Midfield Restructure

[Vhaluus]

Lyons was the very definition of a list clogger.

No that's mackay

 

[Geoffa32]

We saw the best of Lyons last year.

Him leaving gives potentially better players a chance to grab a spot.

Keeping Lyons was a safe option. He is a low end AFL capable footballer and will look good at the Suns if they remain a bottom 8 side

Much like Kerridge and Wright at Carlton.

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[Vader]

No that's mackay

It's Mackay and Lyons. Both.

Only difference is that Mackay has a contract for 2017, Lyons didn't.

 

[Vhaluus]

It's Mackay and Lyons. Both.

Only difference is that Mackay has a contract for 2017, Lyons didn't.

Only difference is lyons was a solid performer who performed well most nearly every week.

 

[Vader]

Only difference is lyons was a solid performer who performed well most nearly every week.

Lyons was a fringe player who had no scope for further improvement, and who would have hung around for years - occupying a slot that could have been used to develop a kid with greater potential. A list clogger.

And yes, Mackay is/was a list clogger too.

 

[Vhaluus]

Lyons was a fringe player who had no scope for further improvement, and who would have hung around for years - occupying a slot that could have been used to develop a kid with greater potential. A list clogger.

And yes, Mackay is/was a list clogger too.

We will see lyons improve this year.

 

[Elite Crow]

Lyons was a fringe player who had no scope for further improvement, and who would have hung around for years - occupying a slot that could have been used to develop a kid with greater potential. A list clogger.

And yes, Mackay is/was a list clogger too.

Must be good being such a guru that you can make a call that a player has no improvement in him despite actually showing improvement during the course of last year. Which game did the improvement stop?

 

[Vader]

We will see lyons improve this year.

I doubt that very much. He hit his ceiling in 2014, and his ceiling wasn't particularly high. Think Kerridge & Wright at Carlton, and you won't be too far off the mark.

 

[Bay62]

Must be time for my annual post on this subject

I know he's our best key forward atm but I'd like to see JJ played in the guts

Big bodied midfielder, would hold his position, strong as an ox and quick too. The closest thing we now have to Dangerfield. Get him in there and barreling through a few opposition players

I'm just gonna keep saying it until it happens

 

[mistylake]

Mods, please merge if you feel this is covered in the other treads, I feel its a mix of a few..

So with CEY now ruled out for the season we need a pretty big restructure on our plans, one that showed obvious signs and helps in many ways, was evident on Friday night.. Yes its been done and dusted a number of times in conversation but....

With the Way Wigg controlled that back line, he and Laird could become a very nice rebounding duo, that means we actually DO have the ability to move SMITH out of there finally, its a solid body, line breaking speed and thumping kick into the midfield, I think we are actually losing nothing in defense with Wigg taking Smith's position and Smith would be an upgrade on CEY if he had of played? Sorry if everyone feels this is too often bought up but I think today's events make it very very relevant again..

Smith can't take a knock very well. He's actually pretty brave but can't handle hits to the head. Got another in GBH1 and barely survived it. I just don't see him working out inside

 

[dogs105]

I doubt that very much. He hit his ceiling in 2014, and his ceiling wasn't particularly high. Think Kerridge & Wright at Carlton, and you won't be too far off the mark.

Leading goalkicker then?

 

[Golumless]

Lyons was in no way a list clogger

Took, what 5 seasons to cement himself in the best 22 and was discarded the second he did for whatever we could get for him. Sorry, that's a list clogger.

 

[Rear Admiral]

Very good Thread to be raised.
It's not just our general Midfield, per se.....but our Centre Square Mids. That's what needs to be re-jigged.

I would be looking at rotating absolutely every last non-Key-Position player - not just through the general Midfield, but through Centre Square rotations:

• Rory Atkins
• Brodie Smith
• Charlie Cameron
• Paul Seedsman
• Wayne Milera (yes, Milera)
• (All Betts on) Eddie
• Curtly Hampton
• "Brucey" Laird

....and these are just the names that spring to mind. We need at least one or two Greyhounds at the clearances/stoppages, not just all Blue Collar inside-grunt.

The days of a cemented, etched in stone, Centre Square lineup must be put to bed. And buried. That's what's been crucifying us previously.
When Dangermouse was in the side, he was forever getting battered and bashed in the Centre Square Scrimmages. Well, finally he was taken out of there and placed on a Half Back Flank (if I recall correctly). One of the best games he ever played. This is the sort of approach that's needed now. Would I play someone like him on a HBF week in, week out? Not at all. But on occasion? Definitely. Even Buddy Franklin gets moved around.
We must be prepared to mix-and-match, roll the dice....and regularly.

 

[weekend at bernies]

Smith in the midfield would be a better version than Gibbs... both similar size, both great kick and smith has the speed


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[Jeffcrowe]

Lyons was the very definition of a list clogger.

Lyons would be starting 2017 in the centre square if he was still around and averaging 22 disposals and almost a goal a game

That is no list clogger

You are being delusional

 

[Vader]

Lyons would be starting 2017 in the centre square if he was still around and averaging 22 disposals and almost a goal a game

That is no list clogger

You are being delusional

Sorry.. regarding him as anything but a list clogger is delusional.

 

[Golumless]

Lyons would be starting 2017 in the centre square if he was still around and averaging 22 disposals and almost a goal a game

That is no list clogger

You are being delusional

I'm not so sure. It says a lot that we're willing to chuck someone on the trash heap despite playing all of the season last, and arguably adding something to our midfield.

Simply put, we didn't rate him, so why would we be playing him in the midfield?

After all, we preferred Thommo in there to him last season.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I'm not so sure. It says a lot that we're willing to chuck someone on the trash heap despite playing all of the season last, and arguably adding something to our midfield.

Simply put, we didn't rate him, so why would we be playing him in the midfield?

After all, we preferred Thommo in there to him last season.

Thommo played in midfield before alot of blokes last year

It's ok to jump the fence , I didn't rate Lyons until last year either . I was wrong , he's a very capable AFL player who wins possession, clearances , contested ball and kicks goals

Let's see if the team is better off without him first , my initial thoughts after one game that doesn't mean much is NO

 

[GreyCrow]

Must be time for my annual post on this subject

I know he's our best key forward atm but I'd like to see JJ played in the guts

Big bodied midfielder, would hold his position, strong as an ox and quick too. The closest thing we now have to Dangerfield. Get him in there and barreling through a few opposition players

I'm just gonna keep saying it until it happens

I do think the future will be dominated by big bodied crash and bash types, but I would prefer a Greenwood over JJ for the role you want.

 

[Doctor B]

I do think the future will be dominated by big bodied crash and bash types, but I would prefer a Greenwood over JJ for the role you want.

Agree, Gov would also be great in the odd run through the middle, he is naturally aggressive, that is the major knock on JJ's game.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Whilst I had not written off CEY, he was not in my best 22.

IMHO, The MAESTRO has decided that we can't have too many slowish inside mids in the rotation. Last year we had Thommo and Matty Crouch as pure inside mids and Lyon playing a combination of forward and inside mid.

In a perfect world all our mids would be hybrids, capable of playing as both inside and outside mids. We will not see CEY this year and I expect to see less of Thommo which is fine providing Matty Crouch plays every game. I never expected CEY to take over the Thommo role and at best he would play a combination of forward and inside mid however I believe there are better options for this role.

So our midfield list is currently as follows; ( ) means this is a secondary role for the player.

Main Ruckman: Jacobs, O'Brien, (Hunter)
Forward / Second Ruckman: Jenkins, Dear, Hunter
Inside mid: M Crouch, Thompson, (Hampton), (Laird), Gore, (Greenwood),
Hybrid mid: Sloane, B Crouch, Douglas, (Wigg), (Knight), Gallucci, Poholke,
Outside mid: Atkins, Milera, Cameron, Mackay, (Seedsman), (Smith), (McGovern),
Forward/Mid: Knight, Hampton, CEY, Greenwood, (Gallucci),

I expect our core midfielders will be as follows;
Main Ruckman = Jacobs
Forward / Second Ruckman = Jenkins
Inside Mid = Matty Crouch
Hybrid Mids = Sloane, B Crouch, Douglas,
Outside mids = Atkins, Milera, Cameron
Forward/Mids = Knight, Hampton

This leaves room for seven players rotating through our back six (Brown, Hartigan, Lever, Smith, Talia, Laird and Cheney) and four players who spend most of their time forward (Betts, McGovern, Walker and Lynch).

This still leaves O'Brien, Dear Hunter, Thompson, Gore, Greenwood, Wigg, Gallucci, Poholke, Seedsman, Kelly, Mackay, Otten, Menzel, Doedee, Beech and Keath ready to step up if required. Other than CEY, only Himmelberg, Signorello, Davis and Jarman are not ready for AFL action.

Hampton is a hybrid midfielder too as capable on the outside as to being a pure inside mid/forward.

Imo, this year will be different to last year's structure, with us rotating defender through the midfield more. Last year it was Smith for about a third of games & this year I expect Laird will spend some time in the midfield too. This will likely mean some predominant midfielders are to spend time off a hbf. Deeper rotations & greater flexibility is the way to go.

 

[Maggsy]

We saw the best of Lyons last year.

Him leaving gives potentially better players a chance to grab a spot.

Keeping Lyons was a safe option. He is a low end AFL capable footballer and will look good at the Suns if they remain a bottom 8 side

Much like Kerridge and Wright at Carlton.

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Totally agree with this point.. If we had of kept Lyons in 2-3 years we'd be complaining about how our midfield lacks A-graders.. By trading him,. we at least have a chance that A) one of our young unproven kids gets a chance and could develop and B) Myles Poholke & Matthew Signorello (that we attained in the trade for him and pick 71) could be anything.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

Ok, so I watched the game again with a bit of a focus on centre bounces.

The players we used in centre bounces were: crouch (almost every CB), Douglas, Atkins, laird, Mackay, Poholke, Cameron (once or twice only). CEY in a few early.

Atkins looked horrible in there. Crouch and Douglas unsurprisingly looked seasoned and the others were a bit meh.

Interestingly I didn't notice any of Milera, Hampton or smith in a CB although there's probably a few I forgot to watch.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Ok, so I watched the game again with a bit of a focus on centre bounces.

The players we used in centre bounces were: crouch (almost every CB), Douglas, Atkins, laird, Mackay, Poholke, Cameron (once or twice only). CEY in a few early.

Atkins looked horrible in there. Crouch and Douglas unsurprisingly looked seasoned and the others were a bit meh.

Interestingly I didn't notice any of Milera, Hampton or smith in a CB although there's probably a few I forgot to watch.

Hampton defenitely started in there at least a couple of times, Wigg too. Neither did anything special though, hopefully we something there in the next game.

 

[1970crow]

BTW David Mackay is good at accumulating possessions. But always rushes his disposal and lacks composure.

I see a lot of Mackay in Wigg

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Huh, biggest knock on Mackay is that he can't get his hands on the pill.