now.

Disagree he’s still clearly top 5/6 I missed Steph originally.

Agree KDs form against the Bucks is the highest of play demonstrated recently.

 

[Scotland]

Apologise got my dates wrong, it is interesting though he has a hell of a lot more miles under his legs.

How do you rate what Lebron is doing currently?

You would take LeBron's output for any 37 year old player whether it's a drop off from their peak or not. LeBron last won MVP in 2013. CP3 is the only player around the same age still playing at an All Star level. Melo, Dwight, Millsap, Lowry etc. are solid starters or role players.

LeBron has been All NBA third, first and second team in 3 years with the Lakers. If not for injury he may have been first team all 3 years. I don't think he's a lock All NBA first team player any more, but he's still in the top few in his position. Similar to Kobe and Jordan in his Wizards years he is losing his iron man ability to keep playing 82 games plus playoffs year after year.

On his position, at LA he's a point forward if not a point guard. Schroder was the starting PG most of this season but really they run the offence through LeBron. Last year the starting 5 was LeBron, Danny Green, KCP, AD and Dwight/McGee/Morris/whoever depending on match ups. I don't think he's better than KD, Kawhi, Giannis or Steph, Dame, Luka currently but he's better than all of those guys at something. If you can only pick one of Jokic/Embiid I think they need to sort out forward/guard rules. But that's not on him.

I do think if LeBron was playing with the Lakers squad he joined rather than with a prime AD then he would be like Dame in Portland, Luka in Dallas etc. in terms of how far he could take the team. Carrying a roster as the solo star is a young man's game.

 

[jod23]

Disagree he’s still clearly top 5/6 I missed Steph originally.

Agree KDs form against the Bucks is the highest of play demonstrated recently.

He's top 10ish. Curry, KD, Harden, Luka, AD, Giannis, Jokic, Embiid, Kawhi... He's amongst all that.

 

[jod23]

Apologise got my dates wrong, it is interesting though he has a hell of a lot more miles under his legs.

How do you rate what Lebron is doing currently?

The blokes unbelievable, considering how many years he has on his legs to still be playing at such a high level at his age is incredible. He works extremely hard to keep himself in absolute top physical condition. He's also been incredibly lucky with avoiding any real injuries. The recent ankle injury is about the worst he has ever suffered and it wasnt even that bad. He's never done a knee or achilles like so many great players have unfortunately suffered.

I think that's down to hard work and discipline with his body and luck so good for him.

I dont think anybody will ever have the career that LeBron has and is having. Been this good for this long is unprecedented. Coming straight from high school and playing 20-22 years of incredibly high level basketball simply will never be repeated for several reason.

1 - you need to be a generational talent, so good you come straight out of high school. Even the latest generational talent in Zion went to college.

2 - you need to focus on basketball and not wealth and fame and keep your body and mind in check rather than do stupid s**t. Not many people have that mentality with the advantages that wealth and fame have.

3 - you need to have great luck in not suffering any career impacting injuries that can basically ruin careers ala D-Rose and Grant Hill who were on course to be all time greats.

You need all three of those things and having just one of them is extremely rare, so getting all three is like a needle in field of hay stacks. So what he has done wont ever be repeated.

You cant do anything but respect the guy. He's incredible.

 

[scaryness]

He's top 10ish. Curry, KD, Harden, Luka, AD, Giannis, Jokic, Embiid, Kawhi... He's amongst all that.

Assuming I only get one of those players, for one season I would pick LeBron above all of them tbh. KD and Kawhi are probably the next closest imo.

 

[jod23]

Assuming I only get one of those players, for one season I would pick LeBron above all of them tbh. KD and Kawhi are probably the next closest imo.

Maybe 5 years ago you'd pick LeBron. Now if anyone didnt pick KD you'd be crazy.

 

[scaryness]

Maybe 5 years ago you'd pick LeBron. Now if anyone didnt pick KD you'd be crazy.

KD is better overall right now, you're right, but I trust LeBron more to go deeper in one season in any team when healthy.

But who knows I could be clinging to years gone by as well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Ambrosia]

Maybe 5 years ago you'd pick LeBron. Now if anyone didnt pick KD you'd be crazy.

Who had a better regular season this year?

 

[jod23]

Who had a better regular season this year?

I'd say Durant. Carried the Nets through Kyrie's bullshit and Harden's injuries. Averaged 27, 7 and 5 with a PER of 26.4. Compared to LeBron who averaged 25 7 and 7 with a PER of 24.2.

Both missed a ton of games.