Michael Warners article 04/12/24. How woke and hypocritical the afl has become.

[.Shotties.]

No, you're misunderstanding the statement.

Okay, so let's wheel back to these big shows of pandering to the "far left" then. Any examples? Links and policies preferably, not vague recollections of Joe Rogan clips.

 

[bzparkes]

Okay, so let's wheel back to these big shows of pandering to the "far left" then. Any examples? Links and policies preferably, not vague recollections of Joe Rogan clips.

Huh? Just watch any CNN or MSNBC panel show.

Or, if you want to subject yourself to it, watch The View.

 

[.Shotties.]

Huh? Just watch any CNN or MSNBC panel show.

Or, if you want to subject yourself to it, watch The View.

I meant by the Democratic party as you claimed earlier.

 

[bzparkes]

I meant by the Democratic party as you claimed earlier.

Well, they've spent the past decade stoking the flame of social issues that were mostly very minor in the 00s, such as trans, pushing for LGBTQ+ education in school, affirmative action programs, DEI hiring policies, etc.

If you want a link, here it is: https://democrats.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/FINAL-MASTER-PLATFORM.pdf

Based on your Overton Window comments, one would think that these things don't currently 'belong' within such a window, however Democrats are pushing for them to be included, based on the linked document. Such policies would be considered left/far-left(especially in regards to issues such as trans), which is why I'm saying they're left-leaning.

Personally, I agree with a lot of the policies in this document, even the ones outside the Overton Window but based on USA election results and how people voted, it appears the majority of people who voted in the recent election do not and think they shouldn't be included in said Window.

I do find it amusing that on page 24 there's a section on corporate greed, when most big corporations in the USA appear to donate to the Democrats over the Republicans.

 

[.Shotties.]

Well, they've spent the past decade stoking the flame of social issues that were mostly very minor in the 00s, such as trans, pushing for LGBTQ+ education in school, affirmative action programs, DEI hiring policies, etc.'

It'd be great if you could speak in specifics on this. Which democrative policies and initiatives have been 'stoking the flame of trans'? You have a very determined outlook on this, so I assume you've at least read a bit widely and there have been some clear, concrete examples that have built your outlook on this.

If you want a link, here it is: https://democrats.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/FINAL-MASTER-PLATFORM.pdf

Great, appreciate you posting a 92 page document you clearly haven't read yourself. Highlight the text in there that supports your statement above.

Based on your Overton Window comments, one would think that these things don't currently 'belong' within such a window, however Democrats are pushing for them to be included, based on the linked document. Such policies would be considered left/far-left(especially in regards to issues such as trans), which is why I'm saying they're left-leaning.
Personally, I agree with a lot of the policies in this document, even the ones outside the Overton Window but based on USA election results and how people voted, it appears the majority of people who voted in the recent election do not and think they shouldn't be included in said Window.

Can you be honest, had you heard of the Overton window before this conversation? Parties and lawmakers don't push to include anything in it. It's a description of public perception of ideas.

"The most common misconception is that lawmakers themselves are in the business of shifting the Overton window. That is absolutely false. Lawmakers are actually in the business of detecting where the window is"

I do find it amusing that on page 24 there's a section on corporate greed, when most big corporations in the USA appear to donate to the Democrats over the Republicans.

Yes, because the Democratic party of the US is NOT a leftist party that pushes leftist policy.

 

[bzparkes]

It'd be great if you could speak in specifics on this. Which democrative policies and initiatives have been 'stoking the flame of trans'? You have a very determined outlook on this, so I assume you've at least read a bit widely and there have been some clear, concrete examples that have built your outlook on this.

Have you been living under a rock?

Great, appreciate you posting a 92 page document you clearly haven't read yourself. Highlight the text in there that supports your statement above.

I read the parts that stood out to me. If you're too lazy to do it yourself, that's on you. You're the one that wanted a link, so I gave it to you.

Can you be honest, had you heard of the Overton window before this conversation?

Yes. Do you know what it is, or is it a buzzword you picked up?

Yes, because the Democratic party of the US is NOT a leftist party that pushes leftist policy.

Yes, they are.

 

[.Shotties.]

Have you been living under a rock?

Answer the question, please.

I read the parts that stood out to me. If you're too lazy to do it yourself, that's on you. You're the one that wanted a link, so I gave it to you.

Great, so highlight the parts that helped form the opinion that the Democratic party has been 'stoking the fires of trans'.

Yes.

Clearly you don't, given you talk about political parties trying to include things in it.

Do you know what it is, or is it a buzzword you picked up?

Yeah, it's a measure of the perception of ideas, hence as I said above:

Parties and lawmakers don't push to include anything in it.
"The most common misconception is that lawmakers themselves are in the business of shifting the Overton window. That is absolutely false. Lawmakers are actually in the business of detecting where the window is"

Yes, they are.

So we wheel back again, what is their actual, enacted leftist policty?

 

[bzparkes]

Answer the question, please.

Great, so highlight the parts that helped form the opinion that the Democratic party has been 'stoking the fires of trans'.

Clearly you don't, given you talk about political parties trying to include things in it.

Yeah, it's a measure of the perception of ideas, hence as I said above:

Parties and lawmakers don't push to include anything in it.
"The most common misconception is that lawmakers themselves are in the business of shifting the Overton window. That is absolutely false. Lawmakers are actually in the business of detecting where the window is"

So we wheel back again, what is their actual, enacted leftist policty?

Happy for you to provide a counter stance to my argument, backed up with links and policy btw.

Also if you actually believe that quote regarding the Overton policy, then you're more gullible than I thought.

 

[.Shotties.]

Happy for you to provide a counter stance to my argument, backed up with links and policy btw.

I'm sure you are, however you're the one making very definitive statements about what the Dems stand for. I would like to see what you're basing this on. Which of the

Also if you actually believe that quote regarding the Overton policy, then you're more gullible than I thought.

Yeah, what would Joseph Lehman know about the topic?

 

[bzparkes]

I'm sure you are, however you're the one making very definitive statements about what the Dems stand for. I would like to see what you're basing this on. Which of the

Yeah, what would Joseph Lehman know about the topic?

Again, happy to hear your thoughts on where they stand, other than 'they're not left' instead of you trying to convince everyone you're the smartest person in the room, yet not actually providing an opinion worth considering.

 

[.Shotties.]

Again, happy to hear your thoughts on where they stand, other than 'they're not left'

I don't doubt it, and we can get to get to that after you've detailed the actions the Dems have taken or policies they have which sorry your claim that they have"far left" ideals or similar.

Otherwise it just seems like a but of a diversion that you can't single out a single piece of concrete support for your claim.
Surely by now you've had time to control-f the Dems policy document you posted without reading.

 

[bzparkes]

I don't doubt it, and we can get to get to that after you've detailed the actions the Dems have taken or policies they have which sorry your claim that they have"far left" ideals or similar.

Otherwise it just seems like a but of a diversion that you can't single out a single piece of concrete support for your claim.
Surely by now you've had time to control-f the Dems policy document you posted without reading.

Just present your side and we can discuss it compared to mine. It's not hard.

 

[.Shotties.]

Just present your side and we can discuss it compared to mine. It's not hard.

I have. I'm saying you're incorrect and you have no evidence to support it, as shown by you refusing to present anything concrete five times now. Us discussing it would involve you bringing up literally anything (or at least something you've read rather than heard on Joe Rogan) which supports your statements.

 

[bzparkes]

I have. I'm saying you're incorrect and you have no evidence to support it, as shown by you refusing to present anything concrete five times now. Us discussing it would involve you bringing up literally anything (or at least something you've read rather than heard on Joe Rogan) which supports your statements.

No, I want you to present your opinion on what the initial discussion was, or point me to it at least.

All we've done is a culmination of you going "Source?, Source?!" then saying you're too lazy to read the source.

 

[.Shotties.]

No, I want you to present your opinion on what the initial discussion was, or point me to it at least.

Yeah, I know you do, that's because it's easier than having to substantiate wear you've been saying.

All we've done is a culmination of you going "Source?, Source?!" then saying you're too lazy to read the source.

Haha, you haven't read your own source though. You presented a 92 page document and in ten-odd responses then, have been completely unable to show how it shows the Democratic party is a far left entity, has far left policies or anything similar.

Why not just post what you have? Seems like a pretty straight forward thing to do. As I said, surely you're basing your opinion on something tangible.

 

[bzparkes]

Yeah, I know you do, that's because it's easier than having to substantiate wear you've been saying.

Haha, you haven't read your own source though. You presented a 92 page document and in ten-odd responses then, have been completely unable to show how it shows the Democratic party is a far left entity, has far left policies or anything similar.

Present to me your argument, or I'll just assume you're a shit talker who doesn't have one.

Because it's becoming more and more obvious that that's what you are.

Deflect, deflect, deflect.

 

[.Shotties.]

Present to me your argument, or I'll just assume you're a shit talker who doesn't have one.

Assume whatever you want.

Deflect, deflect, deflect.

Still haven't found anything showing them Dems "stoking the fire of trans" hey?

 

[bzparkes]

Assume whatever you want.

Still haven't found anything showing them Dems "stoking the fire of trans" hey?

Still haven't found anything to prove me wrong, eh?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Still haven't found anything to prove me wrong, eh?

With all due respect (and I find you one of the most respectful BF posters that I do disagree with) I think the other poster is right. You made certain claims and the best you’ve done when asked to substantiate them is a link to a 92 page document.

Onus isn’t on them to prove you wrong when you have yet to prove yourself right.

 

[bzparkes]

With all due respect (and I find you one of the most respectful BF posters that I do disagree with) I think the other poster is right. You made certain claims and the best you’ve done when asked to substantiate them is a link to a 92 page document.

Onus isn’t on them to prove you wrong when you have yet to prove yourself right.

You're absolutely right but when one of his opening arguments was "You don't know Overton Windows, so you aren't smart enough for this discussion" then I really can't be bothered trying to discuss anything in good faith, especially when they are only interested in nitpicking and refuse to provide any argument to attempt to discuss.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Huh? Just watch any CNN or MSNBC panel show.

Or, if you want to subject yourself to it, watch The View.

No chance that CNN and MSNBC is Far Left. It only seems that way because the middle is so far to the left of your Far Right favourites. And that they actively oppose the Far Right and don't pander to their bullshit. Lukewarm water is going to feel very heated after you've had your hand in icy cold water.

You want Far Left? Radio stations such as 3RRR or 3PBS are typically left leaning, probably the closest to what you're invisaging, and even JJJ is considerably to the left of centre. Or maybe they're woke? - I'm not sure the difference.

 

[.Shotties.]

You're absolutely right but when one of his opening arguments was "You don't know Overton Windows, so you aren't smart enough for this discussion"

Not only was that not my opening statement, it wasn't even something I said.

then I really can't be bothered trying to discuss anything in good faith, especially when they are only interested in nitpicking and refuse to provide any argument to attempt to discuss.

Nitpicking? Mate, I disagreed with your statements calling the U.S. Dems left / far left and asked you what you based it on. You yourself even pointed out that they didn't campaign on a left-wing / progressive platform and that they take huge corprate donations. Add in their constant appealing to 'moderate republicans' and wheeling out Dick Cheney of all people and that at least should get your alarm bells ringing.

 

[Ghost Patrol is a stooge]

Not only was that not my opening statement, it wasn't even something I said.

Nitpicking? Mate, I disagreed with your statements calling the U.S. Dems left / far left and asked you what you based it on. You yourself even pointed out that they didn't campaign on a left-wing / progressive platform and that they take huge corprate donations. Add in their constant appealing to 'moderate republicans' and wheeling out Dick Cheney of all people and that at least should get your alarm bells ringing.

Democrats are the left you idiot, just because they whored themselves to try win an election by pandering to the "basket of deplorables" only proves they're hypocrites.

Now go, go forward with the knowledge that politics is a whore.

 

[.Shotties.]

Democrats are the left you idiot

Yeah, an entity that more often then not success against workers rights, constantly looks for market based solutions, runs on funding from massive corporations and takes no action on public services is very left wing.

 

[Cyclops]

Sounds like some of you guys need to get your visas and nick off to the US.

Way off topic for an aussie rules site. If you wanna import trouble from elsewhere you can piss right off.

We've got our own idiots to worry about.