Mick Malthouse

[thylacine60]

Nice to think hope over-road dollars but a tad naive I'm afraid.

 

[Kensa Carter]

Nice to think hope over-road dollars but a tad naive I'm afraid.

Pleasantly and knowingly naive. If I didn't have hope and naivete, I think it would be very hard being a Carlton supporter!

We follow a competition where players often make decisions against their financial incentive to stay/sign for clubs (Travis Cloke, Harry Taylor etc). I just hope that Carlton becomes one of those clubs one day, instead of our current culture of buying solutions to problems (Pagan, Judd, MM etc).

 

[jj1978]

Have you seen the original karate kid? Miyagi (Malthouse) is getting the list to, wax on wax off, sand the floor, paint the fence, paint the house... Whilst some players and supporters are going wtf????

First teach defence and then teach attack... Next year all these taggers will be assigned their midfield roles and will be able to seamlessly switch between defence and attack mode... Hendo, Watson, Waite, Walker will seamlessly switch between defence and forward... Yarran, garlett, betts won't be writing 600k tickets in themselves... And players who deem that they deserve to be best 22 but aren't getting a game will probably be shipped out or have to learn to get in The 22 you need to earn it under Mick.

Our teams fragile mindset, it's Jekyll and Hyde modes are slowly dissipating and next year I pray we see what mick is trying to achieve....

 

[chunkylover53]

Mixed feelings. Said this in another thread but I'll say it here.

I spoke to an assistant coach from Melbourne not long ago and he explained to me that under Neeld the players were always told to defend, defend, defend. Under Bailey these young kids were attacking players who enjoyed their footy and played with confidence - or it was bust, they were no good and got belted. Neeld came in and they were told to defend, so when they would get the ball, the players would lose all confidence and simply not move, be completely stationary. If you have been to a Melbourne game you would know what I'm on about. This was because they would be scared to lose their man in case of a turnover.

I kind of see us in a similar phase, under Ratten, on their day, the blues were quick, electrifying and could kill any team on any day. Playing a free flowing attacking game plan. Malthouse has come in with a more defensive approach, and it seems it doesn't suit a lot of our list. Last night I thought they lost a heap of confidence after they made a few blues and started to become stationary, the Collingwood game was the worst for this. It also seems a few of them just don't look like they're enjoying their footy. Eddie, Jeffy and Yaz, Murphy in particular.

You have to take into account that when a club commits to a coach and their game plan, the club drafts according to that coaches plan, which would explain our excessive amount of undersized quick, skilful players, that was Rattens game plan and those were the players he wanted to execute it.

Malthouse clearly isn't on the same page as Ratten was (which is fine). But it just worries me that at this stage last year, Ratten had us in a similar position with half a VFL side. It just shows that Rattens game plan suited our list better (although I still don't think Rattens game plan would have taken us to numero 17). By the time the list is moulded and on the same page and ready for contention (if that's what they're aiming for? Anyone know our direction at the moment? Worrying about Richmondesque wilderness), Scotland, Carrazzo, Waite, Judd will be gone, our captain and the rest of our best current crop will be 28-30 years old. Just praying we nail these coming draft picks.

As for the Yarran subject, heard from a few people that he is to be definently traded at the end of the year, can only think that we'd be keeping his currency at a reasonable level. Can't get much for a VFL player.

Anyways for now I have full faith in Mick, the club would surely be shitty that we've paid $1m for a bloke then miss the 8 again. Personally I'm just a tad concerned that the list is going to take a lot more time to adapt to Micks ways than I originally thought.

 

[Jeremias]

After the results of this weekend, we are now odds on to miss out on finals football for a second season in a row, ignoring what may come from the Essendon saga. Two years in a row now we'll have fallen well short and that is, of course, bitterly disappointing whichever way you look at it. However, I certainly feel more buoyed by the club and its direction this year than I did last, and that is largely due to who we have watching over the club from the coaches box.

Mick Malthouse is a terrific coach and he has shown that over a prolonged period of time. I have no doubt that he's still one of the best in the business, not just for what he instructs on-field but also for what he brings off it. With him comes a professionalism that we have not experienced in quite some time.

MM knows what it takes to take a team to the top. He knows what it takes to lift the standards and performances of a club - and he's here for that very reason. On-field performance is ultimately only part of that. As HARKER alluded to above, there are certain parts of our structure off the field that have not been up to standard, and already we've seen improvements in certain areas during his short tenure at the helm.

We've not had a good season and we're ultimately going to fall short of the expectations of many, but this failure is not the same as last season. This failure was, to some extent, expected under a new regime. Many may have hoped that we would 'click' immediately under Malthouse, but that wasn't a realistic expectation. These things take time and are a gradual process rather than an immediate result. It is a process, it takes time and it won't be a finished product for quite some time but improvements along the way do present and are clear. Already we've seen an improvement in our consistency, our competitiveness and the alignment between our senior side and our VFL side. Individually these things are relatively minor, but when put together they form something much larger.

Whether or not Malthouse ultimately delivers us a premiership, he's the right man to take us forward. Much like Judd, he's a successful 'recruit' regardless of whether we go all the way with him on board. He'll sweep the place clean on and off the field over the next few years and we'll be better for his presence because he knows what it takes to build success.

Yes it is disappointing that we likely won't be playing finals and yes, many will consider MM's appointment to be a failure as a result but that is certainly not the case as far as I am concerned. His appointment forms the part of a bigger picture and we've already made slight advancements on that front.

 

[mediumsizered]

Pleasantly and knowingly naive. If I didn't have hope and naivete, I think it would be very hard being a Carlton supporter!

We follow a competition where players often make decisions against their financial incentive to stay/sign for clubs (Travis Cloke, Harry Taylor etc). I just hope that Carlton becomes one of those clubs one day, instead of our current culture of buying solutions to problems (Pagan, Judd, MM etc).

Don't be too quick to applaud Collingwood & Travis Cloke. Take away his 5 year deal with Channel 9 (of course Eddie had nothing to do with this, clearly he is future newsreader/morning show host material) & Cloke would not be at Collingwood now.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

Two stories to follow and contrast- Port / Hinklley & Carlton / Malthouse.
Malthouse, like the Carlton hierarchy, overrated the list last year hence the lack of real action on the trade front. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt in that unlike Port Adelaide, theory was that we were about the place, just needed a fit list, a new coach and some luck to make it deep into September.
What Port Adelaide have achieved with a new coach and a much revamped list is nothing short of a miracle. I think ours will be 12 months delayed.

 

[gbatman]

Malthouse's style and game plan is uncovering all the second rate players and weaknesses in the team. Ratten did a good job of covering them up and compensating for our deficiencies and sweeping them under the rug and making a team with poor depth, average players and no structure work. IMO this is not a good thing because you will never build the ultimate list with filler players and playing in a way that you can get around your weaknesses. From what I see there is nowhere to hide for our second rate players and our terrible team structure sticks out under Malthouse's plan. It's exactly what needs to happen. Ratten built a list of second rate players and top up type players instead of a list of developing key players.

The structure and quality of the bottom half of our list it is very poor. The structure of our regular 22 is shocking. The young talent coming through is a shocking sign of mismanagement and poor list management. Our regular 22 is chock full of second rate top up players. Our top end class has become really ordinary and this is the big difference between us now and where we were in around 2011, mostly because of our poor record at recruiting gun onballer types.

Malthouse has a massive job to do. He has a list to rebuild and restructure for a start. Never mind the bullshit he feeds to the media, that's how he's always been, never gives much away really. He doesn't care what he feeds them as it's not important to the team's success. What's going on at the club will be pretty clear. The players will know what is asked from them and how they are expected to do their job. Those that can't will not be hung onto. This will be one of the biggest cleanouts the club has ever seen and rightfully so. Ratten was very unsure of his list and whether a player was going to make it or if they were up to it against top teams in finals and it saw us miss out on trades and hold onto a lot of borerline players, Malthouse is not like this. It's not game plans or training that seperates the elite coaches from the rest, it's their list management and player judgement skills and we haven't had a chance to see that yet from Malthouse.

It's Malthouse's list management skills that will be the biggest difference between he and Ratten and as seasons go on we will start to see why he has been such a successful coach.

My advice, just sit back and watch the magic happen once the season ends and watch our list begin to take off in a few seasons time. And stop taking what Malthouse feeds the media so seriously.

To win a premiership I recon it's going to take quite a bit. Somewhere along the lines of cleaning out about 1/3 of our best 22 and half of our seconds thought this might be too aggressive to do in the one season but if you are looking at building a structure and removing the second rate players and ones who will not fit in a premiership team these are the numbers. I also have a feeling that to become a top 4 side that it will take 3 seasons under Malthouse.

 

[Artie Bucco]

Some great discussion in this thread.

I think it's pretty evident what Malthouse has brought with the defensive side of our game. We have a very even spread of contributors and are ever so slowly becoming less reliant on a few players to put in a good performance. It's very clear we have too many 'list clogger's on our list that will be delisted at seasons end and other top 22 players who don't fit into Malthouse's plans to be traded. I am expecting a good 10 players to be moved this season, hopefully load up on kids in the draft and take advantage of free agency.

I am very excited for how Malthouse can transform our side in 2014 and beyond, I don't think anybody realistically thought we would achieve much this season. Only concern is not putting more game time into some of the 18-20 year old players that will see us hopefully challenge in a couple of years, but hey I'm sure MM has a better idea than I do.

 

[gbatman]

Yeah I thought Menzel, Graham and Watson may have played a bit more but I think we are happy for them to develop in the VFL which I think is a good thing for developing how a player attacks the game. It's also been pretty clear that we have been going through an extended audition type process with our best 22 for spots on the list next year. Definitely getting a good look at those players who MM might not be quite sure about. Also the possible trades will be getting games and we will be trying to pump up their value. No point trying to trade players we keep dropping or can't get a game.

 

[MileHigh]

I think they major problem our playing group has (and as a result, our club) was mirrored at us perfectly against the Dockers. Same as the type of club Sydney was last year. They arent the best group in the world in terms of individual talent, but they are the best groups at working together, with a single minded game plan. They are focused and disciplined. Our clubs mentality in the past of just buying solution to problems doesnt cut it. You gotta have that culture to win. We just expect the big dollar purchases to come in and sort the issue out. The only hope that I have is with the big dollar purchase of Malthouse, he instills into our club the anti as to why he was brought in. Big dollars dont solve issues, your culture solves issues. I have hope (because thats all I have) that after this week against the Dockers and as they go back to watch the game over and over and they see how pressured they were with every possession and to go back and back and back just to get out that THATS what you need to do to win games, to make the top 4 (which the Dockers are now dont forget) and therefore challenge for a flag.

I felt stressed that whole game, and that was the Dockers that did that. You never felt we were in it, and when we hit the front it was a shock. You thought to yourself "shit we might get away with this". But you were kidding yourself, it was only a matter of time before they opened us up. And do you remember when that was? When the game was over. 4th quarter. They kicked about 4 points in a row, then about 5 or 6 goals.

 

[THE_GUN]

Hi Guys

Most on here are reflecting about 2013 and seem to think that this year is pretty much done and was a transition year for the club as well as a year for MM to have a good look at the players and change the game plan the carlton players were playing under ratten.

Now ill be open and admit that i never rated ratten as a coach,I always thought that when things were going his way it was ok but soon as there was a challeng or the tide turned - He was lost and confused as well as reacting well and truly after the horse had bolted.

The question i would like to as is this, With the likely hood of 9-12 changes in the list this year & another 8-10 next year (roughly 20 players in 2 years) with some of these players being your 'Better players' in Scotland,Waite,Simpson,Carrazzo,Judd all coming to there twighlight years

What happens if say at the end of the 2015 season Carlton are in a similar position on the ladder but with a younger list, Does mick deserve an extension ? and how long do you give him

personally speaking i believe mick malthouse could/should eventually get carlton to become a top 4-5-6 team but it wont be in the next 5 years possibly 6-7 year after this year

Would the Carlton board/pporters be prepared to give him that long to get there as he was really brought in to make instant improvement when first appointed

 

[Azul]

"The process" was the theme earlier in the year. At least Matty Watson is now getting a run...

Our 'best' will see us sneek into the finals next year but that would be a swansong for a number of players such as Judd, Simpson and Carrazzo. The real challenge is 2015 onwards - Does he have the ticker or are we looking at Pagan 2.0?

 

[Big Sim]

He has inherited a list which 2 years ago was speculated as Top 4, obviously it isn't, so I'm prepared to give him this year as a Work in Progress.

Being the new guy and all, he's given most a fair run, for sure he has identified deficiencies, come Trade Week/Month, he'll know what he needs to take this list further.

Hit the nail on the head Stig.

Our list peaked in 2011 and almost made a preliminary final. We played some breathtaking football along the way but never strung wins together and were bullied by the likes of Hawthorn and St Kilda. So many of us wrongly assumed that with a young list we would improve, get harder and more consistent and challenge.

I have no doubt that if we had blamed injuries for our decline out of the 8 last year and kept Rattan on we would be no better placed and his head would be on the block about now. The fact is our list is deficient in many areas and our depth is poor.

Malthouse has had to use this year to audition the list and he has done so. He has a plan and he needs a team that can and will play to it. At the end of the year he will keep those who fit the bill, get rid of those who don't, and recruit like mad to try and make us better.

He is good at this so I am happy that he is coach and look forward to what transpires at season's end.

 

[mediumsizered]

Two stories to follow and contrast- Port / Hinklley & Carlton / Malthouse.
Malthouse, like the Carlton hierarchy, overrated the list last year hence the lack of real action on the trade front. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt in that unlike Port Adelaide, theory was that we were about the place, just needed a fit list, a new coach and some luck to make it deep into September.
What Port Adelaide have achieved with a new coach and a much revamped list is nothing short of a miracle. I think ours will be 12 months delayed.

The lack of action on the trade front last year had nothing to do with overrating our list, but everything to do with a tight salary cap, made even tighter by the AFL's decision to suddenly no longer allow Judd's Visy payments to be exempted from our TPPs. The timing of this decision left the club having to quickly juggle our TPPs to avoid breaching the salary cap & no time to work on potential trades. I doubt Malthouse was under any misconception our list was good enough to challenge for Top 4, but he stuck to the party line when saying he was happy with the list as it was at the end of 2012.

 

[SE_Blue]

The lack of action on the trade front last year had nothing to do with overrating our list, but everything to do with a tight salary cap, made even tighter by the AFL's decision to suddenly no longer allow Judd's Visy payments to be exempted from our TPPs. The timing of this decision left the club having to quickly juggle our TPPs to avoid breaching the salary cap & no time to work on potential trades. I doubt Malthouse was under any misconception our list was good enough to challenge for Top 4, but he stuck to the party line when saying he was happy with the list as it was at the end of 2012.

This. Seem to remember hearing whispers around here he was none too impressed with having to keep on some of the fringe players for an extra year because they'd received two year deals under Ratten.

 

[Quazza]

withholding judgement until he gets an off season to ring in the changes he wants (which he didn't get this year)

This really isn't "his" list yet. I imagine he'll be after players that can play Malthouse football

BIG changes coming!

 

[HARKER]

This. Seem to remember hearing whispers around here he was none too impressed with having to keep on some of the fringe players for an extra year because they'd received two year deals under Ratten.

Yes, that was the case but that's history.

Mick and co. have already announced their intentions come seasons end and no-one will be able to say that they didn't know as to what was required of them.

 

[RedFury]

Remember going to a game at Etihad in 2011 when a defensive Swans coached by a first-year Longmire were completely dismantled by a skillful, fast running Blues. We let them score the first three goals before switching on, and then let them kick something like the last 4 in junk time. IF you took the bit in between, we outscored them something like 70-20. Surely we were on the way up and them on the way down? They actually looked set for a bit of time in the wilderness that year. Fast forward less than 18 months to September 2012 ......

All I'm saying is it can turn around faster than people think. Who predicted Geelong 2011 after their loss in 2010, surely it was over for them? We are on the right track with MM, we don't need a complete 'rebuild' as some media buffoons would suggest but we need a cleanout of about 8-10 players who either aren't good enough or can't handle MM's gameplan and expectations. Once we get the personnel right, which I'm confident we can do in 1-2 seasons we'll start to see some big improvement. Quite possibly early next year IMO.

 

[JustaBattler]

I see Malthouse in context of a bigger picture - loved Ratten because of his link to Carlton - but he was never going to manage teh complexities of a huge business enterpise which is what a successful AFL Club is.

Too many Carlton supporters have been in la-la land for too many years /decades now actually, over rating the ability of a Club to buy solutions and jag a flag; this thinking has dulled the senses and put a fog over simple logic year in year out - year after year after year.

The disaster of the salary cap affair should have underlined the importance of embracing the draft era and the importance of securing non-membership derived sources of financing football operations. Anyone with half a brain could have stopped over and actually checked out what the best League teams do in the UK or basketball/baseball/football teams do in the US to ensure top quartile performance against peers year in year out - no one bothered or if they did were ignored.

Carlton instead embraced the sooky sook mentality of a victim - and sadly kidded itself that it could continue on buying success which for some reason is a divine right of Carlton.

Meanwhile Clubs like Collingwood which were total disasters ten years ago, Geelong who were perennial failures and Hawthorn who were almost merged into extinction, embraced the reality of the need to "get corporate" and improve operational capability and look and learn from worlds best practice. Sydney who were the AFL's failed franchise revolutionised their approach to team and list development and management and building culture.

Malthouse is a symbol of a different approach from Carlton. Being able to afford a Malthouse is probably the best use of Carlton's generous beneficiary gift of poker revenue. We are in catch up mode to best practice - Rome wasn't built in a day and #17 won't come as easily as blinker visioned old Blue supporters hope or wish.

Fortunately, the draft era pretty much makes all teams equal in their ability to source talent - but less equal in their ability to retain and develop same. Carlton has the facilities to match the best Clubs now. Recruiting department has seen a massive increase in resources, the coaching panel will be improved, the list will be improved and consistency will come. We wont be repeating the errors of the past decade.

We are playing a catch up game it will take time - but that is ok, as long as Carlton continues to invest in quality people and sustainable process.

Yeah I am a fan of THE PROCESS which Carlton has to embrace- Malthouse is just part of it and right now probably the most important part. BY the end of his career he will be the only coach who will be able to say that he played an integral part in lifting two Big4 Clubs from the abyss of failure back to where they belong.

 

[MightyBlue]

You have to take into account that when a club commits to a coach and their game plan, the club drafts according to that coaches plan, which would explain our excessive amount of undersized quick, skilful players, that was Rattens game plan and those were the players he wanted to execute it.

Couldn't have said it better myself.
Our list was built around Rattens fast attacking game plan, not Matlhouse's defensive one. The player's aren't leveraging their strengths and are trying to adapt to a style that doesn't come naturally. Obviously as a result they are struggling; it's like trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with me, but I the more I think about it, the more I fear sacking Ratten has stalled our improvement. Mick doesn't have half the injury concerns we had last year to deal with (worst in the clubs history), and is still in a similar position. Our best games from 2010-2012 were awesome, I was confident if we played the way we were capeable of week in week out we could beat anyone. Ultimately our inconsistency and poor performances led to Brett's sacking. To me Mick was brought in to get us to play at our best consistently, not reinvent the wheel but imposing a game style that suited the Collingwood team circa 2010.

The only game this year where I thought our players could successfully adapt to Mick's game style was against the Hawks. IMO was hands down the best game we have played all year. I'm hoping with another preseason, and possibly a couple list changes we can adapt and play that way consistently.

 

[BlueVision]

Can anyone shed some light on areas off the field that MM has improved as stated by some posters - are these improvements just opinions of those posting are could I have some examples please ?

PS - The above paragraph is not intended to sound sarcastic - so please do not take it that way.

 

[Silvagnis]

The lack of action on the trade front last year had nothing to do with overrating our list, but everything to do with a tight salary cap, made even tighter by the AFL's decision to suddenly no longer allow Judd's Visy payments to be exempted from our TPPs. The timing of this decision left the club having to quickly juggle our TPPs to avoid breaching the salary cap & no time to work on potential trades. I doubt Malthouse was under any misconception our list was good enough to challenge for Top 4, but he stuck to the party line when saying he was happy with the list as it was at the end of 2012.

The timing of Mick's arrival may have played a part in Carlton not trading and chasing free agents like Chaplin, Goddard and Pearce. Not sure the cap is that tight. Swann said that he thought we had Cloke signed, so we must have more cap room than outsiders believe. Swann stated this year that we have the money to get a Dale Thomas or two this year. I suspect the AFL let us put Judd's Visy payments in the injury payments because they backflipped on Judd's ambassador role.

 

[Aphrodite]

Hi Guys

Most on here are reflecting about 2013 and seem to think that this year is pretty much done and was a transition year for the club as well as a year for MM to have a good look at the players and change the game plan the carlton players were playing under ratten.

Now ill be open and admit that i never rated ratten as a coach,I always thought that when things were going his way it was ok but soon as there was a challeng or the tide turned - He was lost and confused as well as reacting well and truly after the horse had bolted.

The question i would like to as is this, With the likely hood of 9-12 changes in the list this year & another 8-10 next year (roughly 20 players in 2 years) with some of these players being your 'Better players' in Scotland,Waite,Simpson,Carrazzo,Judd all coming to there twighlight years

What happens if say at the end of the 2015 season Carlton are in a similar position on the ladder but with a younger list, Does mick deserve an extension ? and how long do you give him

personally speaking i believe mick malthouse could/should eventually get carlton to become a top 4-5-6 team but it wont be in the next 5 years possibly 6-7 year after this year

Would the Carlton board/pporters be prepared to give him that long to get there as he was really brought in to make instant improvement when first appointed

Well there you have it.

Time to microwave my Membership!!

 

[Little People]

I like MM interviews. I actually think he is one of the only coaches who try to answer the questions put to him as thoroughly as possible. So many coaches answer questions with question, or deliver boring cliches over and over again

Agreed!