List Mgmt. Mid-Season Draft 2021

[LiterallyNobody]

The negativity is driven by experience. In the 52 years I have been following the Saints, we have had three good patches - 92/93, 1997, 2008/10. That is 6 OK years (Hawks fans would brand them all failures) in 52 years.

And unfortunately it hasn't been bad luck - in that time the club has made unfathomably poor decision after unfathomably poor decision. It started with the Ian Stewart trade through to the financial calamity of the 80s through to moving from Moorabbin through to our recent draft selections. I can't think of any other club that has shot itself in the foot as many times as Saints have.

As a Saints supporter there is an expectation buttressed by years of experience that we will f#ck it up. Even when we have clearly (and rarely) had the best team in the AFL 1997/2009 we manage to turn in one bad quarter to ensure there is no fairy tale. The squandering of talent from 1989 - 1994 almost beggars belief. How you can have Winmar, Lockett, Loewe, Harvey, Frawley, Burke, Everitt in the same team and not challenge for a flag just defies footy logic.

Where is the current team? Well to be frank I think your assessment is Saints goggles optimistic. It is important to try and be positive - as others in here have said - but I think part of our struggles over the years have been a result of supporters and the club simply not being honest with themselves.

I think all the players you list are serviceable - with King and Marshall really the only two that have the potential to become elite. Hunter Clark is thereabouts but someone needs to pull the lazy stick out of his arse.

I know I bang on about default st Kilda mode a but this is sort of where it’s derived from. Maybe I haven’t been alive as long as others and maybe I haven’t been as hardcore a supporter as others here but I’ve read enough books and listened to enough anecdotes to get a thorough understanding of our history.

When I mention to people that our first premiership should have been won in 1913 were it not for the archaic “challenge rule” - ie the rule that allowed Collingwood to win four in a row - giving Fitzroy an opportunity to challenge us and replay the grand final (we don’t have much luck in grand final replays) - pretty sure they ditched this rule in the 1930’s so along with video review (2012) and no replays of grand finals (2016) we have a bunch of sliding doors moments.

Then you have 1965, 1997 and 2009 in which we topped the ladder but failed to win the premiership and 1971 when we were 20 pts up at three quarter time.

Again, these are real sliding doors moments (not that fake IF/THEN crap that purple posts about) that actually have an impact on our history.

Then there’s the 27 wooden spoons - of which seven or eight of these were at the start of the competition where there was no equality like you see these days or even in the women’s competition.

there’s a lot more but let me just say if you gravitate towards the negative that just makes you a realist who is either well aware of our abhorrent history or fed up with incompetence. In some cases, it’s both.

 

[bird_man]

Yeah that's it in a nutshell. Good kick, good run, quick, agile, can leap and play taller, skillful, clever, hard, nails tackles. Has the Eddie Betts look at me celebrations as you said. We played him all over the place, like we do with a lot of our guys, and he couldn't settle. Some here say we let him go because he struggled in hub life or something, well so did a lot of people.

I'm really not sure why we keep letting the skillful guys walk out the door, yet we keep guys who get caught by their own shadow and kick a footy like it's a foreign object. Obviously there's a mental side to it. I still can't believe we're teaching AFL footballers how to kick!

Parker will be great at Richmond, they know what to do with him.

How did we play him all over the place?

The biggest change he would have had was going from a forward pocket to the forward flank.

Good luck to him but let's not pretend he's some kind of star. He didn't take his opportunity when he had it last year and he's averaging 1 goal a game in the WAFL.

He's definitely capable to coming in and playing a role in Richmond's structure though.

 

[ScrappyDo]

If Brad Crouch does not get band 1, then definitely no chance Billings get near it. It will be a second rounder. Not worth it.

It's not quite the same. Whilst I'm also dubious JB would get a band 1 contract, we'd still be happy to keep him on reduced $$$ if we don't get sufficient compo.
The Crows on the other hand did not want Brouch despite their idiotic posturing to the contrary.

With some smart contract triggers we could have JB on a base of 600k with a possible 800k if he for example wins a BnF.
That will leverage a larger base contract offer from whoever might offer one.

Anyway it's not the same situation, and despite recent issues there's no possibility that our current executive could be a stupid as the current Crows mob.

 

[AirWinmar]

How did we play him all over the place?

The biggest change he would have had was going from a forward pocket to the forward flank.

Good luck to him but let's not pretend he's some kind of star. He didn't take his opportunity when he had it last year and he's averaging 1 goal a game in the WAFL.

He's definitely capable to coming in and playing a role in Richmond's structure though.

Pretty sure he's been playing more wing in the wafl and credit to him, by stats and reports has been doing well in that role

Your right tho, played only forward for us, deep or high.

 

[stavro#4]

Cooper Sharman.
Since being eligible for the draft in 2019.

2020: Nothing. Not drafted.

2021:
Recruited by Woodville-West Torrens.

Reserves : 6 matches, 15 goals ( 75% accuracy ) , Average disposals 13.3 ( 60% efficient ) Average marks 6.7 Average Tackles 1.5 Average inside 50's 2.7
Seniors : 2 matches , 2 games 2 goals, 50% scoring accuracy. Average disposals 11 ( 59% effective ). Average marks 6.5

Twomey rated this kid. I watched the entire coverage and as soon as we picked him Twomey lit up and got pretty excited and chuffed that he was taken.

I know nothing about him, but when it comes to the draft if someone like Twomey rates a kid then I think it’s a worthwhile investment.

I do question what this all means for Battle and Membrey as that’s two similar players we have drafted in 6 months.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Parky was all hat no cattle.

 

[stavro#4]

How did we play him all over the place?

The biggest change he would have had was going from a forward pocket to the forward flank.

Good luck to him but let's not pretend he's some kind of star. He didn't take his opportunity when he had it last year and he's averaging 1 goal a game in the WAFL.

He's definitely capable to coming in and playing a role in Richmond's structure though.

I think I said something along the lines of being talented but a really big project for us to undertake in regards to Parker a few days ago.

he might look really good at Richmond and that’s okay.

but he isn’t what WE needed going forward. That’s all that matters. Not sure why anyone should be upset over this.

 

[Stewart66]

Why the fu** did we pass on the last 2 picks. We could have taken a punt on 2 young mids. But as we all know we are an amateur club in a proffesional environment. fu**en useless.

Cooper Sharman.
Since being eligible for the draft in 2019.

2020: Nothing. Not drafted.

2021:
Recruited by Woodville-West Torrens.

Reserves : 6 matches, 15 goals ( 75% accuracy ) , Average disposals 13.3 ( 60% efficient ) Average marks 6.7 Average Tackles 1.5 Average inside 50's 2.7
Seniors : 2 matches , 2 games 2 goals, 50% scoring accuracy. Average disposals 11 ( 59% effective ). Average marks 6.5

Compare to taking a chance on this bloke.

Gregory CLARK | WAFL

Gregory CLARK | WAFL

www.wafl.com.au

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Out of the 5 possible list spots we could have used yesterday, only 1 was from us choosing not to fill it during the 2020 drafts or SPP process. We left the draft with 4 places open and filled them with Frawley, Wood and Hunter as all SPP signings.

It was something like 13/18 clubs left a spot open after these signing periods to use for the mid season draft so we weren't alone in doing that.

The extra 4 we could have used weren't left free due to choosing to
- Robbo retiring which occurred after our last preseason game. I think there might have been 2-3 days left in the SPP window but I'm not sure on the process that has to occur to open up the list spot at that point of time.
- 3 from long term injuries to Paton, Gresh and Carlisle.

For some reason i thought we left 2 open. Must have been thinking Roberton.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Twomey rated this kid. I watched the entire coverage and as soon as we picked him Twomey lit up and got pretty excited and chuffed that he was taken.

I know nothing about him, but when it comes to the draft if someone like Twomey rates a kid then I think it’s a worthwhile investment.

I do question what this all means for Battle and Membrey as that’s two similar players we have drafted in 6 months.

They might be preparing to pay a price for Ben King.
Not sure i'm happy about this.

Seems like the object of our football club is to sign up a certain player, and they are losing sight of the fact that the object should be to win a premiership.

 

[PostmanBish]

Probably need to see more from this Sharman but another lead up forward is seriously uninspiring. Have to be honest I just I don’t get our plan. But what do I know.

We have lead-up forwards? Wouldn't bloody know it from watching us play most weeks ...

 

[Highlander35]

For some reason i thought we left 2 open. Must have been thinking Roberton.

We had 2 spots open after the November period to my recollection. Then:

January 12th: Robbo takes a break, considering retirement, around this time Wood begins training with us
February 4th: Wood gets Signed, around this time, Hunter begins training with us
February 17th: Paton injured
February 19th: Hunter is signed
March 4th: Robbo Officially Retires

I think while technically the numbers would have been a little different, we "have always" been operating with 2 spare spots AFAIK.

 

[BrutThough]

For some reason i thought we left 2 open. Must have been thinking Roberton.

Hunter was signed pretty late in the piece so we did spend most of pre season with 2 spots open.

 

[lewdogs]

Most importantly, have we lost our "oldest list in the AFL" tag?

 

[LiterallyNobody]

Most importantly, have we lost our "oldest list in the AFL" tag?

Oh gosh I hope not. What will the media focus on then??

 

[stavro#4]

Oa



Oakleigh Charger went to South Australia.

Thought we should have given Charlie Dean & Zavier Maher chance...free hit nothing to lose.

I agree. It’s annoying that we didn’t take additional with nothing to lose. Especially as Dean was highly touted during his draft year and seems to have done well at Willy this year.

 

[Yawkey way]

People struggle mentally having to read such negativity, then when they ask for it to stop, or at least settle down, they get howled down for it.

It's not a huge ask for the sake of others here who have to read that crap.

I’m sorry but that’s just not right, it’s outrageous to put that on other posters.

That is actually the result of irrational or distorted thinking in my opinion, it’s perfectly normal that others hold differing opinions and doesn’t say anything about the character or value of anyone. The fact that you’ve clearly had complaints and just as clearly agree with them doesn’t make it right.

If posters contravene the rules then by all means do what you need to do, otherwise people have every right to hold and express differing views whatever they may be.

No disrespect to anyone who’s doing it tough at present, if you are reach out and get some help.

 

[CursingFijian]

The negativity is driven by experience. In the 52 years I have been following the Saints, we have had three good patches - 92/93, 1997, 2008/10. That is 6 OK years (Hawks fans would brand them all failures) in 52 years.

And unfortunately it hasn't been bad luck - in that time the club has made unfathomably poor decision after unfathomably poor decision. It started with the Ian Stewart trade through to the financial calamity of the 80s through to moving from Moorabbin through to our recent draft selections. I can't think of any other club that has shot itself in the foot as many times as Saints have.

As a Saints supporter there is an expectation buttressed by years of experience that we will f#ck it up. Even when we have clearly (and rarely) had the best team in the AFL 1997/2009 we manage to turn in one bad quarter to ensure there is no fairy tale. The squandering of talent from 1989 - 1994 almost beggars belief. How you can have Winmar, Lockett, Loewe, Harvey, Frawley, Burke, Everitt in the same team and not challenge for a flag just defies footy logic.

Where is the current team? Well to be frank I think your assessment is Saints goggles optimistic. It is important to try and be positive - as others in here have said - but I think part of our struggles over the years have been a result of supporters and the club simply not being honest with themselves.

I understand how you feel, and I think it’s also fair to say that most long term supporters of St Kilda share the same thoughts of impending doom around everything St Kilda does.

It’s part of our individual complexity and lends to our personal uniqueness; we aren’t fair weather supporters who simply attach themselves to the winningest teams. Supporting the Saints is not a choice. It’s a commitment borne out of love, come what may. Right?

We have been around long enough to know what awaits us. We can see straight through the spin of any ‘good news’. We know who we are. We are losers. Some of us are toxic losers. Embrace it. Wear it like a badge of honour.

Even the younger, less traumatised supporters are led to this point simply through exposure to other fans who have been around long enough to be ‘enlightened’. To quote an old adage...we become the people we hang out with.

The trouble is if enough of us believe we are losers then that is inevitably what we will be seen to be.

The reality is that every year we fail to take home the prize like 17 other teams. Winning in September requires such a complex mashup of preparation, effort, determination and good fortune that the reality is nobody knows the formula. That’s part of what keeps bringing us back; the delicious hope that next year it could all come together for us.

If we stop and take a deep breath and look around the situation with Matty Parker is no different to Mason Wood. North fans are feeling have felt the same anguish about him coming good at St Kilda and what that implies about their club. Parker to Richmond could be like Pickett to Richmond or it could be like Minchington to the Hawks. We just don’t know yet, time is going to play out. If the pickup doesn’t work then Tigers supporters will lament the pick the same way we will lament taking Wood if that doesn’t pan out.

The reality is we are no different to every other club in the competition at the moment. We win some and we lose some.

The only way to increase your chances of winning is to create a strong environment and cobble together a crew of mostly effective support staff. And St Kilda has done wonderfully well in this space with the Moorabin redevelopment.

Our team in and off the field is definitely underperforming and there have been multiple games that have been played with an unacceptable lack of spirit. And our administration needs to be held to account. But we are far from being the losingest team in the competition. And our future is NOT as bleak as some would paint it.

I think we are edging in the right direction, and have been for a good while now. It’s agonisingly slow and yes the annual premiership pilgrimage would be less painful if we were among the top four teams. But hey we aren’t out on this ledge alone. If you look left and right you will see North supporters. And Hawks supporters. And Gold Coast supporters. And West Coast supporters. Even some doomsday Tigers supporters.

We just think we have a mortgage on the ledge, because we are always here. The reality is that fans from 17 other clubs all share the same view.

I’m elated for Matty Parker. Being picked allows him to continue to support his family using the assets he has in his life right now. All power to him...I hope he smashes it.

Perhaps it’s time to proffer the same emotional support to Mason Wood and Paul Hunter and everybody else on our list. Right up until the moment they aren’t, and then just a little beyond.

While we’re doing that let’s keep asking valid questions of our administration. What are the next building blocks to be put in place? How can we keep improving what we already have. Good fortune favours the prepared so let’s keep setting ourselves up to maximise our readiness. It is the only way.

No time to self deal in pity. Crank the wheel, flick the switch, enjoy the ride. It gets bumpy every now and then but it helps if you squeal loudly and laugh.

 

[George]

I’m sorry but that’s just not right, it’s outrageous to put that on other posters.

That is actually the result of irrational or distorted thinking in my opinion, it’s perfectly normal that others hold differing opinions and doesn’t say anything about the character or value of anyone. The fact that you’ve clearly had complaints and just as clearly agree with them doesn’t make it right.

If posters contravene the rules then by all means do what you need to do, otherwise people have every right to hold and express differing views whatever they may be.

No disrespect to anyone who’s doing it tough at present, if you are reach out and get some help.

It is contravening the rules lol, would you all like me to just start banning everyone then?

You might want to read back what I actually wrote instead of spinning some story that I'm out to attack another persons character.

I'm asking for a bit of level headedness, despite the fact it's against the rules of the board (constant criticism of club), I and many others are sick of reading it.

I cannot believe the response to a simple request to tone it down. If you would prefer that I moderate to the letter of the law then I'll do that, but don't complain about it when it happens. What I would honestly prefer to do is allow people to skirt the rules, because I don't want to ban anyone and I don't like doing it, not to mention everyone gets along with each other better when there's not the constant fear of having posting privileges removed.

It's up to everyone here. Either they take the advice and try and be a bit more objective, or the rules of the board will be enforced more often. I don't want that but what other option do we have if the constant negativity continues.

 

[LiterallyNobody]

Cooper Sharman.
Since being eligible for the draft in 2019.

2020: Nothing. Not drafted.

2021:
Recruited by Woodville-West Torrens.

Reserves : 6 matches, 15 goals ( 75% accuracy ) , Average disposals 13.3 ( 60% efficient ) Average marks 6.7 Average Tackles 1.5 Average inside 50's 2.7
Seniors : 2 matches , 2 games 2 goals, 50% scoring accuracy. Average disposals 11 ( 59% effective ). Average marks 6.5

Am I just so used to accepting mediocrity or are these stats actually not that bad? Early days for his senior games stats but the reserves ones are pretty good

 

[StCicatriz]

People struggle mentally having to read such negativity, then when they ask for it to stop, or at least settle down, they get howled down for it.

It's not a huge ask for the sake of others here who have to read that crap.

Hang on a second this ain't cool.

Are we really using mental health here to try and stop people posting their opinions of where the club is at or the decisions they have made or could make?

What posters are "struggling mentally" because of what Gringo posted?

This really I do mean this strongly REALLY doesn't sit right with me. Using something as important as mental health as a way to shape the discussion on here over something as minor as a couple of pessimistic posts! Which given the position of the club is hardly untoward.

To put that on gringo who's been here for a long time and is valued by a lot of people on here isn't cool.

I just don't understand how what he wrote could affect someone's mental health.

And if that's considered enough for a warning then wow!

Imagine what should be done about the doxing and then continued harassment of coops. Even when he was off-line you had posters referring to Facebook posts that didn't even occur on this site!!!!!

I find that behaviour more concerning than a couple of negative posts on the clubs performance.

 

[St Neil]

Twomey rated this kid. I watched the entire coverage and as soon as we picked him Twomey lit up and got pretty excited and chuffed that he was taken.

I know nothing about him, but when it comes to the draft if someone like Twomey rates a kid then I think it’s a worthwhile investment.

I do question what this all means for Battle and Membrey as that’s two similar players we have drafted in 6 months.

I rate Josh Battle and I want him in our team. But I wonder if he could be part of any proposed trade for Ben King. He’s be a player that would appeal to the Suns. Young, tough, talented and a lad of good character.

We just won’t play him in one position and let him settle down. It seems that our coaching staff don’t know where to play him.

 

[Sully111]

It's up to everyone here. Either they take the advice and try and be a bit more objective, or the rules of the board will be enforced more often. I don't want that but what other option do we have if the constant negativity continues.

Objectivity goes both way George.

A simple statement like "I reckon we dropped the ball not playing Nick Hind at half back in the afl" can be met with a heap of posts to the contrary. Then if that person stands their ground and makes their point they're seen as overly negative.

I'm frustrated with the club right now. I know injuries are a problem but we seem to be a shambles.

 

[Sully111]

I rate Josh Battle and I want him in our team. But I wonder if he could be part of any proposed trade for Ben King. He’s be a player that would appeal to the Suns. Young, tough, talented and a lad of good character.

We just won’t play him in one position and let him settle down. It seems that our coaching staff don’t know where to play him.

If we let battle go without giving him a solid run as a forward, only to see him go to another club and tear it up, my head will explode.

 

[George]

Objectivity goes both way George.

A simple statement like "I reckon we dropped the ball not playing Nick Hind at half back in the afl" can be met with a heap of posts to the contrary. Then if that person stands their ground and makes their point they're seen as overly negative.

I'm frustrated with the club right now. I know injuries are a problem but we seem to be a shambles.

I wouldn't have any issue with that and we already had that Nick Hind discussion in a different thread (If it wasn't you I apologise). I didn't call you out on any of your "negativity", I simply disagreed with you and explained my reasons as to why. You don't have any history of negative themes in your posting so I never saw you as being overly negative if that's what you thought.

My comments last night regarding the negativity were in relation to the few posters who post in that way all the time. This wasn't because of one or two posts, this has been happening in many threads on this board for a number of months now. I'm not the first one to call it out, either. For someone to say it's affecting their mental health having to come on here as a means to escape and then continue dwelling in negative thoughts is fair enough and those that feel that way shouldn't be made a joke out of or not taken seriously. Just because someone handles something one way doesn't mean everyone is the same.

For months these posts have broken the rules and nothing has been done about them because I'm not an arsehole and understand we are playing poorly this year so criticism/negativity is bound to come about. But when it's all that a select few posters typically post about, then it becomes an issue and I can either just ban those posters for overt criticism of the club, or they can take the advice, tone it down and take into consideration the feelings of others.

It's got nothing to do with the character of the posters or anything like that, it's a simple request to try and be more balanced. If that cannot be achieved and the rules continue to be broken unfortunately I've got no other option other than to remove posting privileges for those people.

I think I've been fairly reasonable, given I'd be well within the rules to just ban these people on the spot.

If you or others want anything clarified further just PM me, lets get on with discussing football.