Research Missing DOD or DOB for League players (AFL)

[GreyCrow]

William "Bill" Joseph O'Brien - StK 1910-11 (B: 27/9/1897) Orig Club: Williamstown . WW2 Army

He played when he was 13?

Can we clarify dob

Harry beat me well done sir

 

[35Daicos]

SIXTEENTH BATCH OF MISSING DOD

Arthur "Artie" Leo McSpeerin - Carl 1899, Melb 1903 (b:26/02/1880) Orig club: Phoenix

Wikipedia most likely has the answer for this one:- https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Artie_McSpeerin

Date of death 1 May 1935 (aged 55)
Place of death Wellington, New Zealand

He died in Wellington, New Zealand after an accident with a fire engine.[3]

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19350501.2.4

Supermercado :- http://demonwiki.org/Artie+McSpeerin

 

[Harry Hook]

Just a warning. I've had a look at O'Hagan before, it's a little difficult.

 

[GreyCrow]

Wikipedia most likely has the answer for this one:- https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Artie_McSpeerin

Date of death 1 May 1935 (aged 55)
Place of death Wellington, New Zealand

He died in Wellington, New Zealand after an accident with a fire engine.[3]

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19350501.2.4

Cert number included (from NZ BDM )
1935/16777 McSpeerin Arthur Leo 54Y

Good get

 

[35Daicos]

Cert number included (from NZ BDM )
1935/16777 McSpeerin Arthur Leo 54Y

Good get

Wikipedia says "enlisted to serve in World War I but the war ended before he saw active duty." It looks like it was actually the NZ army that he joined.

 

[35Daicos]

William "Bill" Joseph O'Brien - StK 1910-11 (B: 27/9/1897) Orig Club: Williamstown . WW2 Army

He played when he was 13?

Can we clarify dob

Harry beat me well done sir

DoB is 27/9/1887

I think this is him:-
Record information
Event Birth
Event registration number 28019
Registration year 1887

Personal information
Family name OBRIEN
Given names William Joseph
Sex Unknown
Father's name Patrick
Mother's name Ellen (Donovan)
Place of birth ELMH

O'BRIEN WILLIAM JOSEPH : Service Number - N382845 : Date of birth - 27 Sep 1887 : Place of birth - ELMHURST VIC : Place of enlistment - ARIAH PARK NSW : Next of Kin - O'BRIEN ADA

 

[rbartlett]

So O'Brien is supposed to be 14 or 15 when he played in 1910-1911?

That is a red flag right there.

No my mistake when typing it in. Its 1887.

 

[Harry Hook]

I started looking at O'Hagan.

He played one game in 1897 and Trove details are non existent.

Can anyone confirm that a player named O'Hagan played in that one game by looking at a contemporary record of the teams.

 

[35Daicos]

SIXTEENTH BATCH OF MISSING DOD

Alfred "Alf" Carl Frank Neeson - Fitz 1935-36, Haw 1936-38 (B: 15/6/1914) Orig Club: Canberra

Event Birth
Event registration number 11795
Registration year 1914

Personal information
Family name NEESON
Given names Alfd Carl Frank
Sex Unknown
Father's name Alfd Frank
Mother's name Ethel Bessie (Woess)
Place of birth CWOOD

He joined the Army in early 1935 (and was discharged later that year):-
Neeson, Alfred; Army Number - 325129; Date of birth - 05 June 1914

You can see that there's a small discrepancy with his DoB. He's clearly written 5/6/1914, whereas the AFL records have 15/6/1914, so worth looking into.

He was playing in the WAFL in 1948 so perhaps he stayed in WA?

 

[GreyCrow]

I started looking at O'Hagan.

He played one game in 1897 and Trove details are non existent.

Can anyone confirm that a player named O'Hagan played in that one game by looking at a contemporary record of the teams.

A Michael Joseph o'Hagan passed his studies in Pharmacy (1894). He was a witness in a court case (1908) and it stated he was from Nathalia. http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article144514326

I went out but was going to look into advertisements and see if he started his own store. I have not looked for games yet

 

[rbartlett]

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/70021650I'll throw in some missing Richmond VFA players/ officials Date of Birth/Date of Death queries

John "Jack" J. Stewart (died circa 1944-1945 as per Annual Report). Nickname 'Bosco'. Played 1885-93,95 for Richmond VFA. Life member of Richmond in 1895 Date of birth ? Exact date of death? He had a son called Len, who played for Richmond Cricket Club.

Further to this... The died circa 1944-45 is taking from when Jack Stewart is listed as deceased in the Richmond's Annual Report table of Life Members.

New information is its quite possible Jack has a brother called William 'Ginger' Stewart - who also played with Richmond at the same time, 1887-93,95,97. Both William and Jack had come from Sandridge Star (Pt Melb Juniors)

Now, there was a Richmond Committeeman called Dave Stewart from 1924-26. I dont know if he is connected. He also went on to write for The Sporting Globe, and he had a son also called Len who played cricket for Richmond and who was a POW of war. Len then had a son called Peter Donald Stewart who tried out with Richmond in 1953. They all could be unrelated to the Jack "Bosco" Stewart DOB/DOD I'm trying to track down.

 

[Harry Hook]

Further to this... The died circa 1944-45 is taking from when Jack Stewart is listed as deceased in the Richmond's Annual Report table of Life Members.

New information is its quite possible Jack has a brother called William 'Ginger' Stewart - who also played with Richmond at the same time, 1887-93,95,97. Both William and Jack had come from Sandridge Star (Pt Melb Juniors)

Now, there was a Richmond Committeeman called Dave Stewart from 1924-26. I dont know if he is connected. He also went on to write for The Sporting Globe, and he had a son also called Len who played cricket for Richmond and who was a POW of war. Len then had a son called Peter Donald Stewart who tried out with Richmond in 1953. They all could be unrelated to the Jack "Bosco" Stewart DOB/DOD I'm trying to track down.

I don't know how this affects your enquiries but it seems that Dave Stewart was famously known as Bosco.

cf the Kerang New Times 18 February 1913

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article222472914

This article sets out Len who played cricket for Richmond was the son of the famous Bosco Stewart, ie Dave Stewart.

Bosco was also spelt Boscoe in reports.

 

[Harry Hook]

Further to this... The died circa 1944-45 is taking from when Jack Stewart is listed as deceased in the Richmond's Annual Report table of Life Members.

New information is its quite possible Jack has a brother called William 'Ginger' Stewart - who also played with Richmond at the same time, 1887-93,95,97. Both William and Jack had come from Sandridge Star (Pt Melb Juniors)

Now, there was a Richmond Committeeman called Dave Stewart from 1924-26. I dont know if he is connected. He also went on to write for The Sporting Globe, and he had a son also called Len who played cricket for Richmond and who was a POW of war. Len then had a son called Peter Donald Stewart who tried out with Richmond in 1953. They all could be unrelated to the Jack "Bosco" Stewart DOB/DOD I'm trying to track down.

You might also remember the Richmond photo identification thread where I posted this:

"Here's a very indistinct photo of the training ground of Richmond with players from the age in August 1933

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article204379554

What is important is that on 16 September 1933 the Age identifies this team as the 1892 team and then names the people in the photograph.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-page19052713"

 

[rbartlett]

I don't know how this affects your enquiries but it seems that Dave Stewart was famously known as Bosco.

cf the Kerang New Times 18 February 1913

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article222472914

This article sets out Len who played cricket for Richmond was the son of the famous Bosco Stewart, ie Dave Stewart.

Bosco was also spelt Boscoe in reports.

Devil's advocate. That article never mentions his father is called Dave. It mentions his father was known as famous footballer from 20 years earlier 'Bosco'.
That means circa 1893. There's only two Stewarts who played for Richmond VFA (and they appear in that team photo you posted).
John "Jack" J Stewart, who was known as Bosco (played 1885-1893, 95), then went on to be Assistant Secretary 1895, and Secretary 1896-98,, and was on the committee 1886 - 1896, 1899, 1901 - 1904, 1906 - 1911. He received Life Membership in 1895 or 1897.
And William "Ginger" Stewart.(1887-1893, 95, 97)
There's no record of a Dave Stewart playing for Richmond in VFA.

So atm I am thinking there's John "Jack" J "Bosco" Stewart (dob and dod unknown. Possibly died 1944/45), who had a son - Len Stewart as per the article above.
And that there is a Dave Stewart (as in prev post) who may be unrelated, who ALSO had a son called Len(who played cricket for Richmond), and a grandson called Peter Donald Stewart.

 

[Harry Hook]

Devil's advocate. That article never mentions his father is called Dave. It mentions his father was known as famous footballer from 20 years earlier 'Bosco'.
That means circa 1893. There's only two Stewarts who played for Richmond VFA (and they appear in that team photo you posted).
John "Jack" J Stewart, who was known as Bosco (played 1885-1893, 95), then went on to be Assistant Secretary 1895, and Secretary 1896-98,, and was on the committee 1886 - 1896, 1899, 1901 - 1904, 1906 - 1911. He received Life Membership in 1895 or 1897.
And William "Ginger" Stewart.(1887-1893, 95, 97)
There's no record of a Dave Stewart playing for Richmond in VFA.

So atm I am thinking there's John "Jack" J "Bosco" Stewart (dob and dod unknown. Possibly died 1944/45), who had a son - Len Stewart as per the article above.
And that there is a Dave Stewart (as in prev post) who may be unrelated, who ALSO had a son called Len(who played cricket for Richmond), and a grandson called Peter Donald Stewart.

Do you have the full name and DOB and DOD of Dave Stewart.

It may be that Dave Stewart had passed on by 1951

Sporting Globe 24 March 1951

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article193637783

where it is said "in Memory of Dave Stewart".

with a donation by the Sporting Globe,

 

[GreyCrow]

SIXTEENTH BATCH OF MISSING DOD

William Patrick "Pat" McNamara - Melb 1934-38, Sth 1939-40 (b:10/1/1912) Orig club: St Pats College; East Melb. Died 1983. Son of Bill (Carlton)

I only offer this as a possibility. From Ryersons Index


McNAMARA William Patrick Death notice 11APR1983 Death The Age (Melbourne) 14APR1983
McNAMARA William Patrick Death notice 11APR1983 Death 71 at Canberra

The age is in the right frame and that the notice was in the Age makes me consider a previous resident of Melbourne. Food for thought

Canberra/ACT BDMs are searchable ONLY on request and by an authorised person

 

[35Daicos]

I only offer this as a possibility. From Ryersons Index


McNAMARA William Patrick Death notice 11APR1983 Death The Age (Melbourne) 14APR1983
McNAMARA William Patrick Death notice 11APR1983 Death 71 at Canberra

The age is in the right frame and that the notice was in the Age makes me consider a previous resident of Melbourne. Food for thought

Canberra/ACT BDMs are searchable ONLY on request and by an authorised person

Have you tried the Canberra Times on Trove? It goes up to 1995.

This doesn't have The Age for 14 April, the 11th and 19th are the closest ones available, unfortunately:-

https://news.google.com.au/newspapers?nid=MDQ-9Oe3GGUC&hl=en

 

[GreyCrow]

Have you tried the Canberra Times on Trove? It goes up to 1995.

Well well well Thanks


http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article116378722

Wife named Vera , I believe he married a Mary Veronica Douglas in 1938 , Veronica to Vera I can see. More investigation though

 

[35Daicos]

Well well well Thanks


http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article116378722

Wife named Vera , I believe he married a Mary Veronica Douglas in 1938 , Veronica to Vera I can see. More investigation though

I'd be pretty confident it's him! This is from 1970 but it has him living in Canberra (and coaching football):- http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/131687824

 

[GreyCrow]

I'd be pretty confident it's him! This is from 1970 but it has him living in Canberra (and coaching football):- http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/131687824

Confirmed Mary Veronica is Vera

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article122370041

 

[35Daicos]

Confirmed Mary Veronica is Vera

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article122370041

Great work!!

 

[the croucher]

SIXTEENTH BATCH OF MISSING DOD
<snip>

Michael "Mick" Joseph O'Hagan - StK 1897 (B: 22/1/1878 ) Orig Club: University

Well, simply to have an end date for our searching - his sister Mary Terese died in 1970 aged 90.
Her death notice in The Age lists him as deceased by that time
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=M-FUAAAAIBAJ&sjid=v5ADAAAAIBAJ&pg=7299,2134419

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Well, simply to have an end date for our searching - his sister Mary Terese died in 1970 aged 90.
Her death notice in The Age lists him as deceased by that time
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=M-FUAAAAIBAJ&sjid=v5ADAAAAIBAJ&pg=7299,2134419

Off topic but, scrolling up, was Madge, the wife of respected VFL administrator Like McBrien.

 

[Harry Hook]

Well, simply to have an end date for our searching - his sister Mary Terese died in 1970 aged 90.
Her death notice in The Age lists him as deceased by that time
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=M-FUAAAAIBAJ&sjid=v5ADAAAAIBAJ&pg=7299,2134419

I hate to be pedantic but shouldn't we first establish that a "O'Hagan" played that single game in 1897 and, if so, that Michael O'Hagan was the player who played that game.

As I've mentioned before the saints records for 1897 are diabolical and in the game he is supposed to have played, the Saints got slaughtered by Essendon from memory by 90 points ( some reports say 94) to 3 and the press reports in the Argus etc on Trove are completely dismissive of the game ( Essendon were on top of the league at point in the season by from recollection plenty) and give few, if any, details of the game.

 

[the croucher]

I hate to be pedantic but shouldn't we first establish that a "O'Hagan" played that single game in 1897 and, if so, that Michael O'Hagan was the player who played that game.

As I've mentioned before the saints records for 1897 are diabolical and in the game he is supposed to have played, the Saints got slaughtered by Essendon from memory by 90 points ( some reports say 94) to 3 and the press reports in the Argus etc on Trove are completely dismissive of the game ( Essendon were on top of the league at point in the season by from recollection plenty) and give few, if any, details of the game.

Yes, quite a fair point.
Unfortunately, The Herald on Google News has a large gap in coverage with 1897 being among the years not visible online.

I should hold to my "cautious" approach a bit more solidly !
Back at end of July on the "inaccuracy" thread I too expressed feeling that the whole first generation of VFL records need re-checking.
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...fficial-records.1089761/page-42#post-51608103