Missing DOD or DOB for League players (AFL)

Discussion in 'Footy History' started by rbartlett, Aug 2, 2017.

Put it out there
  1. GreyCrow

    GreyCrow Brownlow Medallist

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    Confirmed

    EventDeath Registration year1935 Personal information Family name OSULLIVAN Given namesJoseph
    Father's nameOSULLIVAN John Mother's nameMargt (Drew) Place of birth ? Place of death HEIDELBERG Age58

    Birth

    Registration year 1877 Personal information Family name SULLIVAN Given names Joseph
    Father's nameJohn Mother's name Margaret (Drew)

    Place of birthC'WOOD

    The Fathers name the only concern but the mothers maiden name clinches it
     
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  2. 35Daicos

    35Daicos Premium Gold

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    http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/203985686

    Joseph O'Sullivan. 10th July 1935. Many years playing member Carlton Football Club.
     
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  3. GreyCrow

    GreyCrow Brownlow Medallist

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    Still alive post 1945 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article70681819

    Maybe his father needs to be in the Inaccuracies Thread? Says he played for Footscray. ( could be an association side)
    http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article70737088

    Divorce granted to Sarah Grace 1935 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article70730659

    Based on the desertion in 1934/1935 I offer this possibility. Based on his parents being born in Scotland could we suppose James/Jim to be a Scottish Piper?
    1934 a footballer http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article201811928

    1934 a piper http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article75990808

    1939 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article46384408

    1963 and still piping

    All this leads to a burial of a James Sutherland in 1980 aged 80. ie born 1900
    SUTHERLAND JAMES 80 years 1980 HELENA VALLEY

    Just presenting an option to chase up
     
  4. GreyCrow

    GreyCrow Brownlow Medallist

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    There are 2 James Williams born in 1887
    James William born to William Liddle Smith and Agnes (Ritchie) there is a subsequent death entry in 1958 to those 2 people

    The other James William Smith (who I assume is ours) was born to John Williams and Mary (Williams) and there is NO corresponding Victorian death entry

    Edit: Added. The above James William Smith born to John and Mary was registered in the Geelong district. Guess he is the one. Just a note, in 1907 he returned to a newly re-formed Marleybone now playing as East Geelong. Another player was Gibney http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article147915749
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
  5. Snidely Whiplash

    Snidely Whiplash Rookie

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    Pretty sure Stan Smith may still be alive. Was a recent invite to past players function. I will check on Monday.

    On SM-G955F using BigFooty.com mobile app

     
  6. rbartlett

    rbartlett All Australian

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    TWENTY-FIRST (and last!) BATCH

    *Lionel Charles Upton - Nth Melb 1948 - dob 3/10/1924 Orig club Brunswick
    Eric Leslie Watson - Fitzroy 1911 - dob 11/9/1893 Orig club Kew WW1 Army
    *Edward "Ted" Matthew Wellington - Nth Melb 1943 - dob: 20/11/1921 Orig club West Footscray POSSIBLE FOUND - see post below
    Tom Wellington - Melb 1912-13 dob: 27/10/1894 Orig club CBC; East Melb
    Edward "Ed" "Titch" White - Fitzroy 1945 - dob: 10/4/1922 Orig club Fitzroy Sub-Districts
    *Albert "Alby" Joseph Williams - NthMelb 1943 - dob 3/8/1916 Orig club Oakleigh WW2 Army
    William "Billy" Francis Williams - StKilda 1907 - dob: 2/5/1888 Orig club Eaglehawk
    William "Bill" Henry Woods - Geelong 1909 - dob: 21/8/1890 Orig Club Ashby. Half Brother of Ike
    Charles William Young - Fitzroy 1937 - dob: 10/10/1918 Orig club North Carlton Died 1969. WW2 Army


    Thanks for everyone's assistance over this thread.
    Once we've looked over this batch, I will send off the final email to Stephen R.
    I will ask him to then collate for me the outstanding DOB (which I think are the original 4 still) , and DOD - and I will then paste them into a single post.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
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  7. GreyCrow

    GreyCrow Brownlow Medallist

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    Strong possibility Lionel is still with us. A notice for a Jean Upton in August 2017 has a Lionel as Husband and still listed as alive. Need to investigate if Jean was his wife.

    Nominal Rolls have this listed as 10/10/1917 not 1918


    Thank you :)
     
  8. GreyCrow

    GreyCrow Brownlow Medallist

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    A possibility for a search , given he hasnt been found (so far) maybe a search in the UK may find him. Based on his wedding and his service he may have gone to England with his bride http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article146719200

    And we do see this from the 1939 Register Links: birthplace of bride and Eric L as second member

    Watson HouseholdMere and Tisbury R.D., Wiltshire, England

    FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) BIRTH YEAR
    Gertrude Watson 1892
    Eric L Watson is also on this record

    Off for a coffee look after if anybody doesnt find him
     
  9. the croucher

    the croucher All Australian

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    When his mother died in early July 1946, Eric is listed as still alive and living in England
    http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/206375706
     
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  10. GreyCrow

    GreyCrow Brownlow Medallist

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    FindMyPast has an entry for an Eric Watson 1892-1971 and 1894-1971 one Wiltshire records and one England Wales record. I will assume they have split the difference between informants. I havent seen a grave record etc
     
  11. the croucher

    the croucher All Australian

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    Excellent. I think we have probably found him, but of course need final confirmation.
    The Ancestry website has UK civil registration death records in which a death of an Eric Watson (DOB 11 Sep 1892)
    is listed in the Salisbury, Wiltshire region for the January to March quarter of 1971.

    Given the player we are after had a DOB of 11 Sep 1893....looks like the 1971 death is almost certainly same person.
     

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  12. GreyCrow

    GreyCrow Brownlow Medallist

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  13. the croucher

    the croucher All Australian

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    Ted Wellington shows up living in Shepparton via electoral rolls dated 1949 to 1980 on Ancestry,
    looks like he was married to Joy Merle (maiden name unknown).
     
  14. the croucher

    the croucher All Australian

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    Thanks to Trove, here is a photo and neat summary of Wellington's athletic achievements as a young man:
    http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/175803800

    Nice tip at the end with reference to him being in the Federal Public Service.
     
  15. WhiteHartLane23

    WhiteHartLane23 Senior List

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    From http://greatershepparton.com.au/region/cemeteries/pine-lodge-cemetery
    Born: 20 November 1921
    Died: 7 June 2004
    Date of Burial: 11 June 2004
    Location: Pine Lodge
    Cemetery: Grevillea Close
    Site Number: 318
     
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  16. WhiteHartLane23

    WhiteHartLane23 Senior List

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    He was admitted as a clerk into the public service and "disappears" from Ancestry records after about 1925...
    I think this explains why - addicted to drink and betting -> jail...
     
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  17. GreyCrow

    GreyCrow Brownlow Medallist

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    Strong possibility he may have changed his name then
     
  18. GreyCrow

    GreyCrow Brownlow Medallist

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  19. GreyCrow

    GreyCrow Brownlow Medallist

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    If its the same and the dates lend an air of credence Tom wasnt having much luck. http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article203421538

    A marriage in 1917 of Thomas ( no middle name) Wellington to Violet Stagoll. In 1926 its alleged she married another man in 1918. The curious thing is the report states ''married to Thomas Wellington , then being alive'' I assume its a legal phrase and offers nothing sinister. Which is confirmed in this article which Thomas himself appears http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article202217006 he is a clerk in Elsternwick

    Violet had many charges of shoplifting etc made against her over the years.
     
  20. rbartlett

    rbartlett All Australian

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    Barb Cullen has cited the death notice/certificate of Johnny MacGregor and confirms he died on May 16 1966, in a small city called... Dunkirk.
    He was listed as a 'corporate director' with Cullen believing he ran a hotel in Dunkirk.[/QUOTE]
     
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  21. GreyCrow

    GreyCrow Brownlow Medallist

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    MyHeritage , which relies more on personal entries, has Jim passing in 1995. 3 different entries say this , but they could all be confirming each other!!

    I havent ( as yet) found any civil confirmation but will keep looking. If anybody knows some Qld members or if any State Library has Qld archives a search of 1995 Obits might find him
     
  22. GreyCrow

    GreyCrow Brownlow Medallist

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    On Edward Page Heffernan I have seen a link to a Bon Voyage to WA http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article70075362 for an Edward Heffernan. Light on details but a possibility. No WA BDM jump out.

    The Kyneton Observer which is near to being added has many mentions of an E Heffernan/R Heffernan as Captain. This is after the above Bon Voyage so maybe 2 different people. As soon as they are added I shall chase them up more. ie the R Heffernan is assumed to be Roger ( an insert)

    Kyneton Court of Petty Sessions. TUESDAY, MARCH 15TH. (Before Messrs Armstrong, Blencowe, Cooney, and Menzies, J’s.F.) DEBT CASES. [coming soon]
    The Kyneton Observer (Vic. : 1856 - 1900) Thursday 17 March 1898 p 1 Article
    ... Bench had to decide was the validity of the receipt for 19s 3d. Boger Heffernan deposed that he clerked ... sundries. He did not produce his cashbook, as it was merely a copy of his bankbook. James Heffernan ... 771 words

    SPORTING NEWS. FOOTBALL .KYNETON V. EAST [?] [coming soon]
    The Kyneton Observer (Vic. : 1856 - 1900) Tuesday 15 August 1899 p 2 Article
    ... match started at about i.i.-,0'cir,t R. Heffernan captained Kyneui,. O'Connell had charge of E ... 487 words
    [​IMG]


    SPORTING NEWS. FOOTBALL. [coming soon]
    The Kyneton Observer (Vic. : 1856 - 1900) Saturday 5 August 1899 p 3 Article
    ... team—E. Heffernan (capt), EEL'bv. Kelt. Crcwther, Grant, O'Connor, B-E-aaa. Eeardon, Semple, J ... . Heffernan, Jtań. AVearr.cn. Thompson (2), Noble, teffiim. Palmer, Sandford (2), Spain, ficfon. Darby ...179 words

    The interesting thing ( for me ) is there is then no mention of football in 1897. Then again I couldnt find a mention for Carlton either but I did for season 1896 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article139731764 Match in October?? http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article139731766

    Though we do see a Heffernan lining up for Kyneton also in 1896 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article240965542

    I think there is still some searching to be done for EP Heffernan but hopefully this doesnt confuse too many
     
  23. 35Daicos

    35Daicos Premium Gold

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    Blueseum has him as being recruited from Fitzroy Juniors in 1894, and playing that year and in 1896:- http://www.blueseum.org/tiki-index.php?page=Ted+Heffernan

    Born in Gisborne in 1869, Edward Page Heffernan joined Carlton’s VFA team from Fitzroy Juniors, and was one of 15 Blues who made up the majority of the side selected for Carlton’s VFL debut against the Maroons at the Brunswick Street Oval on May 8, 1897. A week later, he played his second and last game for Carlton on the eve of his 28th birthday.

    Victorian Football Association
    Games: 23 (May have been more, details incomplete)
    Goals: 4
    Career: 1894 - 1896


    E. Heffernan recruited from Fitzroy Juniors in 1894 and played 6 games that season.
    No record of him playing in the First Twenty in 1895.
    Played 17 games and scored 4 goals in 1896.
    (Origins of Australian Football Vol 4)

    Not all team details were published.

    1895 May
    The Herald, says Heffernan, a follower, returning to the Blues.

    etc.
     
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  24. Snidely Whiplash

    Snidely Whiplash Rookie

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  25. rbartlett

    rbartlett All Australian

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    Hi all
    I've sent the final email to Stephen of all the research that has been found.
    Once he looks after that I will ask him to forward to me the names of the outstanding players still missing DOD
    and I will paste them into a single post that everyone can work from.

    Rhett
     
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