Review Mid-Season Review

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Murraj1966

Murraj1966

Brownlow Medallist
Veteran
Jun 13, 2009
12,436
12,891
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
Well guys and girls we're at the halfway point now probably not where we expected to be at 5-6 (for multiple reasons)

What are your thoughts on the season so far? Are we ahead of where you had us pre-season? Do you think finals are still possible?

Personally I'm thinking this feels like 2016-17 St Kilda again in that they can win every now and then but put in some absolutely stinkers and will probably finish the year with 11 wins or so.

After being 4-1 the last 6 weeks have been utter crap which is really disappointing, but hopefully Hanners can fill that leadership void from losing Gears in the 2nd half of the year, and we can see Maxy debut without injuries.
 
If you had asked me at the start of the year; would I be happy with 5-6 at the bye, the answer would be absolutely yes.

I came into the year thinking it would be a tough year again. The first 5 rounds were a positive surprise. I do think however we got some teams early on their off days. Hawthorn & Essendon can throw games that beat anyone and games where they look dour. But a win is a win. The last 6 weeks is probably more a reflection of we're we are at. We're better than the bottom four, but not as good as the top 8.

We still have a lot to do before we're a finals side. I'm disappointed in our young brigade, whatever that reason may be. I am however really happy with some of the mature recruits, Parker and Wilkie. Great finds there.

There are some year defining games coming up; Gold Coast, North and Doggies. We're all in the same basket. Anything less than 2/3 and its a failure.

Gut feel we end up 9 wins for the year. I would have taken that at the start of the year, but also weary that puts us in mediocre territory. A top 10 pick again in a reported shallow draft. There will be some movement years end from around the whole league, sit tight and hope it falls our way.
 
I was feeling rather positive about what we were doing up until the China debacle, i thought we lost our way, i was never happy we were going in the first place.

We have good players coming back in the second half, and this should improve us, not by a lot, but enough to win a few more games. If we can win a few more games and finish 8-10 thats where i was predicting we would fall, if not 11 and below, that will be below my expectations but i wont sook too much over it.

Some players and staff will be shuffled at the end of the season, i will wait with anticipation to see how the cards fall.

Time to regroup, lock and load, and come out firing after the bye.
 

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As gutted as I am with yesterday's performance, if someone had told me we'd be 5-6 and have to do it without Steven, Hannebery, Carlisle, Geary, Roberton etc. I'd have taken it in a heart beat.

I'm really worried about the trend over the last few weeks though and hope like hell it doesn't continue after the bye.

- Plenty of positives.
I think Battle moving to CHB has been a terrific move from Richo. He looks like becoming an A grader IMO and I had my doubts early.

Marshall is on his way to becoming one of the best ruckmen in the comp and Gresham is showing that he'll be more than just a small forward.

I think our recruiting of mature agers with late picks gets a big tick. Parker and Wilkie both look like they will be long term players and Kent was a decent money ball pick when you consider the average games played for the pick we gave up for him is 8.

King having zero set backs and being able to perform well at VFL level

- Negatives
Hannebery not playing a game for the whole first half of the year was not a ideal. I've just got my fingers crossed the medicos have sorted him out because we need him if we aren't going to fall off the cliff.

The amount of 23-24 year olds that just can't take that next step. Steele, Sinclair, Dunstan, Acres etc have been around long enough now.

The development of Hunter Clark. Was dropped after two games, had to sit out as the emergency and then the bye, killed it at VFL, came back in dropped after one game, again our best player in the VFL for a good block, flew over to China, couldn't get a game even with the longest injury list in the comp and will have to sit out another fortnight of footy. I get very frustrating watching other sides around us back their kids like Bailey Smith, LDU, Cerra, Dow, Brayshaw. None of them are getting huge numbers but are persisted with for decent blocks at a time.

Our lack of scoring. We are third worst attacking side in the comp. I put a lot of it down to our lack of class the midfield as our forward entries continue to be poor. Obviously our kicking for goal is still a huge issue which I just can't work out after 3 or 4 years of it.
 
The main positives have probably been Wilkie and Parker. Gresham has shown he could become something special. Paton showed some good signs too. Battle into the backline a revelation.

Injuries have been terrible. Goal-kicking still a massive problem.

All in all we have done ok considering, but I'd love to see a young midfielder emerge. Clark and Coffield have been very disappointing so far. Phillips is meh.

The China game was a real soul-sucker.
 
Observations so far..
A bunch of scrambling wins, with no real dominance over the opposition in most cases.

The only shining lights so far have been the improvement of Marshall and Battle, the good form of Wilke, and Lonie (until injured)and OK form of Dmac and Geary(until injured). I actually think that Lonie's intensity at the contest is above all others in the team, and with him gone, it exposed a lot of lazy players.

Gresh is too slow and not strong enough as a midfielder- he is a skilled opportunist forward. Ross and Dunstan try hard, but are one-paced and slow to recover in contests and don't penetrate or hurt the opposition with their disposals. Steel tries hard defensively, but is opponents do well too. Phillips is not quite up to it yet. As a matter of fact, our onballers just don't get their hands on the ball enough to have a major influence.

Parker will get better with this season under his belt, Membrey suffers from not having another big marking forward to help out- Bruce is not making a statement in the forward line and I just don't think his place can be justified. Kent also suffers from not having effective big forwards to feed off as a small forward, and our stupidly congested forward line structure doesn't help. Long and Young are not up to it.

General skill errors are still there and haven't improved (coaching fail)

Not sure where we go from here for the rest of the season.
 
In the context of last season and all that was revealed, I'm happy with where we're at. The injuries to our better players has allowed some kids and rookies to get a run and exposed our 2nd tear of leaders to some scrutiny, under which they have been found wanting.

This is all good stuff IMO. Part of the necessary tribulations that we needed if we're to sort the wheat from the chaff and put a winning list together.

Given that we were never a contender, we are and always were by definition a developing team, and we have developed.
I really only see positives coming out of the 2nd half of the season.
We've already found Parker, Wilkie, Battle, Paton, Marsh and Marshall this year, and coming soon Ming, Hanners, Snake and hopefully Whitey is given a proper go because he can't have done much more.
We also have some ip in our gameplan which will improve with time and some better players.
Perhaps the only solid negative is the development of Clark and Coff though they we're making steady progress in vfl and we have brought them into an absolute sh1t-show from day one so it makes sense that they've been a little stunted.
I'm looking forward to the rest of the season with expectations set at minimum, and the coming off season with some heads to roll and expectations at maximum.
Time to sit back and watch, with maybe just a touch of eco...
 
positives, and there are actually quite a few

Gresh
Billings
Marshall
Wilkie
Parker
Battle
Lonie
Membrey
Paton
Dmac (come@me)
King
Savage
Dunstan's return to form

marsh & kent (if he was more accurate he'd be a player) for peanuts

Ratten
Playfair's work with the backline

neutral/negatives

Acres
Ross
Newnes
Longer/Lewy
Sinclair
Bruce

our percentage/blowouts, and inaccuracy


Overall I still think we're a long way off being a real player come finals, but I think we're in a much better place list wise than we were a year ago. Carlisle and Hanners to come into the team, Clark will come good, we need to draft a mid with our first pick and we'll be in an ok position.

Our main issue is the players we've invested in that haven't come good/our mature players that aren't damaging enough; ross, newnes, sinclair, acres...

They're becoming borderline list cloggers. Ross obviously should be a level above the other three but his form at the moment is seriously lacklustre. Especially when compared to senior mids of the past; Hayes, Dal Santo, Monty, Goddard, etc... it hurts to think he's the guy our younger players look to. Not good enough.

2020, once we get carlisle and hanners back we'd look something like

Dmac, Carlisle, Wilkie
Web, Battle , Savage
JB , spook, paton
lonie, Bruce, skunk
parker, King, gresh

Marshall, hanners, clark

Bytel waiting in the wings

I think there's quite a lot more talent in that group than we've had over the past few years, though a lot of it just potential at this stage, which is why we need someone who can really get the most out of them. Time to sack the cho bring in the Rat. Six years is enough.
 
Marshall clearly the biggest positive. The way he is going could be the best ruck in the AFL in a couple of years. A couple of new guys going ok. 5 and 6 with no injuries was way ahead of what I thought. 5 and 6 with injuries is amazing. Expect around 9 wins which will see Richo gone.

Negatives is the midfield and injuries.
 
MOLTEN GANGLANDS said:
positives, and there are actually quite a few

Gresh
Billings
Marshall
Wilkie
Parker
Battle
Lonie
Membrey
Paton
Dmac (come@me)
King
Savage
Dunstan's return to form

marsh & kent (if he was more accurate he'd be a player) for peanuts

Ratten
Playfair's work with the backline

neutral/negatives

Acres
Ross
Newnes
Longer/Lewy
Sinclair
Bruce

our percentage/blowouts, and inaccuracy


Overall I still think we're a long way off being a real player come finals, but I think we're in a much better place list wise than we were a year ago. Carlisle and Hanners to come into the team, Clark will come good, we need to draft a mid with our first pick and we'll be in an ok position.

Our main issue is the players we've invested in that haven't come good/our mature players that aren't damaging enough; ross, newnes, sinclair, acres...

They're becoming borderline list cloggers. Ross obviously should be a level above the other three but his form at the moment is seriously lacklustre. Especially when compared to senior mids of the past; Hayes, Dal Santo, Monty, Goddard, etc... it hurts to think he's the guy our younger players look to. Not good enough.

2020, once we get carlisle and hanners back we'd look something like

Dmac, Carlisle, Wilkie
Web, Battle , Savage
JB , spook, paton
lonie, Bruce, skunk
parker, King, gresh

Marshall, hanners, clark

Bytel waiting in the wings

I think there's quite a lot more talent in that group than we've had over the past few years, though a lot of it just potential at this stage, which is why we need someone who can really get the most out of them. Time to sack the cho bring in the Rat. Six years is enough.
Click to expand...
Where do you think a team like that would finish up on the ladder end of 2020 ?
 
plugger66 said:
Marshall clearly the biggest positive. The way he is going could be the best ruck in the AFL in a couple of years. A couple of new guys going ok. 5 and 6 with no injuries was way ahead of what I thought. 5 and 6 with injuries is amazing. Expect around 9 wins which will see Richo gone.

Negatives is the midfield and injuries.
Click to expand...

He's a crap ruck , but he's a good midfielder who can contest the ruck.
The AFL has only 4 ruckmen who average more than 10 contested possessions per game.

Grundy, nearly 14
Marshall, nearly 11
Gawn 10.5
Kreuzer 10.2

He has around half the hitouts of Grundy or Gawn.
Hitouts to advantage, he has around 6, they have around 12 per game.
 

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SaintsSeptember said:
He's a crap ruck , but he's a good midfielder who can contest the ruck.
The AFL has only 4 ruckmen who average more than 10 contested possessions per game.

Grundy, nearly 14
Marshall, nearly 11
Gawn 10.5
Kreuzer 10.2

He has around half the hitouts of Grundy or Gawn.
Hitouts to advantage, he has around 6, they have around 12 per game.
Click to expand...

And he has rucked for 9 games to their over 100. His ruck work will improve every year. Last year he couldn't even hit the ball. Now they know he is the man they will work all pre season on that. Last pre season they still thought he was a forward who would occasionally ruck.
 
Positives:

Marshall - a revelation. Has really taken his opportunity after our ruck woes early on. Can’t wait to see how much better he gets.

Gresham - an excellent season but since he re-signed has gone up yet another level. Has really developed his game.

Defence - starting to develop some great defenders - battle Wilkie and McKenzie have really started to show they are capable and brown and Webster help immensely.

Josh Bruce has rediscovered his brilliant contested marking talent. Ditto Membrey

We are 5-6 despite injuries and a tough first half draw versus teams a LOT better than us.

We’ve unearthed a few great players like Wilkie, Parker and I like what I’ve seen of Marsh so far. Early days but positive signs for them.

This is a weird one but Stuv taking time off while he’s not well is very good. We played him. He wasn’t ready. He had another break. It’s a tough call but it’s the right one. Well done to all involved with this.

Hanners is fingers crossed on the way back and hopefully will play for us soon. Ditto for king.

Another weird one - note like a backhanded compliment but our Midfield is average - yet what they have been able to achieve despite this is pretty impressive. I would like to see some midfield depth added though.

Negatives:

Goal kicking and disposal in general forward half of the ground. Disgraceful. Unacceptable. Must be addressed. Especially set shot kicking.

Injuries. ‘Nuff said really.

Kent - rubbish. One good game out of eleven. And we can’t drop him because if the aforementioned injuries. Has done some good things I’ll admit but is not worth giving up those picks for. Disappointing.

No games from hanners after what we gave for him is equally disappointing. Yes I know there are circumstances but still it sucks.

Literally no persistence with hunter Clark. The poor kid just can’t catch a break.

Overall: give us a B-

Not bad given the hand we’ve been dealt but we are ahead where I expected to be. Was expecting 1-2 wins by round 11 and 8-9 overall.

I still think 8-9 overall is probable and that will give us a solid pass for the year.

I don’t overrate our list. But some of our younger kids who I was hoping to show something have done so which is nice to know our future may not be as dire as I thought.
 
SaintsSeptember said:
He's a crap ruck , but he's a good midfielder who can contest the ruck.
The AFL has only 4 ruckmen who average more than 10 contested possessions per game.

Grundy, nearly 14
Marshall, nearly 11
Gawn 10.5
Kreuzer 10.2

He has around half the hitouts of Grundy or Gawn.
Hitouts to advantage, he has around 6, they have around 12 per game.
Click to expand...
You want longer i take it or maybe Lewis , I will stick with Marshall every day of the week
 
If we can grab one mature B+ A grade mid and one talented kid like Steele during trade week I'll be thrilled.

If it means trading out a fan fave then I'm cool with that.

As Pebbles noted, a few of them have failed to step up for the second year in a row. Last year we blamed Richo, this year not so much due to coaching changes.

Eventually the spotlight must be turned on the players as well.
 
On final ladder position - I'd say we have six wins coming in the back half of the season.

The upside is we play the current bottom six, the downside being that we are basically an over performing bottom 6 team at the moment. I reckon we win 5/6 of those.

Pinch one of the three against Bris, Richmond and Freo. Lose the others.

If the word about Richo's trigger clause is correct then we'll have a mid-first round pick and a new coach so we'll see how we go.

Edit: I should say, the fixture really is pretty interesting. I think we benefit from when we play North and Carlton; I think any 'new coach' effect will have worn off by the time we get to them and expect both to be wins. Melbourne we should get when their season is mathematically already over; and it's at Marvel. Sydney should have the cue firmly in the rack too but jeez we play badly against them so who knows.

On the flipside, we have Brisbane in just under three weeks; Richmond the week after. Carlisle and Lonie were both listed at 4 - 6 weeks on the injury report last week - could they be back for either of those games? I assume both need VFL first so probably not Bris; or Richmond but those are both crucial games.

If we have Webster, Carslisle, Lonie and Hanners up for the Richmond game; and dare I say it even Stuv and a 2nd or third game for one M King; the back end of the season could start to look very different.
 
Last edited:
A lot of folks here had us 2/9 or 3/8 at the start of the season. I had us about where we are so I'm pleasantly surprised to be right for once

To do it with the injury list and more importantly who they were and the structural impact that has caused is very impressive.

Having said that- i am just incredibly frustrated to see the same old issue of crap fwd entries killing us week in week out.

I watched at least 6 times on Sunday that we had a ball carrier at 70m out bomb it to the same spot despite plenty of vacant space 40m directly in front. The opposition defence didn't even bother marking the empty space coz they knew where we would go. A simple lowering of the eyes and a spot up kick would have given us a set shot 45m out directly in front

I mean, the player would have missed, but still....

The introduction of Ratts and all the wonderment on how great he's been doesn't seem to have translated to better use in the area of the ground he's responsible for. If we are gonna whack Richo then let's be fair - it can't be all his fault

I think it's obvious we are a mix of GOPs and promising kids. I can't see us hitting our peak for another 18 months - 2 years min. As much as I'd love a superstar like Cogs, we are probably best served hitting the draft again.

Reckon we finish on 10-11 wins. That would be a decent result given the problems we have had with the list.
 
Well, we were on top of the ladder and have been going down, down, down. If I ran a business like that, I would be broke very quickly.
 
Would have taken 5-6 at the start of the year. I reckon most would’ve had Richo gone by now.

Positives:

- Marshall: Basically another midfielder, love it.

- Gresham: on his way to stardom. Feel like whenever I check his contested stats he’s won 12 and he’s just warming up.

- Billings: continuation of his good second half last year but took it to another level this year. Still building.

- Parker + Wilkie: good mature pick ups. Big tick for the new head of recruiting.

- Dunstan: may be turning into the contested beast we thought he’d be 4-5 years ago.

- Battle: finally after drafting or trading for a thousand defenders our CHB for the future is a forward turned defender..who would’ve thought.

Negatives:

- Constant long bombs into the F50 like that’s going to get us anywhere.

- Defense is only good against ordinary teams.

- Jack Steele is almost getting into Dunstan territory of not improving for half a decade. Has not gone on with his end of last season form at all.

- Clarke and Coffield, though at least Clarke is playing well in the VFL. Not sure why he doesn’t get a good run in the seniors.

Have to be happy with where we are after last year. Seemed like there was no hope in 2018, at least we’ve got that back now. 5-6 with so many key players out and three top 10 draft picks developing in the VFL is something to build off.
 
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