Mega Thread Minnesota Timberwolves Thread - trust the pRosas.

Snake Charmer

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Don't let the door hit ya in the way out jimmy. Any trade was a win at this point... now when can we sack thibs?
 

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Upgrayedd

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A shocking trade and missed opportunity for Minnesota.

Those Houston x4 first rounders would have been a much better option.

For Thibs knowing his coaching position is on the line was always going to go for players rather than picks, as he won't survive if the T-Wolves miss the playoffs irrespective of how many picks gained in that trade.

It's just why you have your coach in charge of trades.
What protections were on those picks?


Anyways in the end getting rid of butler good
Covington menace in passing lanes good. Adds shooting
Pick up rich man Bjelica.
Just glad its over.
 

Coasters7

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A shocking trade and missed opportunity for Minnesota.

Those Houston x4 first rounders would have been a much better option.

For Thibs knowing his coaching position is on the line was always going to go for players rather than picks, as he won't survive if the T-Wolves miss the playoffs irrespective of how many picks gained in that trade.

It's just why you have your coach in charge of trades.
That’s what’s frustrating me the most out of all this. Thibs is stubborn and selfish and is willing to bring the whole thing down chasing what is likely to be a first round exit if they made it anyway. Hes stubborn and old fashioned when he coaches and you can see that’s his nature with everything.. Wiggins Lavine and Towns would have been coming into their prime just as the Warriors started to slow down. But he couldn’t see past trying to knock off what is close to the greatest team in history, by adding 1 all star he used to coach, to a lottery team.. He’ll walk away (probably at the end of the season as Taylor seems just as ignorant and stubborn) with the organisation in tatters once again, and all those hard years down the bottom wasted trying to challenge 4 all stars (at the time 3 but point still stands).
 

AngryRanga

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Just because Butler didn't work doesn't mean we have to pretend LaVine would have worked.

A core of KAT/Wiggins/LaVine at this point would get one stop a game.

The Wiggins or LaVine argument is legitimate, I'd take Zach at this point.
 

Dannnnnnnnnn

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KAT/Wiggins/LaVine is irrelevant as we'd never have given LaVine the extension he was chasing.

The more poignant possibility is KAT/Wiggins/Dunn/Markkanen.
 

dibikins

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A shocking trade and missed opportunity for Minnesota.

Those Houston x4 first rounders would have been a much better option.

For Thibs knowing his coaching position is on the line was always going to go for players rather than picks, as he won't survive if the T-Wolves miss the playoffs irrespective of how many picks gained in that trade.

It's just why you have your coach in charge of trades.
Far from shocking, hard to see how we get out of this with a better deal. Lose a high usage player who still relies on his mid range shooting and was disruptive to the team. In return we get 2 players who are much more adept at shooting 3, one being a decent defender and the other a member of All Defense Team. Saric is only 24 and a better fit next to Towns than Gibson is. Glad this is over, the way Butler has acted has a been a joke - even bigger joke for Thibs allowing it to occur.
 

Knightmare

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What protections were on those picks?


Anyways in the end getting rid of butler good
Covington menace in passing lanes good. Adds shooting
Pick up rich man Bjelica.
Just glad its over.
From the sound of it, the protections were minimal, though I've never heard specified what those protections were.

That’s what’s frustrating me the most out of all this. Thibs is stubborn and selfish and is willing to bring the whole thing down chasing what is likely to be a first round exit if they made it anyway. Hes stubborn and old fashioned when he coaches and you can see that’s his nature with everything.. Wiggins Lavine and Towns would have been coming into their prime just as the Warriors started to slow down. But he couldn’t see past trying to knock off what is close to the greatest team in history, by adding 1 all star he used to coach, to a lottery team.. He’ll walk away (probably at the end of the season as Taylor seems just as ignorant and stubborn) with the organisation in tatters once again, and all those hard years down the bottom wasted trying to challenge 4 all stars (at the time 3 but point still stands).
Thibs is about winning now.

If the T-Wolves don't make the playoffs, and this roster doesn't look like they'll come close without Butler, he's gone with certainty. Getting players who can contribute is what he needs to give himself a chance to be back.

Going the win-now route. I don't consider the trade made a good one.

The T-Wolves should absolutely keep Thibs as coach and he needs to go a lot harder on his players. But he should also have had the power taken away from him for a trading perspective from the moment Houston offered the x4 first rounders.
 

Knightmare

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Far from shocking, hard to see how we get out of this with a better deal. Lose a high usage player who still relies on his mid range shooting and was disruptive to the team. In return we get 2 players who are much more adept at shooting 3, one being a decent defender and the other a member of All Defense Team. Saric is only 24 and a better fit next to Towns than Gibson is. Glad this is over, the way Butler has acted has a been a joke - even bigger joke for Thibs allowing it to occur.
Losing one of the 10 best players in the NBA for role players?

The NBA is about star power.

Having the chance at x4 first rounders + Knight + M.Chriss is a hugely better return.

Getting those picks. That's a lot of assets. Knight and Chriss are expiring deals which is handy. Great potential trade pieces for a Minnesota team that isn't going to the playoffs without Butler.

--
Other than that Houston trade. The only other 'good' option was retaining Butler, committing a max deal to him and making clear that he's 1a and having Thibs and Butler push Towns and Wiggins to get better.
 

Coasters7

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Just because Butler didn't work doesn't mean we have to pretend LaVine would have worked.

A core of KAT/Wiggins/LaVine at this point would get one stop a game.

The Wiggins or LaVine argument is legitimate, I'd take Zach at this point.
I agree with the players as they are now but I’d argue that Towns and Wiggins would have come on a lot more with Lavine instead of Butler (from an off court and team morale perspective). They were all only 20-21 at the time and everyone was expecting a playoff team. Even if we didn’t want to extend Lavine we still gave up Markaanen and Dunn (add Patton to that list now). I’d be taking a starting 5 of Towns, LM, Wiggins/Lavine, a two way SF or SG, and Rose with Dunn and cap space from not signing Teague and Gibson, over the current situation.

I know it’s all hindsight now and at the time it was great to be trading in an all star.. but a bit of a longer term view and a better assessment of the roster could’ve avoided this whole mess before it hand the chance to begin. Thibs to worried about himself to be managing the roster as well as coaching.. to much personal emotion going into trades.
 

AngryRanga

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I'm happy with the trade, only because Saric+Covington's contracts are so nice.

Probably missed Josh Richardson because of Thibs stubborness, which is terrible.
 

Dannnnnnnnnn

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The rotation becomes a bit of a question mark now.

Bayless won't see minutes regularly but the point guard situation is still a bit up in the air. Teague, Rose, Jones - does one of them get moved? Who? Who starts?

In the front court, KAT is a certainty to start but from there, Gibson, Saric, Tolliver and Dieng are all worthy of minutes. Does Dieng move on with Taj taking some minutes at the 5? Who starts at PF? Does Saric play more wing for us?

At the wings - Wiggins, Okogie, Covington, maybe Saric: who starts?
 

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Knightmare

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The rotation becomes a bit of a question mark now.

Bayless won't see minutes regularly but the point guard situation is still a bit up in the air. Teague, Rose, Jones - does one of them get moved? Who? Who starts?

In the front court, KAT is a certainty to start but from there, Gibson, Saric, Tolliver and Dieng are all worthy of minutes. Does Dieng move on with Taj taking some minutes at the 5? Who starts at PF? Does Saric play more wing for us?

At the wings - Wiggins, Okogie, Covington, maybe Saric: who starts?
If Thibs wants to make it to the playoffs he'd be best served using a short rotation of:
C: KAT
PF: Saric
SF: Covington
SG: Wiggins
PG: D.Rose
BENCH:
Teague
Taj
 

Dannnnnnnnnn

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KAT and Markkanen would have been tasty.

If Thibs doesn't want to get fired he will start Saric at the 4 and resemble what a modern offense looks like. Gibson and Dieng will scrap for back up minutes.
Wholeheartedly agree.

The frustrating part for me is that I think our roster is actually looking pretty good at the moment, but I just have no faith in it with Thibs at the helm. I look at the roster and see Wiggins being more involved in the offence again, KAT being happier but also continuing his improved defence, a solid ~10-man rotation and a collection of guys that can hit the 3 ball when given the chance. I see Cov taking some defensive burden off Wig while providing a bail out option from deep too, and Saric providing both offence and defence to a pretty decent extent. I see a renewed Rose leading the bench and giving us scoring punch, Okogie bringing the hustle and disrupting bench wings, Tolliver making the most of his minutes and Gibson doing what he does best off the bench. I see less minutes for the whole roster and as a result more consistent production from them.

But then I think about Thibs and I think about the same starting unit with Cov in for Butler, a 7 or 8 man rotation all season long, stagnant and outdated offence and a defensive system that just doesn't work. And then I see more car crash moves for the roster to save his job.

I just can't get excited for it anymore, and it ******* kills me.
 

Dannnnnnnnnn

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  • Tom Thibodeau sold Timberwolves‘ owner Glen Taylor on passing on the initial offer from the Heat centered around Josh Richardson because he believed that Pat Riley would come back with a better offer down the road (the Heat never returned with Richardson on the table in subsequent trade talks).
  • Taylor considered firing Thibodeau and GM Scott Layden this past summer before the Butler saga broke out and continues to think about the possibility of replacing both of them.
  • According to Woj, the Timberwolvesdesperately tried to find other trade partners throughout the past week, including reaching out to the Pelicansand Wizards, to no avail. However, New Orleans wouldn’t offer Jrue Holidayand Washington wouldn’t offer Bradley Beal, unsurprisingly.
  • The Sixers initially offered the Timberwolves their choice of Robert Covington and Dario Saric in an offer for Butler before eventually agreeing to include both players.
  • The Sixers believe they are operating out of a position of leverage when it comes to dealings with Butler. According to Woj, there are league executives that understand that Butler must be on his best behavior in order to get the full five-year max contract he desires this summer.
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/11/wojs-latest-butler-timberwolves-thibodeau.html
 

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FWIW, I think this is a really good deal for Minny. Towns should become one of the best scoring bigs in league history, but that wasn't going to happen with Butler.

Saric, Wiggins and Covington are all switchy defenders who can stop and create turnovers. I think Saric has a lot of playmaking ability which he didn't get a chance to show with Simmons being so ball dominant.

I don't think this good stuff will happen with Thibs though.
 

Shiv

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FWIW, I think this is a really good deal for Minny. Towns should become one of the best scoring bigs in league history, but that wasn't going to happen with Butler.

Saric, Wiggins and Covington are all switchy defenders who can stop and create turnovers. I think Saric has a lot of playmaking ability which he didn't get a chance to show with Simmons being so ball dominant.

I don't think this good stuff will happen with Thibs though.
Defs keen to see Saric being more ball dominant and having some playmaking duties. That was one area in Philly which was under utilised
 

power09

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Just watched the game against New Orleans and I can happily say that Wolves basketball is actually fun to watch again!

Covington has just slotted in perfectly, his shooting and defensive fight make the team look a lot harder to play against.

Would have to be one of the best games I have ever seen Towns play, was aggressive against Davis from the get go and dominated the boards.

His clutch block on AD when he already had 5 fouls was a sight for sore eyes, I have no idea how just having Butler around could effect Towns so dramatically but who cares, Im just happy with what im seeing now.
 

coniglio_number1

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Talk about making the most out of the butler saga. Saric and RoCo have fitted in seamlessly. Would love to see KBD make an impact as his G league performance was good. Okogie is progressing faster than I could’ve imagined!

D.Rose is becoming young D.Rose again
 

Dannnnnnnnnn

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I really should have seen Thibs benching Tolliver and Okogie coming. He is just completely incapable of balancing a rotation.
 

Knightmare

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Anyone still feeling like Rose's performances are outliers?

I said it in the playoffs last year. While this isn't MVP Rose, this D.Rose should start and is still very valuable and a seriously good baller.
 

dibikins

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Anyone still feeling like Rose's performances are outliers?

I said it in the playoffs last year. While this isn't MVP Rose, this D.Rose should start and is still very valuable and a seriously good baller.
Depends on his body. There is no doubt he is better PG than Teague, seems to get KAT more involved too. But not sure if he is capable of playing 30 Min plus consistently. I think leading that bench unit is perfect for him, for where he is in his career.
 
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