Strategy Midfield strengthen = rested players

Forethought

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Hi All,

I’ve noticed a trend over the last 2 weeks based on teams selected.
The following data is only on last weeks but with Adams , Seir and WHE we are set to benefit even more throughout the year.

This is all about a Game time of our mids or the wear and tear throughout the year with just one games break.

Based on our Mids excluding rucks last week our main players we’re Pendlebury 90 mins game time , Greenwood tagging 98 min , Sidebottom really held the wing at 103 mins , Treloar 84 mins ( the 4th lowest of all players both teams yet he had 39 poss ) Beams 87 mins ( 8th lowest of the 44 player and he had 36 poss ) .
That’s a total of 462 mins from top 5 mids .

RICHMOND was the closest with 474 mins ( 2.6% more . Really hard on this one as RICHMOND ran a few through the mids )

Our main potential opposition .

Geelong 558 mins or over 20% more than us.
MELBOURNE 517 mins or 12% more
West coast 510 mins or 11% more than us
GWS 501 mins or 9% more than us
Port over 25% more than us.

With our strength in mids coming in over the next 2 weeks we will be able to manage our wear and tear on our key players rather than having to rest them .

Other side won’t have the option and their Mids will be doing around 15-17% more per game than ours meaning they can’t rest them without missing a game.

Just some numbers but they look good for us.

Go the pies.
 

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Markfs

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so geelong's 5 best midfielders played 558 minutes.... or about 110 minutes each.... is that counting the warm-up?
 

sirlothie

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Hi All,

I’ve noticed a trend over the last 2 weeks based on teams selected.
The following data is only on last weeks but with Adams , Seir and WHE we are set to benefit even more throughout the year.

This is all about a Game time of our mids or the wear and tear throughout the year with just one games break.

Based on our Mids excluding rucks last week our main players we’re Pendlebury 90 mins game time , Greenwood tagging 98 min , Sidebottom really held the wing at 103 mins , Treloar 84 mins ( the 4th lowest of all players both teams yet he had 39 poss ) Beams 87 mins ( 8th lowest of the 44 player and he had 36 poss ) .
That’s a total of 462 mins from top 5 mids .

RICHMOND was the closest with 474 mins ( 2.6% more . Really hard on this one as RICHMOND ran a few through the mids )

Our main potential opposition .

Geelong 558 mins or over 20% more than us.
MELBOURNE 517 mins or 12% more
West coast 510 mins or 11% more than us
GWS 501 mins or 9% more than us
Port over 25% more than us.

With our strength in mids coming in over the next 2 weeks we will be able to manage our wear and tear on our key players rather than having to rest them .

Other side won’t have the option and their Mids will be doing around 15-17% more per game than ours meaning they can’t rest them without missing a game.

Just some numbers but they look good for us.

Go the pies.
Do you mean rested as in not playing or rested during the game? I can't see our gun players having a week off but for sure they might get more time on the bench to freshen up again which can only be a good thing and maybe why we run over the top of Richmond.
 

Ricky90

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But like, there's only a set amount of game time each match and only a set amount of players per team...

So surely it stands to reason that if our mids are resting/rotating more then our KPPs are spending more time on field?

Given our injury rate over years past in those positions, is it really a good thing?
 

noideaatall

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The mids should be rested.
I’m all for it.

I’d think play 12 games, then round 13 rest them.
Lol. No doubt in my mind if Malthouse hadn't been hell bent on getting a change to coaching plans in 2011 and had rested a few during that year, we could have won. Winning grand finals is more about the team that plays the finals than it is about the team that plays out the year. Look at Richmond last year.
 

sirlothie

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Lol. No doubt in my mind if Malthouse hadn't been hell bent on getting a change to coaching plans in 2011 and had rested a few during that year, we could have won. Winning grand finals is more about the team that plays the finals than it is about the team that plays out the year. Look at Richmond last year.
Yeah but if you rest your star players and you lose in AFL you get crucified for this. It doesn't work like that in soccer or basketball, players get rested in important games and they lose and noone bats an eyelid about it.
 

Forethought

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so geelong's 5 best midfielders played 558 minutes.... or about 110 minutes each.... is that counting the warm-up?
Yes that’s correct The Cats mids did spend that amount of game time.
I don’t mind answering honest questions , as for the other Dick—-do with no idea maybe that’s why they spend so much time on here .
 

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sirlothie

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Yes that’s correct The Cats mids did spend that amount of game time.
I don’t mind answering honest questions , as for the other Dick—-do with no idea maybe that’s why they spend so much time on here .
Huh who are you talking about? I don't see anything worth taking pot shots over...
 

Forethought

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Do you mean rested as in not playing or rested during the game? I can't see our gun players having a week off but for sure they might get more time on the bench to freshen up again which can only be a good thing and maybe why we run over the top of Richmond.
Hi Sirlothie, I definitely mean rest during the game by not playing as many mins . Our side can spread the load without a massive impact on the result . Playing Sier / others against lower sides while Beams / Treloar / Pendles Play predominantly an outside role or more forward not getting smashed week in week out allows for a freshened Midfield vs other teams .
 

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Markfs

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Yes that’s correct The Cats mids did spend that amount of game time.
I don’t mind answering honest questions , as for the other Dick—-do with no idea maybe that’s why they spend so much time on here .
so geelong is resting their key position players for longer than what we are. In fact, by the look of that chart you attached, the geelong mid fielders are hardly getting a break.....which is why I'm assuming that they are resting their key position people for long periods. That sounds a bit illogical. I'll go back to those charts
 

nahnah

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Treloar had 39 touches, 7 tackles and a goal... all while spending the 4th least time on field. Not bad.
 

Markfs

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well i looked at the afl advanced stats. They give a percentage of time on ground.....like 89% etc. I had a brief look at geelong and some of their guys might be around 90% compared to our 80%. I only looked for a few minutes. You might have a point. Good work
 

sr36

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well i looked at the afl advanced stats. They give a percentage of time on ground.....like 89% etc. I had a brief look at geelong and some of their guys might be around 90% compared to our 80%. I only looked for a few minutes. You might have a point. Good work
Cats mids are rotating through deep forward, ours are rotating through the bench. No big deal.
 

Markfs

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Cats mids are rotating through deep forward, ours are rotating through the bench. No big deal.
as i said, i didnt look into it and stats can be wrong even if you're an expert. I think generally speaking the team that can provide more combinations to go into the midfield, will enable players to get better rested and will be able to gain an advance or provide a defence against a midfield that is winning. But in the end if a team can have 4 players that kick goals, win centre breaks, run defensively etc etc and can run all day without a break, then that midfield will beat a midfield that uses 10 players but all of them are average. Resting on the bench might be an advantage over resting in the forward line but only on paper. Stats can be over-rated - see melb last weekend on inside 50s.
 

noideaatall

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Yeah but if you rest your star players and you lose in AFL you get crucified for this. It doesn't work like that in soccer or basketball, players get rested in important games and they lose and noone bats an eyelid about it.
True, in the short term. If resting leads ultimately to a gf then no worries. Do you think its the even nature of our competition, one loss in the home and away season can make all the difference, or a ingrained cultural attitude that does not value resting?
 

sirlothie

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True, in the short term. If resting leads ultimately to a gf then no worries. Do you think its the even nature of our competition, one loss in the home and away season can make all the difference, or a ingrained cultural attitude that does not value resting?
I think AFL has some of the strongest tribal rivalries in the world that even a regular season match up loss stings. I agree its all forgiven if premiership success occurs but week to week bragging rights are so important to AFL fans culturally, they hate copping **** about it so much. AFL team support is an identity, I don't know if other sports fans are just as wildly passionate as us.
 

Good_Old

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The stats need more context to get a better detailed picture of load imo, like distance covered, average speed etc.
 

Corby_4

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I think AFL has some of the strongest tribal rivalries in the world that even a regular season match up loss stings. I agree its all forgiven if premiership success occurs but week to week bragging rights are so important to AFL fans culturally, they hate copping **** about it so much. AFL team support is an identity, I don't know if other sports fans are just as wildly passionate as us.
EPL fans would easily give our league a run for fanaticism.
 

Forethought

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EPL fans would easily give our league a run for fanaticism.
I was in Barcelona last week and did a stadium tour only to find out that 39,000 people a week do the tour on non match days . Revenue of 91m€ that’s Fanaticism .
 

Quicky

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These were the centre bounce stats from the weekend (credit Billy Bob65 ):

Overall Summary (30 Bounces)
Greenwood 26
Pendlebury 25
Sidebottom 25 wing (1i)
Mayne 24 wing
Beams 22 (1w)
Treloar 17 (1w)
Phillips 7 wing
Aish 3 wing
Thomas 1

This shows the majority of the clearance load is currently being rotated between 4 players. This surprised me a bit as I expected a few more to set up in there.

Is this normal across other teams? I wonder if we ever lift that through the season?

It has implications onthe selection of players like Sier who play either on ball or nothing.
 

Billy Bob65

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Is this normal across other teams?
Yes and no - it ultimately depends on a combination of personnel available, coaching philosophy and where a team is in their premiership window (teams at the start will rotate more, regardless of philosophy, as most kids aren't physically equipped/fit enough to handle a full AFL midfield load/intensity in Y1).

The Clarkson philosophy at Hawthorn's peak was to rotate frequently - every forward (bar the back-up ruck) would rotate through the square over a game - and Beveridge followed this mantra during their premiership year. Conversely, a fair few of last year's top 8 sides did favour minimal inside rotations: Melbourne had their core 4 + Petracca & Jones for relief; Sydney ran with 3 + Heeney; GWS ran a 6 man mid group with Tomlinson taking a wing and the other 5 rotating through the square and other wing; and post-Gaff suspension, West Coast also successfully utilised the GWS formula.

Occasionally, you've also the complete and utter certifiable strategy - Essendon running 8 through the square (and 13 through the mids overall) in only a 4 bounce opening term against GWS.

I didn't review the GF, but here are the 2 most recent comparisons for Collingwood:

Rd 1 (22):

Pendlebury 20
Mayne 19 wing
Beams 17
Sidebottom 17 (11w, 6i)
Treloar 16
Phillips 15 (12w, 3i)
de Goey 4 (3i, 1w)
Thomas 1

Prelim (26):

Phillips 25 wing
Greenwood 19
Sier 16 (1w)
Adams 15
Pendlebury 15
Treloar 14
Mayne 9 wing
Stephenson 7 wing
Sidebottom* 3 wing
Thomas 3 wing
WHE 2 wing
Varcoe 1 wing

*At bounces, Sidebottom was mainly running off the back of the square, before becoming an extra mid around the contest.
 
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