Mega Thread Miscellaneous Freo Discussion thread

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Dockeroo

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If Fremantle had drafted Chris Judd with pick 1 instead of trading it in 2001, do people think he would have stayed in WA till 2007 like he did with the Eagles or asked for a trade home sooner?
 

Snuffaluphagus

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If Fremantle had drafted Chris Judd with pick 1 instead of trading it in 2001, do people think he would have stayed in WA till 2007 like he did with the Eagles or asked for a trade home sooner?
Given the horrendous drug abuse and culture behind the scene's back then, would he have stayed even longer than 2007 with us?
 

gaskin

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If Fremantle had drafted Chris Judd with pick 1 instead of trading it in 2001, do people think he would have stayed in WA till 2007 like he did with the Eagles or asked for a trade home sooner?
I think he would have stayed. The culture at WC is supposedly the major factor in him leaving and we didn't have that kind of problem. It also would have coincided with the 2004-2006 period where we were actually good and to be honest, I fully believe we would have beaten the Eagles in the GF in 2006 if we didn't go out to Sydney in the prelim.
 

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masai

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I think he would have stayed. The culture at WC is supposedly the major factor in him leaving and we didn't have that kind of problem. It also would have coincided with the 2004-2006 period where we were actually good and to be honest, I fully believe we would have beaten the Eagles in the GF in 2006 if we didn't go out to Sydney in the prelim.
We would have match him up with a good Croatian girl, not a ponced up twig.
 

Dockeroo

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A long debated myth of early freo dockers was raised in footy classified by Matthew Lloyd tonight.
In the final 5 segment, they asked him “how did you get to Essendon in 1994?”
Lloyd:
“I was 16 at the time. Fremantle were entering the Comp the next year and were allowed to take mature players from clubs, who received a selection of the best 16 yo players as compensation in return if they lost a player to Fremantle.
The club did a deal with the dockers where freo agreed not to recruit a player from a club that finished below Essendon, effectively giving the bombers the opportunity to recruit me.
They also threw in pick 4 in the 1994 draft which we used to recruit Scott Lucas.”

It’s often wrongly said freo could have recruited Lloyd. In reality he was never available to us. Scott Lucas however, was. 😥
 

ImperialPurple

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A long debated myth of early freo dockers was raised in footy classified by Matthew Lloyd tonight.
In the final 5 segment, they asked him “how did you get to Essendon in 1994?”
Lloyd:
“I was 16 at the time. Fremantle were entering the Comp the next year and were allowed to take mature players from clubs, who received a selection of the best 16 yo players as compensation in return if they lost a player to Fremantle.
The club did a deal with the dockers where freo agreed not to recruit a player from a club that finished below Essendon, effectively giving the bombers the opportunity to recruit me.
They also threw in pick 4 in the 1994 draft which we used to recruit Scott Lucas.”

It’s often wrongly said freo could have recruited Lloyd. In reality he was never available to us. Scott Lucas however, was. 😥
Is there anyone who can explain to me what was the enormous benefit this clearly must have given us, what exactly we owed Essendon before we had even played a single game, and why it was we started screwing ourselves before we allowed otherclubs to start doing it to us??
 

ThePope

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*Tony Delaney or Todd Ridley.

Essendon really rated Delaney. That's who they really didn't want to lose - and it seemed that he and Ridley didn't really want to come, so we had to do a deal (see this article from 1994). And Freo didn't fully comprehend the value of what they were giving up - that was mentioned in that Freo history book from a few years ago. And we really wanted them.

And Neesham definitely didn't want to "do a GWS" and recruit a team of the best 18 year olds and wait for 5 years. His philosophy was to let players play in the WAFL for 4 years and then play AFL when they are ready. He didn't rate the draft at all.

And the other mob were flying, had won 1 flag, played in 2 GFs in the previous 3 years and would win the 94 flag. The WA media wouldn't have let us survive if we won 3 games in each of the first few years (like GWS). And we did OK - at first, but no climb.

Wins in 1st 5 years
Freo: 8, 7, 10, 7, 5
GC: 3, 3, 8, 10, 4.5 (Ablett inj)
GWS: 2, 1, 6, 11, 16 (lost PF by 6 pts)
 

Dockeroo

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*Tony Delaney or Todd Ridley.

Essendon really rated Delaney. That's who they really didn't want to lose - and it seemed that he and Ridley didn't really want to come, so we had to do a deal (see this article from 1994). And Freo didn't fully comprehend the value of what they were giving up - that was mentioned in that Freo history book from a few years ago. And we really wanted them.

And Neesham definitely didn't want to "do a GWS" and recruit a team of the best 18 year olds and wait for 5 years. His philosophy was to let players play in the WAFL for 4 years and then play AFL when they are ready. He didn't rate the draft at all.

And the other mob were flying, had won 1 flag, played in 2 GFs in the previous 3 years and would win the 94 flag. The WA media wouldn't have let us survive if we won 3 games in each of the first few years (like GWS). And we did OK - at first, but no climb.

Wins in 1st 5 years
Freo: 8, 7, 10, 7, 5
GC: 3, 3, 8, 10, 4.5 (Ablett inj)
GWS: 2, 1, 6, 11, 16 (lost PF by 6 pts)
Isn’t it true then that Clive was not actually the true no 1 pick in the 1995 draft? Lloyd should have gone ahead of him if he had stayed in the draft pool?
 

Dockeroo

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There's quite an age difference between them.

Clive is 46, Lloyd is 42
So we took a 21 yo mature ager with the Number 1 pick. Sounds a very Dockery thing to do alright. Imagine that happening nowadays - North talking some VFL or WAFL 21 year old at pick 1 this year instead of Daicos/Horne/Sonsie etc, their fans would burn Arden st to the ground! Who was the first club to really realise the value of draft picks. Geelong? Hawks maybe
 

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Wilksyy

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Isn’t it true then that Clive was not actually the true no 1 pick in the 1995 draft? Lloyd should have gone ahead of him if he had stayed in the draft pool?
There’s a pretty cool podcast called “Bleeding Purple” that somewhat goes into this. Listen to the first two episodes with Neesham and Ross Kelly
 

Bigger

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Of all the sh*t things and limitations placed on us at inception, that one burns the most. That compensation clubs got, of accessing the best 16-year-olds ahead of the draft, if they gave us players, effectively meant the AFL were denying us access to future picks.

When they were looking to enter the comp, Port Adelaide looked at how we were set up and basically said to the AFL, "We'll do the exact opposite of that, thanks."

And don't even talk to me about the hilarious leg-ups GCS and GWS got. We were stupid to agree to the monstrous sh*t sandwich plonked in front of us, but I guess we were hungry.
 

Nickos66

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Didn't Neesham skip on multiple players we had concessions to pick up for free - not only to go and use 1st round draft picks on... and then delist before the season started? it happened at least once (I forget who it was though).
 

Wilksyy

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Didn't Neesham skip on multiple players we had concessions to pick up for free - not only to go and use 1st round draft picks on... and then delist before the season started? it happened at least once (I forget who it was though).
Someone Edwards at pick 7. Only top 10 pick that didn’t play an AFL game, I think.

Edit - Here’s a better run down :

Next they selected Ben Edwards, a slightly built utility from Claremont. As he was a Western Australian, the Dockers could have taken Edwards before the draft. For reasons known only to them (former coach Gerard Neesham declined to tell us), they instead wasted their prized pick seven. Edwards has the rare distinction of being one of the few AFL draftees to be delisted by their club before the new season had even begun. We rate it as the worst draft selection made by any club in history. To cap things off, Fremantle took 25-year-old two-club veteran Brad Rowe at pick 13, and twice-delisted 23-year-old ruckman Jay Burton at pick 23. Rowe and Burton played a combined eight games in 1996 before being delisted at the end of the year. ‘Anyone can pick over the bones of what we did right or wrong,’ said Neesham. ‘I do know a lot of other clubs back then selected blokes who totally missed as well.’
 
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gungho

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Someone Edwards at pick 7. Only top 10 pick that didn’t play an AFL game, I think.

Edit - Here’s a better run down :
Interesting how Neesham - and whoever else were the power brokers at the time - did the worst thing possible for freo's future success. They traded away picks to keep them competitive in the first few years, and in doing so ensured they were basically devoid of any top end talent in 3 - 10 years time.
It was the worst move imaginable, but I guess all decisions are easier with hindsight.
 

Alfonz

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I think he would have stayed. The culture at WC is supposedly the major factor in him leaving and we didn't have that kind of problem. It also would have coincided with the 2004-2006 period where we were actually good and to be honest, I fully believe we would have beaten the Eagles in the GF in 2006 if we didn't go out to Sydney in the prelim.
I state this whenever I see such comments ... but WC culture had very little to do with Judd leaving. Kerr (one of the worst offenders) was one of his closest teammates. He simply left to go home and the money followed. Just like he said. Simple as that. A small factor was he didn't like the management of his groin injury (but this mostly flared after he had essentially committed to leaving, was just a nail in the coffin for staying). I had a rock solid contact (yeah, yeah, I know, but this was legit) who told me he was going to Carlton long before anyone in the media even confirmed he was leaving (and even then all the talk was Collingwood).
 

ThePope

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Someone Edwards at pick 7. Only top 10 pick that didn’t play an AFL game, I think.
Nope. Quite a few before him, and Brandon Hill #10 1998 to the other mob and Luke Molan #9 2001 to Melbourne also never played.

Edit - Here’s a better run down :
Next they selected Ben Edwards, a slightly built utility from Claremont. As he was a Western Australian, the Dockers could have taken Edwards before the draft. For reasons known only to them (former coach Gerard Neesham declined to tell us), they instead wasted their prized pick seven. Edwards has the rare distinction of being one of the few AFL draftees to be delisted by their club before the new season had even begun. We rate it as the worst draft selection made by any club in history. To cap things off, Fremantle took 25-year-old two-club veteran Brad Rowe at pick 13, and twice-delisted 23-year-old ruckman Jay Burton at pick 23. Rowe and Burton played a combined eight games in 1996 before being delisted at the end of the year. ‘Anyone can pick over the bones of what we did right or wrong,’ said Neesham. ‘I do know a lot of other clubs back then selected blokes who totally missed as well.’
This completely misses the point. We had a fixed list size. We had to make 3 draft picks. We had zone/priority access to 10 players. So we picked the 10 players Neesham wanted most from the WAFL (DParker, Clement, Koops, Harding, Mitchell, Feddema, T Carroll, Whitelaw, MBrown & MClark), drafted Clive with pick 1, re-drafted 2 players that we had to drop, and then the 11th best player from our zone was picked in the national draft at #7 - Edwards. We traded Hynes for some unknown midget forward named Matera (similar to how GC traded Mzungu and Faulks to us) and got Tony Godden from the West Coast as an uncontracted player, which under the "Lloyd steal from the next year's draft" rule, WC got Wirrpanda.

I'll say it again slowly. NEESHAM DID NOT THINK THAT 18 YEAR OLDS SHOULD BE DRAFTED. He wanted mature 22-24 year olds (hence the Clive pick).

Interesting how Neesham - and whoever else were the power brokers at the time - did the worst thing possible for freo's future success. They traded away picks to keep them competitive in the first few years, and in doing so ensured they were basically devoid of any top end talent in 3 - 10 years time.
It was the worst move imaginable, but I guess all decisions are easier with hindsight.
No one had built a team from kids before. The Eagles came in with a bunch of experienced guys. The Baby Bombers from 93 were seen as an anomoly, not a template. Neesham wasn't going to go down that path. Even when Port came in, they only had 3 teenagers play more than 3 games in 1997 - Peter Burgoyne, Nathan Eagleton and Bowen Lockwood. Only 3 more in 98 too, Tredrea, Stevens and Dew!

One more thing. In that 1995 draft, Edwards was actually the only teenager drafted to that point! Picks 1-6 were all over 20! First player from the TAC Cup was Presti at #10! Crazy compared to what we expect now.

It just wasn't a thing. Now, after seeing GWS almost create a dynasty, it seems like the obvious thing to do. Getting in good 23-25 year olds was seen as the BEST thing possible for both Freo's future success - and their immediate success. Which, as I said above, was important. WA footy could not have supported us if we were completely un-competitive for 4-5 years. And Neesham was convinced that his game plan, with senior players, would work better in the long run than just having a bunch of kids. After all, it had worked at Claremont. Very well.
 

Wilksyy

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Thanks for clarifying that Pope. I got that quote from a book called “Footballistics” and I guess they viewed our drafting history with todays template.
 
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gaskin

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Things that please me: That win against Adelaide put us above Carlton and St Kilda on the ladder.


Things that could please me even more: We play North next week while Carlton have Brisbane and Saints have Port. We could realistically be 2 games ahead of both this time next week.


Things that could very well make me feel funny in my pants: If Eagles somehow lose to Geelong, we could also jump them, be in the 8, and go into the Derby ahead of them on the ladder.
 

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