Mega Thread Minnesota Timberwolves Thread - we're putting the band back together /Thibs

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Anyone coming around to D.Rose to start yet?
Sure, on the days where he's going 19-31 rather than 4-16 like literally two days ago, or 5-13, or 7-16, or 4-12. All of those in the past ten days.

Don't get me wrong, I'm loving Rose on this team. There is no way in hell he's earned a starting spot on merit yet though.
 

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Knightmare

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Sure, on the days where he's going 19-31 rather than 4-16 like literally two days ago, or 5-13, or 7-16, or 4-12. All of those in the past ten days.

Don't get me wrong, I'm loving Rose on this team. There is no way in hell he's earned a starting spot on merit yet though.
It's all about letting him go into attack mode. Tell him he has the keys to the offence and tell him to score the basketball and that's what he does. Let him do that and he can average an efficient 20ppg+ in a starting role.

Thibs is the only coach who gets this with Rose.

Rose is a naturally passive guy. He wants to be a pass first point guard and get everyone touches. He became MVP and developed into that kind of player because he was told - we don't have anyone to score. You need to be aggressive and be the primary scorer.

It's no coincidence he did it without Butler in the lineup.

Butler is the number one option when he is on the floor, but when he's not. Rose needs to be told to attack and go get his. That's when he plays great basketball.

This Rose isn't MVP Rose. But it's 22.5 points per 36min Rose which is still exceptional.
 
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It's all about letting him go into attack mode. Tell him he has the keys to the offence and tell him to score the basketball and that's what he does. Let him do that and he can average an efficient 20ppg+ in a starting role.

Thibs is the only coach who gets this with Rose.

Rose is a naturally passive guy. He wants to be a pass first point guard and get everyone touches. He became MVP and developed into that kind of player because he was told - we don't have anyone to score. You need to be aggressive and be the primary scorer.

It's no coincidence he did it without Butler in the lineup.

Butler is the number one option when he is on the floor, but when he's not. Rose needs to be told to attack and go get his. That's when he plays great basketball.

This Rose isn't MVP Rose. But it's 22.5 points per 36min Rose which is still exceptional.
I understand all this but the thing is, from watching him, he does play like that all the time on this team. It's a clear message to him to be aggressive, attack, and take his shots. Yes, to a lesser extent when Jimmy's on the floor, but he's still playing like that. Against LA he had 16 shots in 29 minutes despite shooting 25% - almost as many as KAT and Jimmy (both of whom shot the ball better). 13 shots in 26 against Milwaukee, 16 in 29 vs Toronto, 12 in 26 vs Indiana, 21 in 32 vs Dallas, so on and so forth. If these aren't team-highs they're close to it.

He has been in attack mode all season. The shots just haven't fallen efficiently enough.

Maybe this is the beginning of a sharp uptick. I hope it is. He's great to watch and terrific for the team when he plays like this. But there is absolutely no way he has demonstrated the ability to out-perform Teague consistently yet.
 

Knightmare

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I understand all this but the thing is, from watching him, he does play like that all the time on this team. It's a clear message to him to be aggressive, attack, and take his shots. Yes, to a lesser extent when Jimmy's on the floor, but he's still playing like that. Against LA he had 16 shots in 29 minutes despite shooting 25% - almost as many as KAT and Jimmy (both of whom shot the ball better). 13 shots in 26 against Milwaukee, 16 in 29 vs Toronto, 12 in 26 vs Indiana, 21 in 32 vs Dallas, so on and so forth. If these aren't team-highs they're close to it.

He has been in attack mode all season. The shots just haven't fallen efficiently enough.

Maybe this is the beginning of a sharp uptick. I hope it is. He's great to watch and terrific for the team when he plays like this. But there is absolutely no way he has demonstrated the ability to out-perform Teague consistently yet.
The key is having Rose scoring when Butler isn't on the floor.

Butler and KAT are the two most efficient on offence on that team. You won't get any debate from me on that, but even when they're out there with Rose, Rose needs to stay in attack mode. The result of this is it opens up the floor for Butler, KAT and Wiggins and when the defence collapse on Rose he'll move it and find the open man. And with the minutes staggered anyway so that Rose is out there every time when one or both of Butler and KAT aren't on the court, it lets Rose do his thing more and keeps the pressure on the other team.
 
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The key is having Rose scoring when Butler isn't on the floor.

Butler and KAT are the two most efficient on offence on that team. You won't get any debate from me on that, but even when they're out there with Rose, Rose needs to stay in attack mode. The result of this is it opens up the floor for Butler, KAT and Wiggins and when the defence collapse on Rose he'll move it and find the open man. And with the minutes staggered anyway so that Rose is out there every time when one or both of Butler and KAT aren't on the court, it lets Rose do his thing more and keeps the pressure on the other team.
Some good points made, but I think it highlights a bigger problem that's endemic of the current Wolves: you say that it opens up the floor, but none of Wiggins, Butler or KAT are as efficient at range as they are where Rose likes to end up. In the situation where he passes out we're often looking at a (for us) dodgy shot. The alternatives are Okogie, whose shot isn't there at the moment or maybe ever, or Tolliver/Teague, who can hit it but aren't exactly sharpshooters. It's a problem.
 

Knightmare

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Some good points made, but I think it highlights a bigger problem that's endemic of the current Wolves: you say that it opens up the floor, but none of Wiggins, Butler or KAT are as efficient at range as they are where Rose likes to end up. In the situation where he passes out we're often looking at a (for us) dodgy shot. The alternatives are Okogie, whose shot isn't there at the moment or maybe ever, or Tolliver/Teague, who can hit it but aren't exactly sharpshooters. It's a problem.
It feels like they all just need to find where those openings are and D.Rose needs to learn where those guys will be.

Rose hasn't played that much with the T-Wolves to have all that down.

KAT and Butler I consider underrated from range. KAT is 45% this year and was 42% last year. No other big man at his position is doing that and averaging 1.5 last season and 2.3 makes per game this season. Butler is making 48% though you're looking more realistically at 35%+ from 3 with his mid range game and real strength making him more a scorer, so I'd have him more cutting and finding openings in the mid range in addition to open 3s which he can make.

Wiggins has a good stroke and is someone who should be a 40+% 3pt shooter and should be making 2+ a game. That's something he just needs to continuing working to develop to create that extra spacing.

The T-Wolves if they wanted could probably trade Wiggins for Love and find a way to get Korver or some other veteran established shooters as part of that deal.

A front court of KAT and Love would be incredible for D.Rose and Butler and allow those guys to drive and cut at will with the spacing they'd both provide as bigs who can drag opposition bigs completely out of the equation and make life on offence very easy.
 

gcsunsfc

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Justin Patton had his option declined.
Organisation must have grave concerns about his foot
John Collins, OG Anunoby, Jarrett Allen, Kyle Kuzma, Josh Hart who all went in the latter part of the first round would all be handy.

Looks like they got a good one in Okogie though.
Defense - big tick.
If can get his 3 ball up to 35% would be massive.
What is his passing like? Longer term bit difficult to play him and Wiggins together on the wing if neither of them can pass and neither are particularly good shooters.

Anyone coming around to D.Rose to start yet?

The key with Rose has always been - if you give him the keys to the offence, give him his minutes and tell him to go into attack mode - he can start and win you games.

I'd start both Rose or Butler and have one or the other on the court at all times as that primary option.

If KAT and Wiggins can accept 3rd and 4th option roles and put greater focus on the defensive end then I'm not sure other than Golden State who is better.
D Rose has played well no doubt. but seriously!
52% true shooting Rose..his assist % is up this year - making plays but he is not a better offensive option than KAT. (64% true shooting last year, 58% so far this year)

Also assume you just talking about the Western conference because Bucks wrecking teams. 6th best offence, 2nd best defence.
 
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How is everyone feeling with Bjelica vs Tolliver?

Belly is the better player at this stage of their careers, but Tolliver has shown a better ability to make the most of limited minutes. I guess it depends how you look at it: I think Bjelica deserved more minutes, so I still prefer him. Hard to deny that Tolliver has made more of his time on court though, I think.
 

Knightmare

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D Rose has played well no doubt. but seriously!
52% true shooting Rose..his assist % is up this year - making plays but he is not a better offensive option than KAT. (64% true shooting last year, 58% so far this year)

Also assume you just talking about the Western conference because Bucks wrecking teams. 6th best offence, 2nd best defence.
I made the comment in my previous post that KAT is better on offence. His shooting is the best of any big in the NBA from range and he's highly efficient on that end.

D.Rose being used in attack mode helps those KAT percentages and gives him more open looks.

KAT with D.Rose in attack mode, even looking unsettled and disinterested to start the season with Butler back has improved his 3pt % 3% and is making 0.8 more per game. Making KAT more efficient and making D.Rose a threat in addition to still having Butler and having Wiggins who is another highly able scorer. I see that as the way to be hardest to beat.

How is everyone feeling with Bjelica vs Tolliver?

Belly is the better player at this stage of their careers, but Tolliver has shown a better ability to make the most of limited minutes. I guess it depends how you look at it: I think Bjelica deserved more minutes, so I still prefer him. Hard to deny that Tolliver has made more of his time on court though, I think.
Bjelica is better. More complete player and much more of a threat on offence, though Tolliver can play a role as needed and is one worth keeping around.
 

gcsunsfc

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I made the comment in my previous post that KAT is better on offence. His shooting is the best of any big in the NBA from range and he's highly efficient on that end.

D.Rose being used in attack mode helps those KAT percentages and gives him more open looks.

KAT with D.Rose in attack mode, even looking unsettled and disinterested to start the season with Butler back has improved his 3pt % 3% and is making 0.8 more per game. Making KAT more efficient and making D.Rose a threat in addition to still having Butler and having Wiggins who is another highly able scorer. I see that as the way to be hardest to beat.



Bjelica is better. More complete player and much more of a threat on offence, though Tolliver can play a role as needed and is one worth keeping around.
KAT was far more efficient last year when rose had a minimal role. Obviously a number of factors for this.

But yeah, when rose is playing well KAT will be better as his man will have half his mind on help defence.

If rose is still shooting 45%, 35% from 3 and getting to the line 5 times a game at the all star break I’ll be pleasantly surprised. Wolves are my second team behind Milwaukee so I watch most games.
My feeling he’ll be back to about 42% from field, 30% from 3 and 3 fta per game.
 

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Knightmare

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KAT was far more efficient last year when rose had a minimal role. Obviously a number of factors for this.

But yeah, when rose is playing well KAT will be better as his man will have half his mind on help defence.

If rose is still shooting 45%, 35% from 3 and getting to the line 5 times a game at the all star break I’ll be pleasantly surprised. Wolves are my second team behind Milwaukee so I watch most games.
My feeling he’ll be back to about 42% from field, 30% from 3 and 3 fta per game.
Wolves are probably my third team, and only because Thibs is coaching and all the ex-Bulls are there with him, but the most interesting to watch this year, even more so than the Lakers.
 

gcsunsfc

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Wolves are probably my third team, and only because Thibs is coaching and all the ex-Bulls are there with him, but the most interesting to watch this year, even more so than the Lakers.
I think KAT is the big enabler to rose remaining somewhat effective. Provides spacing to give him room to drive - what he does best.
 

Upgrayedd

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How is everyone feeling with Bjelica vs Tolliver?

Belly is the better player at this stage of their careers, but Tolliver has shown a better ability to make the most of limited minutes. I guess it depends how you look at it: I think Bjelica deserved more minutes, so I still prefer him. Hard to deny that Tolliver has made more of his time on court though, I think.
Still pissed we pulled his qualifying offer.
 

Knightmare

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I think KAT is the big enabler to rose remaining somewhat effective. Provides spacing to give him room to drive - what he does best.
Floor spacing helps any guy who likes driving.

It's like with LeBron, you want floor spacing so that he can drive and kick, and KAT being probably the best three point shooting centre in the game, that helps tremendously.
 

Upgrayedd

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Was bad against GS


Mot because he missed shots. Just the shots he took. You can clearly see he doesnt pass to towns on any roll. Its toxic. Why does Thibs keep tryig to mske it work
 

Knightmare

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Can we **** Jimmy off already.
Houston's x4 first round pick offer was a good one, particularly if unprotected or very limited protection (think top 3 protection at most). Even if it's just Brandon Knight and Marquese Chriss I'd do it for that many first round picks as I don't see Houston remaining a top seed out West. It needs to be that Boston - Brooklyn style deal to have me convinced. Any more protection than that it would be a no deal from me and I'd offer Jimmy the max and let him know pronto that he is appreciated, as with Jimmy, Minnesota could make the Western Conference finals if that whole group buys in and KAT and Wiggins stop playing so soft on defence.

Thibs is about bringing in established players as he wants to make the playoffs, knowing his job as coach is on the line and dependent on that, and knowing picks won't help him keep his job. There just won't be any comparable standard players available to trade for.

That's the problem when a coach is making trading decisions for the franchise.

I don't like anything the Heat can offer unless they cough up x3 or x4 first round picks (unprotected). None of their players/no combination of their players would interest me.
 

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Thibodeu has f***** this team.. there was nothing wrong with 20 year old Towns Wiggins and Lavine at the time, they weren’t going to be contending for a few years so bringing in an established all star was pointless. I liked the trade at the time but that was more to do with the excitement of having a ready made star come in. Thinking about it deeper you realise it was 100% the wrong move.

Everything’s easier in hindsight of course but all that was needed was patience and keeping that core together. Thibs bringing in all his Bulls mates is what really frustrates me. The cheap role players aren’t too bad (especially Rose since he’s come on), but overpaying for Gibson and Butler wasn’t the smartest idea. Glen Taylor needs to sack Thibs and sell the team because we are wasting the career of a generational big man and a quality scorer who has gone backwards since that trade.
 
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Thankyou mother of all Gods. Now to **** Thibs off. What's Saric D like?

Towns/Dieng
Saric/Gibson
Covington/Deng
Wiggins/Okogie
Teague/Rose

Certainly better spacing and a more rounded team. If only Thibs would run some plays for Towns. He should be shooting no fewer then 20 shots a night.
 

Knightmare

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A shocking trade and missed opportunity for Minnesota.

Those Houston x4 first rounders would have been a much better option.

For Thibs knowing his coaching position is on the line was always going to go for players rather than picks, as he won't survive if the T-Wolves miss the playoffs irrespective of how many picks gained in that trade.

It's just why you have your coach in charge of trades.
 
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