You find it impossible to believe that in order to build a premiership team, the majority of our list in 2012 would need to be turned over? Really?
If that's truly the case then I believe you overrated our list and the relevance of playing finals. Discounting the expansion teams, every single team in the comp have played finals at some point over the last 10 seasons. Everyone. All but two have played finals over the last 5 seasons. Again, almost everyone. Yet just 3 teams account for 8 of those premierships.
There is no correlation between playing finals and having a list capable of winning a flag and/or backing it up. And if there was, winning just 1 final during Ratten's tenure surely had us square in the 'pretenders' basket.
I don't find it impossible to believe at all that we likely need to turn over 80 percent or more of the list Mick inherited, and given that, I am also not surprised that the process will take 6 - 8 years. I have waited 20 years, I can wait for another 5 more if it will actually mean we are finally contenders, rather than going the supporter appeasing finals 'pretender' route.
The above stats show any team can play finals within 5 years. I don't want finals. I want a premiership. I still have faith that Mick is the right man for that currently, and I believe despite our on-field performances, we are closer to a flag currently than what we were in 2013 when we played finals.
Okay, thanks for not answering the questions.
You can wait, that's fine. Shall I mark you down for purchasing 20k memberships to make up for those that are disillusioned? For those that aren't sure about a leap of faith based on the fact that making finals is overrated and the premise that a team that made finals consistently was so shit they all had to go.
I'm looking to be convinced and so far all you have given is a) we've drafted some players the last 3 years, only a couple of which are performing in this side, b) Mick's done it before and c) Making finals under Ratten was meaningless because the list was terrible.
Please don't seek a job in the club's marketing department.
Forget the stats, forget how good a player used to be, forget how ugly it looks, Mick built it at Collingwood and the game plan is timeless ... Trust us.
Tell me, of those teams that made finals and have had to have another go at it, how many turned over their whole list to get back again and how long did it take them?
We are in a position where if we got rid of everybody who is 'not listening' or can not figure out this game plan, it would take us 10 years to rebuild unless you think we are really going to consistently strike gold with a few choice picks, later picks and little trade value to get it done in 3-4 years. Fact is we have to keep at least half of the current list and figure out a game plan that works.
People are so tied to this game plan that they can't explain. Do Hawthorn use it? Do Sydney? Fremantle? Port? Do they all have the same game plan as each other or do they cater to their strengths? You know Pagan spent 5 years trying to recreate Pagan's paddock with lesser players?
For all of this talk of teaching us to play differently, and the fact we dominate in clearances and contested possessions as a stepping stone to a more defensive harder game, let's look at the stats.
2012 - the shocker of a season that got Ratten sacked - Contested possession avg 142, clearance avg 39
2015 - Contested possession avg 134, clearance avg 42
How about those defensive averages?
2002 - 76.4 for 104.5 against
--------------------------------------------- Pagan in
2003 - 81.0 for 121.5 against
2004 - 82.9 for 101.5 against
2005 - 91.6 for 121.3 against
2006 - 81.4 for 109.7 against
2007 - 98.5 for 132.3 against
---------------------------------------------- Ratten in
2008 - 100.7 for 107 against
2009 - 103.1 for 93.4 against
2010 - 97.4 for 90.1 against
2011 - 101.1 for 77.2 against
2012 - 94.5 for 87.5 against
---------------------------------------------- Malthouse in
2013 - 96.5 for 90.5 against
2014 - 85.9 for 95.7 against
2015 - 74.5 for 108.0 against
Do we think Pagan needed more time to turn over the list? After all, not only did he build a premiership list before, he was also the best junior development coach in the competition in the under 19s. Or were we right to worry about the trends?
As stated, I want to be convinced, not told to just have patience. I want to think constructively but not be taken as a fool. We've all waited that 20 years mate. We've all given time, energy and emotion to the club and we have all reset and summoned it all up again when the wrong path was chosen.