Opinion Mick Malthouse

What is the next move on Mick?

  • Sack him immediately; replacement coach to see out the year.

    Votes: 192 48.9%
  • Let him coach out the year then show him the door.

    Votes: 70 17.8%
  • Sign him now to give coaches and players some direction.

    Votes: 81 20.6%
  • Not sure yet... still too angry to think clearly.

    Votes: 50 12.7%

  • Total voters
    393
  • Poll closed .
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DaVillaBlues

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I would find it uplifting and enjoyable to watch.
I question the dedication of (experienced) players who need the mid-season change of coach to actually start perform on a consistent basis.

I can think of at least two current underperforming players whom were major contributors to the sacking of Ratts IMO.
No secret that one of them is Andrew Walker.

Get rid of Mick, but those type of petulant players need to be shown the door as well.
 

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You find it impossible to believe that in order to build a premiership team, the majority of our list in 2012 would need to be turned over? Really?

If that's truly the case then I believe you overrated our list and the relevance of playing finals. Discounting the expansion teams, every single team in the comp have played finals at some point over the last 10 seasons. Everyone. All but two have played finals over the last 5 seasons. Again, almost everyone. Yet just 3 teams account for 8 of those premierships.

There is no correlation between playing finals and having a list capable of winning a flag and/or backing it up. And if there was, winning just 1 final during Ratten's tenure surely had us square in the 'pretenders' basket.

I don't find it impossible to believe at all that we likely need to turn over 80 percent or more of the list Mick inherited, and given that, I am also not surprised that the process will take 6 - 8 years. I have waited 20 years, I can wait for another 5 more if it will actually mean we are finally contenders, rather than going the supporter appeasing finals 'pretender' route.

The above stats show any team can play finals within 5 years. I don't want finals. I want a premiership. I still have faith that Mick is the right man for that currently, and I believe despite our on-field performances, we are closer to a flag currently than what we were in 2013 when we played finals.
Okay, thanks for not answering the questions.

You can wait, that's fine. Shall I mark you down for purchasing 20k memberships to make up for those that are disillusioned? For those that aren't sure about a leap of faith based on the fact that making finals is overrated and the premise that a team that made finals consistently was so shit they all had to go.

I'm looking to be convinced and so far all you have given is a) we've drafted some players the last 3 years, only a couple of which are performing in this side, b) Mick's done it before and c) Making finals under Ratten was meaningless because the list was terrible.

Please don't seek a job in the club's marketing department.

Forget the stats, forget how good a player used to be, forget how ugly it looks, Mick built it at Collingwood and the game plan is timeless ... Trust us.

Tell me, of those teams that made finals and have had to have another go at it, how many turned over their whole list to get back again and how long did it take them?

We are in a position where if we got rid of everybody who is 'not listening' or can not figure out this game plan, it would take us 10 years to rebuild unless you think we are really going to consistently strike gold with a few choice picks, later picks and little trade value to get it done in 3-4 years. Fact is we have to keep at least half of the current list and figure out a game plan that works.

People are so tied to this game plan that they can't explain. Do Hawthorn use it? Do Sydney? Fremantle? Port? Do they all have the same game plan as each other or do they cater to their strengths? You know Pagan spent 5 years trying to recreate Pagan's paddock with lesser players?

For all of this talk of teaching us to play differently, and the fact we dominate in clearances and contested possessions as a stepping stone to a more defensive harder game, let's look at the stats.

2012 - the shocker of a season that got Ratten sacked - Contested possession avg 142, clearance avg 39
2015 - Contested possession avg 134, clearance avg 42

How about those defensive averages?

2002 - 76.4 for 104.5 against
--------------------------------------------- Pagan in
2003 - 81.0 for 121.5 against
2004 - 82.9 for 101.5 against
2005 - 91.6 for 121.3 against
2006 - 81.4 for 109.7 against
2007 - 98.5 for 132.3 against
---------------------------------------------- Ratten in
2008 - 100.7 for 107 against
2009 - 103.1 for 93.4 against
2010 - 97.4 for 90.1 against
2011 - 101.1 for 77.2 against
2012 - 94.5 for 87.5 against
---------------------------------------------- Malthouse in
2013 - 96.5 for 90.5 against
2014 - 85.9 for 95.7 against
2015 - 74.5 for 108.0 against


Do we think Pagan needed more time to turn over the list? After all, not only did he build a premiership list before, he was also the best junior development coach in the competition in the under 19s. Or were we right to worry about the trends?

As stated, I want to be convinced, not told to just have patience. I want to think constructively but not be taken as a fool. We've all waited that 20 years mate. We've all given time, energy and emotion to the club and we have all reset and summoned it all up again when the wrong path was chosen.
 
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I question the dedication of (experienced) players who need the mid-season change of coach to actually start perform on a consistent basis.

I can think of at least two current underperforming players whom were major contributors to the sacking of Ratts IMO.
No secret that one of them is Andrew Walker.

Get rid of Mick, but those type of petulant players need to be shown the door as well.
Agreed. The players and the approach to the players is letting us down at present. The coaches have to get them on board or the coaches are not doing their job. What we have seen lately is not completely a lack of effort, it's also a lack of direction.
 

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I question the dedication of (experienced) players who need the mid-season change of coach to actually start perform on a consistent basis.

I can think of at least two current underperforming players whom were major contributors to the sacking of Ratts IMO.
No secret that one of them is Andrew Walker.

Get rid of Mick, but those type of petulant players need to be shown the door as well.
Walkers knee is shot so I'm guessing this will be his last year of footy.
 
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Yes true, but I would find it galling and insulting if they actually decided to play better/lift their game under a caretaker coach.
If they did that, I'd be looking at what tweaks the caretaker coach did to the game plan. I suspect there are assistants in that box that might do something a little different. Is it then the players exclusively or a combination of players and plan?
 

HBF

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Agreed. The players and the approach to the players is letting us down at present. The coaches have to get them on board or the coaches are not doing their job. What we have seen lately is not completely a lack of effort, it's also a lack of direction.
Mick needs to release the shackles and just let them play. This chipping the ball around in the back half and getting pinned in the D50 is just idiotic. How the hell are we supposed to win, let alone score when we simply don't have any confidence in moving the ball forward.
 

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Mick needs to release the shackles and just let them play. This chipping the ball around in the back half and getting pinned in the D50 is just idiotic. How the hell are we supposed to win, let alone score when we simply don't have any confidence in moving the ball forward.
Mick told them to play it was the last thing as they were told. They aren't listening.

Richmond actually look ok when they take risks
 

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HBF

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Mick told them to play it was the last thing as they were told. They aren't listening.

Richmond actually look ok when they take risks
Didn't look like that right from the start.
Unless something changes quickly we won't win another game for the year. And the growing problem is that less and less of us give a damn.
 
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Mick told them to play it was the last thing as they were told. They aren't listening.
Yeah I heard that. The last thing I said to them was 'play the game'.

What I am wondering is how much of their natural games has been coached out of them, how much of their confidence has eroded, how many players needed to play a more positive game have left, been shown the door, or aren't getting enough game time?
 

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Agreed. The players and the approach to the players is letting us down at present. The coaches have to get them on board or the coaches are not doing their job. What we have seen lately is not completely a lack of effort, it's also a lack of direction.
Mick's lack of faith/support of the young kids on our list is where he has finally lost me (and yes I was wrong about that, owe a few people an apology)

Its groundhog day for several of those senior players who stopped listening to Ratts in his final season though.

Its a combination of inflexible coaching/gameplan, apathy from players and bad communication from both sides.
 

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This is so Pagan-esque. It's so awful to be at round 7 and have no hope for the rest of the year. All I want is for the inexperienced players to get some games under their belt before next year. We're going to lose anyway so why the **** not.
10 years time this place will be cracking jokes about Malthouses tenure here. Much like our current jokes about the Pagan era.
 

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I'm looking to be convinced and so far all you have given is a) we've drafted some players the last 3 years, only a couple of which are performing in this side, b) Mick's done it before and c) Making finals under Ratten was meaningless because the list was terrible.
Appreciate the effort you've put into your post, but it's not my job to convince you.

On the flip side, you've not convinced me that we need to sack Mick. The arguments presented aren't nearly as strong as you think, and are as in depth as a) we're losing games, b) the players look confused and c) supporters aren't happy.

I've provided my reasoning that goes beyond a single line, the ability of either of us to point holes in each other's argument doesn't make our own any more valid. I'm not an unabashed Mick supporter, who will coach our club next year is a massive decision, and I hope the reasoning that goes into that has more basis than what's been presented in this thread by anyone.
 
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Appreciate the effort you've put into your post, but it's not my job to convince you.

On the flip side, you've not convinced me that we need to sack Mick. The arguments presented aren't nearly as strong as you think, and are as in depth as a) we're losing games, b) the players look confused and c) supporters aren't happy.

I've provided my reasoning that goes beyond a single line, the ability of either of us to point holes in each other's argument doesn't make our own any more valid. I'm not an unabashed Mick supporter, who will coach our club next year is a massive decision, and I hope the reasoning that goes into that has more basis than what's been presented in this thread by anyone.
I never said we needed to sack Mick so I wasn't here to convince you. You're the one who states that we need to have faith in Mick, that Ratten's list was terrible and we needed years to turn them all over and years again to build a new one. I was asking questions based around your contention. I'm offering some statistical analysis to try to understand where this game plan is taking us because you won't address it because it isn't your job. I was hoping someone could answer it so the supporters could form an educated opinion. I'm not sure the club are going to tell us. The football media certainly can't tell us.
 

carlton2dabone

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Appreciate the effort you've put into your post, but it's not my job to convince you.

On the flip side, you've not convinced me that we need to sack Mick. The arguments presented aren't nearly as strong as you think, and are as in depth as a) we're losing games, b) the players look confused and c) supporters aren't happy.

I've provided my reasoning that goes beyond a single line, the ability of either of us to point holes in each other's argument doesn't make our own any more valid. I'm not an unabashed Mick supporter, who will coach our club next year is a massive decision, and I hope the reasoning that goes into that has more basis than what's been presented in this thread by anyone.
Oh on the contrary, I think he laid out a great case for why Mick needs to go right now.

Watch a replay of our last game if you can stomach it, or watch a replay of the game before that, or watch a replay of the Collingwood game, heck go all the way back to the Richmond game, and you will see the just why Mick has to go.

We used to have a team of players that would run and be creative when going forward, but under this old fart the only thing we do these days is either slam the boot on the ball without looking or kick high and long down the boundary or as is happening lately, just kick back and sideways.
We don't have a football team that runs onto the park every week, we have a collection of 22 players that have no idea how to work with each other to move the ball forward and goal.
That is completely the coaches fault, he took a team of players that had an understanding of how to move the ball forward together and turned them into a collection of 22 players that know nothing more than getting the ball onto the boot and making it someone else's problem further down the field.

Wake up, the longer that Mick stays coach, the more that the players will lose any semblance of attacking instinct they once had and the more supporters will stay away so as not to blow a blood vessel whilst screaming at our own players to move the ball with some system.
 

DaVillaBlues

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I don't want to come across as an Mick apologist, but honestly, this club still hasn't recovered from the salary cap sanctions in 2002.

3 coaches in the past 8 years (2 with 5 premierships between them) and a club legend in Ratts, our recruiting, drafting and trading practices in that period, was at best naive/misguided.

We did hit a purple patch in 2009 - 12, but that's probably the most we managed to get out of the list.

In hindsight, and this may be very controversial, trading for Chris Judd honestly may have hindered our rebuilding program, and we did top with several more recycled/project player types, instead of keeping going to the well via the draft.

Plus the expansion club drafts did hurt our chances of getting more top end talent to our club.

The new coach should be given minimum 5 years to build our club from this quagmire we find ourselves in.

I personally have no animosity towards Pagan, Ratts or Mick, they did try and believe they did what's best for our club, Mr Pigs Arse is where my ire is directed at (not just for the rorting, but the other unsavoury practices his board did at the time, which is best left unsaid)
 

carlton2dabone

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One only needs to look at Mick's attitude to Casboult's kicking toknow that Mick has no clue about coaching these days.

Over and over again Mick insisted that we couldn't fix Cas kicking technique, according to Mick it was impossible task to sort out a players kicking.

Finally they bring in Sav, 2 weeks later we see a marked improvement in Cas kicking technique, he still has a fair way to go but with just the amount of improvement he laready has made, he could easily be one of the leading goal kickers in the league with the right delivery.
 
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