Midfield Restructure

[Pdub]

Must be time for my annual post on this subject

I know he's our best key forward atm but I'd like to see JJ played in the guts

Big bodied midfielder, would hold his position, strong as an ox and quick too. The closest thing we now have to Dangerfield. Get him in there and barreling through a few opposition players

I'm just gonna keep saying it until it happens

I don't think he is quick enough at making decisions. You see it when he goes into the backline, when ever he marks the ball he needs to go all the way back and then takes his time deciding what decision to make and gives the opposition time to get back. In the forward line he just has to get it between the sticks.

 

[Damp Squarie]

No, it's improved. Crouch will be better, Hampton is better, Knight is in, cameron is better

Almost had to ask who is Knight?
Let hope he has shining armour the way people are talking him up.

 

[dogs105]

But you've said its improved and a whole bunch of players will be better without actually playing a game.

You also havent taken into account improvement in other teams midfields.

I have. We'll improve more.
What do you mean without playing a game? More games played by some of these guys since the same time last year, and they'll play more this year.
Also have another preseason behind them.

I do think it's improved. Vader doesn't. Rather than arguing now, we can just watch.

 

[Elite Crow]

I have. We'll improve more.
What do you mean without playing a game? More games played by some of these guys since the same time last year, and they'll play more this year.
Also have another preseason behind them.

I do think it's improved. Vader doesn't. Rather than arguing now, we can just watch.

I meant this year, they havent played this year.

 

[TexForPM]

Bulldogs rated 10th best midfield going into 2016 both they are 3rd. Stop regurgitating media spin. Yes, it our weakest line. If we improve that line we become much better.

 

[Vhaluus]

But you just answered your own question. In the early 2000s, our forward line wasn't good enough.

The last two years, our midfield hasn't been good enough.

Here's another point:

Our forward line isn't as good as we think it is. We have plenty of ground coverage, speed, and kicking ability. But we're missing a key ingredient and that's a pack-busting contested marking type.

Walker is obviously brilliant but he isn't Jonathan Brown or Wayne Carey. You can't build a forward line around him, he's a completely different player.

Mcgovern will become this missing link if we let him.

 

[Elite Crow]

Bulldogs rated 10th best midfield going into 2016 both they are 3rd. Stop regurgitating media spin. Yes, it our weakest line. If we improve that line we become much better.

There is a slight difference, there midfield was already full of young midfielders who were already playing and most of them were low picks, it was a given they would improve.

We are not in the same situation at all.

As for regurgitating media spin? You really think thats it? None of us can identify all by ourselves that the midfield is a concern?

Your last line is groundbreaking. Who would have though that.

 

[Godallblighty]

No, it's improved. Crouch will be better, Hampton is better, Knight is in, cameron is better

Matt Crouch should be better but probably not hugely. If we call Hampton Lyons' replacement, then that might be an upgrade, you'd hope so, but remains to be seen. Knight ought to be a plus certainly, especially if he's replacing Mackay. CC should continue to improve, yes, but how much midfield time is he going to get? Our weakness is in the centre square, not wingers.

I'd also add Douglas, who I would hope is in the midfield full time this year. Nominally, I guess he'd be Thommo's replacement. May also get Laird or Smith moving in there, but then neither of them is a proven performer in the centre. Can Rat play inside? Not sure.

Thompson will have declined further. Brouch will give us even less than he did last year, given his ongoing hamstring problems. Lyons is gone. Mrouch's improvement is likely to be marginal at best.

At best we've broken even, more likely the overall result is a slight deterioration.

If Thommo plays many games, we are definitely weaker. If he's in the SANFL though, you'd think we could improve on his output of last year. Agree on the Crouches - no guarantee we'll get much top shelf stuff from Brad. Matt will improve but probably not a lot. Sloane is break even and god help us if he gets injured. Jacobs is also a big factor and I'm very pessimistic about where he's at. Can't count on any of the newbies - any one of them might jump out of the box, but it's long odds.

The plus for this year's midfield is that it will be significantly faster, particularly if Thommo's done. But for all round quality we're relying on a lot of players producing a better level than they've shown previously. Doesn't mean they won't, and without a doubt someone will step up. Enough though?

I'd say we're treading water. Not sure if that's going to be good enough.

 

[ad victoriam]

IS this OK Mods if Not please remove,
We are banging on about our midfield and how bad it is, I have read one comment about the Bulldogs being rated 10 at the start of last year.
While we are not looking top 6 midfield at this time most say top 8, I would wait before pronouncing them.

10. Western Bulldogs
Best starting midfield:
C: Jason Johanissen, Tom Liberatore, Jack Macrae
Foll: Jordan Roughead, Mitch Wallis, Marcus Bontempelli

Depth players: Liam Picken, Luke Dahlhaus, Koby Stevens, Lin Jong, Lachie Hunter, Nathan Hrovat, Clay Smith, Will Minson, Tom Campbell, Tom Boyd, Josh Dunkley, Bailey Williams, Luke Goetz*

The Bulldogs boast a young and exciting midfield group, and in Liberatore will welcome back one of the competition's best clearance players in 2016. With Liberatore missing all of 2015 after undergoing a knee reconstruction, the Dogs finished a creditable ninth in clearances last season. However, they do have a genuine weakness in the ruck, finishing equal last in 2015 for hitouts to advantage, alongside Geelong and Essendon. Although the Bulldogs' raft of young on-ballers should continue to improve next season, the club's failure to secure a ruckman in October's trade period could come back to haunt them. – NE

11. Greater Western Sydney
Best starting midfield:
C: Tom Scully, Callan Ward, Lachie Whitfield
Foll: Shane Mumford, Dylan Shiel, Stephen Coniglio

Depth players: Devon Smith, Toby Greene, Ryan Griffen, Josh Kelly, Steve Johnson, Rhys Palmer, Jacob Hopper, Matthew Kennedy, Paul Ahern, Jake Barrett, Jack Steele, Rory Lobb, Tom Downie, Dawson Simpson, Matthew Flynn

The Giants were without their No.1 ruckman, Mumford, and their most damaging midfielder, Shiel, for large chunks of last season. The loss of Mumford was particularly damaging, with GWS ranked in the bottom five of the competition for centre clearances and total clearances. With Mumford and Shiel expected to return to full fitness in 2016, and with their raft of youngsters benefitting from another pre-season, the Giants' midfield should rise up the rankings in 2016. – AC

12. Adelaide
Best starting midfield:
C: Richard Douglas, Scott Thompson, Brodie Smith
Foll: Sam Jacobs, Rory Sloane, Brad Crouch

Depth players: Paul Seedsman, David Mackay, Nathan van Berlo, Rory Atkins, Matt Crouch, Cam Ellis-Yolmen, Dean Gore, Mitch Grigg, Riley Knight, Jarryd Lyons, Paul Hunter*, Luke Lowden, Reilly O'Brien*

Although the Crows salvaged a fair trade for Dangerfield, the midfield star's exit will hurt in the short-term. Adelaide was ranked third in the AFL for clearances last season, with Dangerfield the fifth-ranked player in the competition. For the Crows to remain strong at stoppages in 2016, veteran Thompson will have to stay fit and in form, and Brad Crouch will have to overcome his recent injury woes. Adelaide also needs to lift its midfield pressure acts, having been ranked 12th in this area in 2015. – NB

 

[marty36]

Matt Crouch should be better but probably not hugely. If we call Hampton Lyons' replacement, then that might be an upgrade, you'd hope so, but remains to be seen. Knight ought to be a plus certainly, especially if he's replacing Mackay. CC should continue to improve, yes, but how much midfield time is he going to get? Our weakness is in the centre square, not wingers.

I'd also add Douglas, who I would hope is in the midfield full time this year. Nominally, I guess he'd be Thommo's replacement. May also get Laird or Smith moving in there, but then neither of them is a proven performer in the centre. Can Rat play inside? Not sure.

If Thommo plays many games, we are definitely weaker. If he's in the SANFL though, you'd think we could improve on his output of last year. Agree on the Crouches - no guarantee we'll get much top shelf stuff from Brad. Matt will improve but probably not a lot. Sloane is break even and god help us if he gets injured. Jacobs is also a big factor and I'm very pessimistic about where he's at. Can't count on any of the newbies - any one of them might jump out of the box, but it's long odds.

The plus for this year's midfield is that it will be significantly faster, particularly if Thommo's done. But for all round quality we're relying on a lot of players producing a better level than they've shown previously. Doesn't mean they won't, and without a doubt someone will step up. Enough though?

I'd say we're treading water. Not sure if that's going to be good enough.

Agree Thommo should decline, but we are saying what if's for Hampton, Atkins, Crouch, Crouch, Knight. At least we know what Thommo actually can do and what he has had in him in the past. The others we have no idea what so ever we are hoping they can play better. So the what if of thommo not declining but overcoming his injuries is probably as likely if not more likely than trying to predict who can play better, that clearly isnt the concern with thommo, his ability is proven its his age that could be the problem. If just one of those players mentioned could play like Thommo at his peak I would be stoked, but it is very unlikely they will

 

[Godallblighty]

I agree, too many what ifs for my liking. But Thommo at his peak is quite a way in the rear view mirror. He isn't declining, he has declined. Terminally IMO. Could maybe play fill in games against the weaker sides if needed. He was great for a long time, but he's not any more.

 

[LoBu]

The midfield restructure for me starts with MCrouch moving into Thommos position. Curtly is pretty much a lock Lyons role, so what is left is who will take MCrouch's role?
For me it is simple, the on ball should be the best player. While Laird and Smith might rotate through, along with Milera Jr and Knight, I can't see them ever being our best player.

I'm hoping it's Gullucci long term - otherwise we are going to be in trouble - but even guns like Cripps take a year.

So likely Thommo will be around a bit longer than we'd all like. Reality is, he is better than Laird, Smith, Atkins, Milera, Knight, Douglas, Wigg, Gore, Mackay and his best will probably always be better. Unless Milera turns out to be a gun, but Thommo was a gun too (even if he can't kick a goal to save his life - the biggest thing that stopped him from superstar).

Is he still better than all of them? Maybe.

Sloane
BCrouch
MCrouch
???????

Who is our fourth best mid?

 

[baldandbroke]

Almost had to ask who is Knight?
Let hope he has shining armour the way people are talking him up.

Who is Knight ???? ... true supporter here boys and girls

 

[TexForPM]

There is a slight difference, there midfield was already full of young midfielders who were already playing and most of them were low picks, it was a given they would improve.

We are not in the same situation at all.

As for regurgitating media spin? You really think thats it? None of us can identify all by ourselves that the midfield is a concern?

Your last line is groundbreaking. Who would have though that.

I hadn't had my morning coffee.

I see our midfields as very similar based on the end on 2015. With our forwards like their backs and our backline like their forwards.

 

[Damp Squarie]

Who is Knight ???? ... true supporter here boys and girls

I know who Riley Knight is you muppet.

 

[LoBu]

I know who Riley Knight is you muppet.

Muppet is the best insult, its hard to come back from that as everybody is already thinking of a muppet.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

The midfield restructure for me starts with MCrouch moving into Thommos position. Curtly is pretty much a lock Lyons role, so what is left is who will take MCrouch's role?
For me it is simple, the on ball should be the best player. While Laird and Smith might rotate through, along with Milera Jr and Knight, I can't see them ever being our best player.

I'm hoping it's Gullucci long term - otherwise we are going to be in trouble - but even guns like Cripps take a year.

So likely Thommo will be around a bit longer than we'd all like. Reality is, he is better than Laird, Smith, Atkins, Milera, Knight, Douglas, Wigg, Gore, Mackay and his best will probably always be better. Unless Milera turns out to be a gun, but Thommo was a gun too (even if he can't kick a goal to save his life - the biggest thing that stopped him from superstar).

Is he still better than all of them? Maybe.

Sloane
BCrouch
MCrouch
???????

Who is our fourth best mid?

For now it needs to be a combo of Douglas, Laird and Smith...experienced, quality players.

Douglas is the safe bet to contribute but not be a fully fledged A grader so he's in the rotation but not a great hope.

We have to give Laird and Smith every chance this week. Smith I fear is a little fragile but could be dynamic...style wise the ambition would be a Judd type. Laird on the other would not be as dynamic but for mine is most likely on the whole list this year to have the ability to be a consistent A grade midfield contributor.

It would be awesome if Wigg stepped up even more this week also.

On the outside we are set with Cameron, Milera, Atkins, Knight, Hampton...all of whom could play cameos in the middle.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Brown is the other one who I'd like to see given a crack. Despite all the protests, there are times you need a mid who can be at least accountable...Brown would fit the bill nicely.

 

[baldandbroke]

Muppet is the best insult, its hard to come back from that as everybody is already thinking of a muppet.

I looooove the muppets. Sweetums is pretty much spot on for me ...

 

[TexForPM]

Muppet is the best insult, its hard to come back from that as everybody is already thinking of a muppet.

 

[kulak]

IS this OK Mods if Not please remove,
We are banging on about our midfield and how bad it is, I have read one comment about the Bulldogs being rated 10 at the start of last year.
While we are not looking top 6 midfield at this time most say top 8, I would wait before pronouncing them.

10. Western Bulldogs
Best starting midfield:
C: Jason Johanissen, Tom Liberatore, Jack Macrae
Foll: Jordan Roughead, Mitch Wallis, Marcus Bontempelli

Depth players: Liam Picken, Luke Dahlhaus, Koby Stevens, Lin Jong, Lachie Hunter, Nathan Hrovat, Clay Smith, Will Minson, Tom Campbell, Tom Boyd, Josh Dunkley, Bailey Williams, Luke Goetz*

The Bulldogs boast a young and exciting midfield group, and in Liberatore will welcome back one of the competition's best clearance players in 2016. With Liberatore missing all of 2015 after undergoing a knee reconstruction, the Dogs finished a creditable ninth in clearances last season. However, they do have a genuine weakness in the ruck, finishing equal last in 2015 for hitouts to advantage, alongside Geelong and Essendon. Although the Bulldogs' raft of young on-ballers should continue to improve next season, the club's failure to secure a ruckman in October's trade period could come back to haunt them. – NE

11. Greater Western Sydney
Best starting midfield:
C: Tom Scully, Callan Ward, Lachie Whitfield
Foll: Shane Mumford, Dylan Shiel, Stephen Coniglio

Depth players: Devon Smith, Toby Greene, Ryan Griffen, Josh Kelly, Steve Johnson, Rhys Palmer, Jacob Hopper, Matthew Kennedy, Paul Ahern, Jake Barrett, Jack Steele, Rory Lobb, Tom Downie, Dawson Simpson, Matthew Flynn

The Giants were without their No.1 ruckman, Mumford, and their most damaging midfielder, Shiel, for large chunks of last season. The loss of Mumford was particularly damaging, with GWS ranked in the bottom five of the competition for centre clearances and total clearances. With Mumford and Shiel expected to return to full fitness in 2016, and with their raft of youngsters benefitting from another pre-season, the Giants' midfield should rise up the rankings in 2016. – AC

12. Adelaide
Best starting midfield:
C: Richard Douglas, Scott Thompson, Brodie Smith
Foll: Sam Jacobs, Rory Sloane, Brad Crouch

Depth players: Paul Seedsman, David Mackay, Nathan van Berlo, Rory Atkins, Matt Crouch, Cam Ellis-Yolmen, Dean Gore, Mitch Grigg, Riley Knight, Jarryd Lyons, Paul Hunter*, Luke Lowden, Reilly O'Brien*

Although the Crows salvaged a fair trade for Dangerfield, the midfield star's exit will hurt in the short-term. Adelaide was ranked third in the AFL for clearances last season, with Dangerfield the fifth-ranked player in the competition. For the Crows to remain strong at stoppages in 2016, veteran Thompson will have to stay fit and in form, and Brad Crouch will have to overcome his recent injury woes. Adelaide also needs to lift its midfield pressure acts, having been ranked 12th in this area in 2015. – NB

Meaningless, because it talks about absolute number of clearances.

Clearance differential, inside 50 differential, would be relevant.

 

[ad victoriam]

Meaningless, because it talks about absolute number of clearances.

Clearance differential, inside 50 differential, would be relevant.

This is where most of the experts had these teams Midfield rated at the start of last year, yes some experts may use the stats to justify most just knocked the Crows down the list because we lost Dangerfield,
This year the same people have GWS as 2 and Western Bulldogs as 2, with the Crows at 11, again some of the experts have used the stats to justify, but they also knocked the Crows down because of depth and the fact we had a good run with injuries But did we.

Also if they were based on the absolute number of Clearance then the Crows would not be rated at 12 as they were 4th in 2015 and if that's the case then why not apply the same standard for this year when Rated 11th but were 4th in total clearance.

 

[mistylake]

Muppet is the best insult, its hard to come back from that as everybody is already thinking of a muppet.

I'm pretty fond of Tex's old school "Galoot".

 

[1970crow]

But you've said its improved and a whole bunch of players will be better without actually playing a game.

You also havent taken into account improvement in other teams midfields.

I think both Crouches will improve, Sloane to remain the same and Dougie to be a significant improvement on Thommo's last 17 games of jogging from stoppage to stoppage. Lyons was very handy, but I see further improvement by getting Laird, CC, Smith and Rat working closer to the contest. Injury notwithstanding, I'm expecting a better midfield group than last year. And more dynamic.

Edit - forgot Hampton and Knight who will provide a little bit in their as well.

 

[ad victoriam]

To show a different light on our midfield
Would I be wrong to assume that sometimes people only remember they last couple of games, and forget how we went prior to that.
Also do we forget while we did not rotate many players, most of the injuries were to our potential Midfield players. ie Hampton, Knights, B Crouch, Seedsman, Liard, Henderson, Menzel. The side effect to this is some players played more games than they should have.
And before some start on Menzel think about this if he was fit and injury free he would have played in Douglas CC or Lyons role freeing them up to play more midfield minutes, even later in the season as he was just starting to play well he was injured. at a time when we needed more midfield grunt.
Yes we have a lot of unproven players in the side, let wait and see before we write off the midfield, I am confident we will surprise a few.