Opinion Mick Malthouse MEGA THREAD

[Dramoth]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yep I am wrong - you guys are being completely rational. I did not come onto this thread looking for a fight but was disappointed in how some are going on about MM - the reason being that I cannot see how this board is going to function once he is made coach. There have been exaggerated claims that Ratts has been knifed on this board for 5yrs - there may have been a couple of posters but find me a board where there are not a couple do that sort of crap. In the future however I predict that this will be commonplace as some of our biggest posters are so vehemently against MM coaching. I will give up now - yeah I said that your Ratts avatar was disrespectful - if you can say that and seriously argue that my words suggested 'disrespect' (who the bloody hell to?) I would not even be sure you would agree our jumpers to be navy blue
You can have last shot because I know you are in that mood - I am done for tonight

I got this one... because I am the one who made the claim.

There have been people bitching about the appointment of Ratts as soon as he was announced as the interium coach (Nutcase888). They continued after he was announced as the permanent senior coach and continued up until the moment he was sacked this week.

The main culprits for my claim about Ratts being knifed for the past 5 years are BRIB, THS, GS, DBlues and MCB. Nutcase, after his initial bitching about the appointment of Ratten, actually came out and said that he would back the coach no matter what his feelings towards him were. And in all the time that Ratten has been coach, Nutcase has stuck to his word and has backed the coach despite what he feels towards him.

There has been a significant faction on this board who has continued, since Ratts first games as senior coach, to cry for his sacking (usually after a loss).

And as for MM... he hasnt been appointed as coach as yet. We can continue to talk about Ratts because he is the still the coach until the time he walks out of the stadium tomorrow night.

As for your comment about the biggest posters being vehemently against MM coaching... I'm not against him coaching... ODN and Aphro and MSR and TG and Thy and the rest of us arent against him coaching. We just dont feel that he is a part of the Carlton fold. He doesnt have a history with the club.

HOWEVER... as soon as he is appointed coach, we will support the clubs decision and back the coach. We did it with Pagan when he was appointed following the sacking of Brittain... we did it with Parkin's when he came to the club in 1981, and as ODN said... he was known to the supporters as that Hawthorn guy until the end of 1982 after he had won his second premiership in a row with the club. Now he is a club legend.

There will always be a bit of bad blood about the way he replaced Ratts... but if he brings success back to the club... that will fade with time and if he brings multiple premierships during his time at the club... he will become a club legend as well.

So yes... there will be muttering and murmurings about Malthouse if he is appointed... but there will be none of the clamoring for his sacking from the bunch of people I mentioned above like there was for the sacking of Ratts from the group I first mentioned.

If Malthouse is appointed our coach... he will get our support because we are first and foremost Carlton supporters and the CLUB is everything to us.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

I'm not happy with losing Ratten, or the way he was treated. But I've been through a few things in life that have forced me to move on and when I put that into perspective, I can find the ability to just accept that he's gone.

What I won't accept is the club lying to its supporters and treating them like fools. Gonna take me a long time to get over this. If Malthouse doesn't deliver I'm not sure I ever will. I appreciate that they want things to change and they're willing to take risks, but the way they've handled it is very amateur like and imo disrespectful.

Putting aside that you don't agree with the sacking, how else do you think they should have handled it ?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Putting aside that you don't agree with the sacking, how else do you think they should have handled it ?

He can answer for himself, but for me .... either don't say you will review everything after the season, or actually review everything after the season. I'm guessing that is why Sticks tried so hard not to call it a review initially. It was alluded to that the board had concerns over our consistency as far back as the Port game, so they were entertaining sacking Ratten one quarter of the way through his two year extension. That is kneejerk. If he had their backing last year, why did they panic at the first sign of trouble 6 months later? If they were unsure last year, why did they extend his contract? They really can't have it both ways. They stuffed up somewhere.

Did they ask Ratten how he was going to address the consistency issues? Did Ratten want to drop a high profile player? Did they board have any input into player selection? Were the injuries a legitimate excuse for many of our performances? Did they review the Qatar decision? Did they have a psychologist come in? Did they have a frank and honest chat after poor performances? I know Sticks admitted he has had words with the players, so they do this when it suits.

The way they have done this is painted it as a process, but then not carried out the process. Despite the injuries, they only baulked thinking we might make the finals and even then they were looking to see if Ratten would win 1 or 2 finals. I would have thought finals would have been a great achievement given the season we had.

No, they needed a higher profile, one that might sell memberships and bring in sponsors and nothing short of a miracle was ever going to save Ratten.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

He can answer for himself, but for me .... either don't say you will review everything after the season, or actually review everything after the season. I'm guessing that is why Sticks tried so hard not to call it a review initially. It was alluded to that the board had concerns over our consistency as far back as the Port game, so they were entertaining sacking Ratten one quarter of the way through his two year extension. That is kneejerk. If he had their backing last year, why did they panic at the first sign of trouble 6 months later? If they were unsure last year, why did they extend his contract? They really can't have it both ways. They stuffed up somewhere.

Did they ask Ratten how he was going to address the consistency issues? Did Ratten want to drop a high profile player? Did they board have any input into player selection? Were the injuries a legitimate excuse for many of our performances? Did they review the Qatar decision? Did they have a psychologist come in? Did they have a frank and honest chat after poor performances? I know Sticks admitted he has had words with the players, so they do this when it suits.

The way they have done this is painted it as a process, but then not carried out the process. Despite the injuries, they only baulked thinking we might make the finals and even then they were looking to see if Ratten would win 1 or 2 finals. I would have thought finals would have been a great achievement given the season we had.

No, they needed a higher profile, one that might sell memberships and bring in sponsors and nothing short of a miracle was ever going to save Ratten.

Some good points. I suppose I was specifically referring to the actual sacking and press conference. I thought this was handled as well as it could have been. There are points such as has MM been approached which they have to lie about at this stage as much out of respect to Ratten. Hird was the same as Essendon. You can hardly get on the TV and say 'Hey, were talking to Mick, if he says yes then Ratts is gone, if No then Ratts can stay !'. In life sometimes you have to lie (eg: when your wife asks 'do this dress make my arse look big !'

However I agree that overall, starting from last year, perhaps things could have been handled better. To me, they had these doubts, and basically made the decision not continue with Ratts last year but there were no obvious coaching candidates available for 2012 so they decided they would stick with Ratts for this year. If they gave him a 1 year 'extension' it would have been too obvious and the pressure would have been on from the start so they gave him 2 years knowing they were probably going to have to pay it out.

I'm hoping they've arranged a Jeannie or Mathieson to pony up the money for this ??

 

[The Flying Doormat]

True players and coaches change, bit raw still.

However....I have some Colingwood customers, one stomps in today, "so what can't you guys think for yourselves"....

So the pie folk don't like it already.

Add Eddie's constant sniping about the salary cap and MM's alleged health issues, you know this is going to take the Carlton Collingwood hatred to a whole new level. Vlad must be licking his lips.

 

[Blue Flame]

you're not Thy, you cannot pull it off

We love it here when thylacine60 pulls it off. Take off some more baby!

 

[Tanks_Alot]

Some good points. I suppose I was specifically referring to the actual sacking and press conference. I thought this was handled as well as it could have been. There are points such as has MM been approached which they have to lie about at this stage as much out of respect to Ratten. Hird was the same as Essendon. You can hardly get on the TV and say 'Hey, were talking to Mick, if he says yes then Ratts is gone, if No then Ratts can stay !'. In life sometimes you have to lie (eg: when your wife asks 'do this dress make my arse look big !'

However I agree that overall, starting from last year, perhaps things could have been handled better. To me, they had these doubts, and basically made the decision not continue with Ratts last year but there were no obvious coaching candidates available for 2012 so they decided they would stick with Ratts for this year. If they gave him a 1 year 'extension' it would have been too obvious and the pressure would have been on from the start so they gave him 2 years knowing they were probably going to have to pay it out.

I'm hoping they've arranged a Jeannie or Mathieson to pony up the money for this ??

As a club, we are never going to move forward like this. We can't expect wealthy people to keep on covering for our incompetence.

To me, Kernahan is lacking direction lately, he doesn't know how to answer questions, you can tell he doesn't want to lie, but you know he feels like he has to because of the idiots pulling the strings.

There was no need to say "I hope Ratts is coaching next year" absolutely no need and the wrong thing to say and he knows this too, because he quickly went and changed his tune on the EMT show. It shows you have a president who is unsure of himself and unsure about which direction he wants to lead the club. Remember it was less than a year ago that the decision was made to give Ratts another 2 years, if you were sure after last season, why aren't you sure half way through the very next season???

You can't say that "we haven't spoken to Mick" and then go and say "(awkward pause) it's a close call" when asked if Mick's availability had something to do with the decision to axe Ratts. You don't sack your coach on the basis that another guy might be available, no way they would've just risked throwing away 500k like that. Surely he would've known he was going to get asked about Mick's involvement, surely they could've prepared something to the tune of "We don't know if Mick's available because we haven't spoken to him yet". It took me a couple of seconds to come up with that answer (that's half the time of the pause).

The only reason the press conference was handled well was because Ratten took it like a man and showed class. Malthouse would've sooked and started blabbering on triple M about how bad the club treated him I can assure you of this.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

**** off... you've already had your pound of flesh...

If we dont get Malthouse, it's because the board decided there was a better option out there... but then again... they may just be trolling you considering how much you bitch and moan and they dont want you to be bored!

Hey Dram, I agree with BRIB; but not in the way you have taken it. If this whole MM circus fails to eventuate, then Swann and Sticks will look REALLY stupid - if they are half as honourable as Ratts, then they will leave.

 

[Silvagnis]

Life of Mick, Blue messiah?: Tim Lane

As ever, Carlton is acting for the here and now. Replacing coaches is in its DNA; doing hard yards towards a longer-term objective is not.

Having enjoyed Sunday afternoons this season in Mick's company in the 3AW commentary box, I have no doubt he still wants to coach. If it's a drug and he's coming down, I suspect he has a long way to go.

The club, for its part, would do well to consider its past pattern of coaching appointments. Its devotion to the messiah cult remains undiminished. Barassi, Stewart, Parkin, Walls and Pagan were all brought from outside to produce instant results. To that list the name Malthouse is soon likely to be added. Thus far, the results are a mixed bag.

In thinking long term, and looking for a model, the Blues need look no further than the team on top of the AFL ladder. In 2005, the Hawks took a major risk on a coach with no profile. They accepted a 32 per cent win rate through two seasons of rebuilding, won a flag two years later, and may win another this year. On current indications, it's likely they have a 10-year-plus coach. It's a reward for their courage, conviction and clear thinking.

It was the type of appointment Carlton of the past 50 years would never have made.

Life of Mick, Blue messiah?: Tim Lane

Agreed.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

Why is Choco a nutter? What is the definition of 'nutter'?.........................................

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Life of Mick, Blue messiah?: Tim Lane

Life of Mick, Blue messiah?: Tim Lane

Agreed.

Wonder why Tim didn't also quote how Brisbane (Voss), Port Adelaide (Primus), Melbourne(Bailey), Western Bulldogs (Rhode), Essendon (Knights) and Fremantle (Connelly/Harvey) did with their courageous appointments.

For Clarkson like success there is 3 or 4 failures.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

Wonder why Tim didn't also quote how Brisbane (Voss), Port Adelaide (Primus), Melbourne(Bailey), Western Bulldogs (Rhode), Essendon (Knights) and Fremantle (Connelly/Harvey) did with their courageous appointments.

For Clarkson like success there is 3 or 4 failures.

Rhode got a horrible list and didn't get much of a go iinm he was gone after 3 years?

Harvey, Knights, Primus were never given much time either.

I think what he meant was they backed their decision and stuck with Clarkson.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Wonder why Tim didn't also quote how Brisbane (Voss), Port Adelaide (Primus), Melbourne(Bailey), Western Bulldogs (Rhode), Essendon (Knights) and Fremantle (Connelly/Harvey) did with their courageous appointments.

For Clarkson like success there is 3 or 4 failures.

True, but then how did Barassi go coaching Melbourne and Sydney? Blight at St Kilda? Walls at Brisbane and Richmond? Jezza at St Kilda? The messiah strike rate isn't that great either.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

True, but then how did Barassi go coaching Melbourne and Sydney? Blight at St Kilda? Walls at Brisbane and Richmond? Jezza at St Kilda? The messiah strike rate isn't that great either.

Suggest you watch Open Mike with Wallsy and get a good idea of how hard it was to coach that team.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Suggest you watch Open Mike with Wallsy and get a good idea of how hard it was to coach that team.

I watched it. Just citing examples of premiership winning coaches being taken on pretty much for that reason.

 

[Silvagnis]

Wonder why Tim didn't also quote how Brisbane (Voss), Port Adelaide (Primus), Melbourne(Bailey), Western Bulldogs (Rhode), Essendon (Knights) and Fremantle (Connelly/Harvey) did with their courageous appointments.

For Clarkson like success there is 3 or 4 failures.

Should we just keep "reheating" the same coaching group and forget about new blood?

For every Parkin who came back to Carlton and won a flag, there's a few premiership coaches such as Pagan (Carlton), Blight (St Kilda) and Walls (Richmond) who failed after getting a coaching appointment on reputation.

Using your argument, Worsfold shouldn't have replaced Judge, Clarkson shouldn't have replaced Schwab, Williams shouldn't have replaced Cahill, Roos shouldn't have replaced Eade and Scott shouldn't have replaced Thompson. All five are now premiership coaches who have stamped their own mark on the game and their clubs.

There's more than one way to skin a cat if you need a coach.

We can only hope Malthouse is like Leigh Matthews who spent some time in the media before returning to coaching at Brisbane. Shame we don't have an influx of Fitzroy's best players, Jonathan Brown as a future F/S pick and a larger salary cap at our disposal to win three flags.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

Wonder why Tim didn't also quote how Brisbane (Voss), Port Adelaide (Primus), Melbourne(Bailey), Western Bulldogs (Rhode), Essendon (Knights) and Fremantle (Connelly/Harvey) did with their courageous appointments.

For Clarkson like success there is 3 or 4 failures.

Spot on. Add Cornes/R.Shaw/Craig (Adelaide), Gieshen/Frawley (Richmond), Watson/Thomas (St Kilda), Peter Knights/Ken Judge/Peter Schwab (Hawthorn) to the list. Oh yea, T.Shaw

 

[Blue Flame]

Suggest you watch Open Mike with Wallsy and get a good idea of how hard it was to coach that team.

I watched it. Just citing examples of premiership winning coaches being taken on pretty much for that reason.

Wait... Was he our WonderWall?

 

[AndyLucimitis]

True, but then how did Barassi go coaching Melbourne and Sydney? Blight at St Kilda? Walls at Brisbane and Richmond? Jezza at St Kilda? The messiah strike rate isn't that great either.

Totally agree with you and that was the point I was trying to make. Neither option - getting the messiah or riding it out with an apprentice - is guaranteed to work.

I guess I just rail against this constant reference that because we have replaced a coach after five years it's Carlton being caught in an '80's time warp'. We could get MM and go nowhere - we just don't know. We could also have stuck with Ratts and spun our wheels for 3-4 more years.

I don't have blind faith in Sticks and Swann but I trust that they have seen (or rather not seen) something in Ratten where they don't believe he can improve this team.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Totally agree with you and that was the point I was trying to make. Neither option - getting the messiah or riding it out with an apprentice - is guaranteed to work.

I guess I just rail against this constant reference that because we have replaced a coach after five years it's Carlton being caught in an '80's time warp'. We could get MM and go nowhere - we just don't know. We could also have stuck with Ratts and spun our wheels for 3-4 more years.

I don't have blind faith in Sticks and Swann but I trust that they have seen (or rather not seen) something in Ratten where they don't believe he can improve this team.

I'm not an advocate for the time warp theory either. Someone started a thread of sorts saying that on the main board today, and I argued against it. We have few imported players, and every second coach is basically promoted from within or a former Carlton man.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

True, but then how did Barassi go coaching Melbourne and Sydney? Blight at St Kilda? Walls at Brisbane and Richmond? Jezza at St Kilda? The messiah strike rate isn't that great either.

Fair point however Barassi did a fair job of saving Sydney and starting the rebuild. Blight did not want the job at St Kilda, only the money and did deliver two miracles for the crows. It seems he was only human in lucking out on a 3rd with the Saints.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I also suggest that Voss, Buckley and Hird, although untried coaches are still part of the messiah appointment group.

 

[Dramoth]

Life of Mick, Blue messiah?: Tim Lane

Life of Mick, Blue messiah?: Tim Lane

Agreed.

Ummm... why does this paragraph give me a bit of concern?

The club, for its part, would do well to consider its past pattern of coaching appointments. Its devotion to the messiah cult remains undiminished. Barassi, Stewart, Parkin, Walls and Pagan were all brought from outside to produce instant results. To that list the name Malthouse is soon likely to be added. Thus far, the results are a mixed bag.

Barassi - joined as captain/coach and was hired as coach because Harris was desperate to have him at the club. Took him 4 seasons to win the premiership. Was an inexperienced coach when we hired him.
Stewart - lasted half a season... got the job because he got the Swans into the finals for the first time in 32 years...
Parkin - Apart from Pagan was the only premiership coach we hired from outside the club. Won the flag at Hawthorn.
Walls - was an inexperienced coach when he started at Fitzroy, moved to the Blues as a coach swap with Parkin and got us into the 86 grand final only to lose to the Dawks and in 87 took us all the way. Is a blue blood all the way.
Pagan - an experienced premiership coach who was handed the impossible task thanks to Jack and his brown paper bags. By the time his tenure at the club had finished, he had proved that he was out of touch with the modern game by continuing to try and play a one dimensional forward line and Pagan's paddock.

So out of that list... the club showed great restraint with RDB. We gave him 4 seasons to win the flag. We got in someone who clashed with club favourites and saw other players leaving because of his strict manner.

I think that some of our benefactors still live in the messiah cult because they were the ones, rightly or wrongly, pushed the club into sacking Ratts and trying to get in a 'big name' coach like Malthouse.

Dont get me wrong... I want the club to have success... but I also want the club to plan for serious long term success. Getting in Malthouse on a 3 year contract seriously smacks of our elderly benefactors wanting to see another grand final win before they drop off the perch.

just sayin

 

[JustaBattler]

View attachment 3194

A great moment in Footie actually- I cheered for Choco and Port when i saw that..

 

[Big Red is back]

Let's all just get behind Malthouse

The club took time to realise what many of us have known for two years or so

Which is ratten doesn't have the structures or game style to win us a flag

The beauty of his appointment is one way or the other we will find out if this side can win a flag, mm great strength is extracting the best out of each player and his game structures are always industry leading