Research Missing DOD or DOB for League players (AFL)

Remove this Banner Ad

Mar 21, 2016
73,868
116,795
Down South Corvus Tristis
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Sturt, White Sox

35Daicos

Premium Platinum
Mar 6, 2011
8,953
11,845
Adelaide
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Collingwood (VFL), Man Utd.
I had thought I had made mention of this somewhere but it doesnt seem so.

I have spent a bit of time looking at this over the time and I have come to the conclusion that it is not the above listed person. Happy that it is indeed William "Bill" Woods but not Henry.

William Henry Woods is born 1890 but in Sth Melbourne. Father unknown Mother Emma ( Woods) . In all my searching I had this concern as to how he got to Geelong. These days its a short trip on the highway but in my mind that didnt happen as often as it does now.

I am also aware my solution has a bit of completism about it. A need to complete the puzzle has led me to this possibility. And I do offer it only as a possibility until checked and reviewed. In saying that it isnt the above then the logical question should then be ' But who''

William Woods born 1890 in Portarlington !! to William and Isabella (Cornell) . Portarlington is a lot closer to Geelong than Sth Melbourne is. So I feel comfortable about that. He marries in 1915 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article130686641 and the notice links him through family members to the 1890.

More of a William Woods and no middle name , yet the name underneath includes an initial at least. Minor point but noted. Injured at football
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article150659807

Does this stop him serving? Note different address. http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article130686607

This is his enlistment, note the name of his NOK Linda his wife noted above https://www.aif.adfa.edu.au/showPerson?pid=331733 and return
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article165750222

The final note in all of this and only posted for the interest of rbartlett is a clearance to Newton in 1928. Note 1 of the names next to William ;)
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article232339195

The above named dies in 1972 as noted by this in Heidelberg

Event registration number 15529 Registration year 1972 Personal information Family name WOODS Given names William

Father's name WOODS William Mother's name Isabella (Cornull) Place of birth Portarlington Place of death Heidelberg Age 82

------

There is also a Henry William born 1889 Ballarat to James and Annie (Scott) marries 1915. http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article130699249 this is another possibility .
A William Woods was cremated at Springvale Cemetery on 6 July 1972. No DOB or age are shown, but could well be your man. The Age online might have a death notice with a bit of luck.
 
Mar 21, 2016
73,868
116,795
Down South Corvus Tristis
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Sturt, White Sox
A William Woods was cremated at Springvale Cemetery on 6 July 1972. No DOB or age are shown, but could well be your man. The Age online might have a death notice with a bit of luck.
I saw one late 71 and thinking it might have carried over but that looks good also
 

Log in to remove this ad.

rbartlett

Club Legend
Jan 5, 2004
1,636
1,918
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Richmond
Just checking on Sth Melbourne 1907 + Richmond 1910 player Jim Lacey. https://tigerlandarchive.org/tiki-index.php?page=Jim+Lacey
Wiki says he died 9 April 1956 at age 68. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Lacey_(footballer)
I don't have Encyl League Footballers - so note sure what they list his full name as. Does someone have that information?

Vic BDM has a James John Lacey dying in 1956 aged 68, (born in Richmond), and a James Francis Lacey dying in 1956 (aged 69) born in Oxley.
So just checking that the correct player and dod correspond.
 

35Daicos

Premium Platinum
Mar 6, 2011
8,953
11,845
Adelaide
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Collingwood (VFL), Man Utd.
Just checking on Sth Melbourne 1907 + Richmond 1910 player Jim Lacey. https://tigerlandarchive.org/tiki-index.php?page=Jim+Lacey
Wiki says he died 9 April 1956 at age 68. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Lacey_(footballer)
I don't have Encyl League Footballers - so note sure what they list his full name as. Does someone have that information?

Vic BDM has a James John Lacey dying in 1956 aged 68, (born in Richmond), and a James Francis Lacey dying in 1956 (aged 69) born in Oxley.
So just checking that the correct player and dod correspond.
The book just has James Lacey.

He's J. Lacey when he goes from Richmond to Prahran and Beverley to South Melbourne (permits).
 
Last edited:

rbartlett

Club Legend
Jan 5, 2004
1,636
1,918
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Richmond
The book just has James Lacey.

He's J. Lacey when he goes from Richmond to Prahran and Beverley to South Melbourne (permits).

Thanks, just checked Richmond AR and Minute Books - they only have J. Lacey
Our records indicate his footy career path is:
1906-07 Leopold
1907 South Melbourne, Games 1, Goals 0 ;
1908 - Unknonwn
1909 Beverley
1910 Richmond , 4 games
1910 Prahran
1911-1915 Beverley
1916 - South Melbourne Districts

I'm checking to make sure that the James Lacey dying in 1956 is the right one, and not the other James Lacey.
Wonder how the AFL came up with those details.
 
Last edited:

35Daicos

Premium Platinum
Mar 6, 2011
8,953
11,845
Adelaide
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Collingwood (VFL), Man Utd.
Thanks, just checked Richmond AR and Minute Books - they only have J. Lacey
Our records indicate his footy career path is:
1906-07 Leopold
1907 South Melbourne, Games 1, Goals 0 ;
1908 - Unknonwn
1909 Beverley
1910 Richmond , 4 games
1910 Prahran
1911-1915 Beverley
1916 - South Melbourne Districts

I'm checking to make sure that the James Lacey dying in 1956 is the right one, and not the other James Lacey.
Wonder how the AFL came up with those details.
This article has a Lacey playing for Beverley in 1908 so it's most likely him. He was named vice-captain for that club in 1909 so was probably there the year before. Yet this one suggests he might have also gone to Port Melbourne in 1908: "but played Lacey, a new man from the Beverly F. C.". I think that's certainly an error, as I have seen Port Melbourne recruited a different Lacey from Footscray. This list of all-time Port Melbourne players has W Lacey playing in 1908, so I think that is the ex-Footscray player.

I haven't found anything which helps clear up the mystery regarding which is the right James Lacey; finding a middle name for the player would obviously be handy!
 
Mar 21, 2016
73,868
116,795
Down South Corvus Tristis
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Sturt, White Sox
I've exhausted avenues I can think of for "Rhoda" - details below for anyone who wants to pick up the threads such as they are.
Family
Parents: Alexander McDonald (1852–27 Dec 1926) m Isabella Lavery (1854–1890)
Edith Melville McDonald (1876–1941)
Robert Ernest McDonald (1878– after 1926)
Elsie Bassett McDonald (1880– before 1926)
Arthur Reginald McDonald (1882–1925)
Norman Douglas McDonald (1884–1917)
Beatrice Florence McDonald (1886–24 Sep 1955) m David John Blake
Bassett Alexandria McDonald (1888–1890)

Both Alexander and Robert were bootmakers by profession according to electoral rolls.
Robert lived in the same street as his father until 1913 electoral roll and then moves away – I have not been able to find any evidence of where he went.

His father’s death notice in Dec 1926 (http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article202195689) indicates Robert was still living at that time. No siblings are mentioned in death notices for Beatrice Florence in 1955 and I haven't found any death notice on Trove for Edith (according to her BDM record she did not marry)

Updated


77 Robert "Rhoda" Ernest McDonald b:29/4/1878 Coll 1897, Carl 1901,Rich(VFA) 1901-07

Finally. I think I have found him and I am confident.

BUT

Always that wrinkle that stops the searcher. But I am still confident. Though again I leave it to others. My evidence is indeed circumstantial and only connected by coincidence and nature. That nature that says most people pre -1990 ;) stayed in their same employment field for life. Stop waffling

Using the above bootmaker I went off on a journey that took me to George and a 1947 death for a George. The same weeks obits found me looking at a Robert McDonald , Presbyterian , drowned at sea. But nothing further. Using he address I finally found him.

But he was 92.

About to head to bed I searched , again, on just Ernest McDonald. Saw the following snippet . http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article203857206

SMEARED WITH KEROSENE. Hands of Two Men Burned.

SYDNEY, Thursday. — In a garage at Waterloo this morning two men were severely burned about the arms.Ernest McDonald, 58 years, of Roseberry, and William Stevens, 59 years, of Paddington, were attending a car, and ,,

Ok 58 takes him to 1877. Look in NSW BDM. Nope no Robert Ernest McDonald. Hmm ok again try Ernest and eliminate the above person.

Richard Ernest McDonald died 1937 , nah cant be him. Oh hang on Parents Alexander and Isabella. Oh boy oh boy . Go to Obit.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article17440001 This notice is placed December 6 1937. I cant find any Family Notice

McDONALD-The Relatives and Friends of the late RICHARD ERNEST McDONALD(Federated Boot Employees' Union) are Invited to attend his
Funeral; lo leave his late residence, Jensen Street. Bankstown West. THIS DAY, at 2 p m.. tor Catholic Cemetery. Rookwood.

The NSW BDM reference

MCDONALD RICHARD ERNEST 26144/1937 ALEXANDER ISABELLA : LIVERPOOL

Thoughts? I admit they are fine threads but the parents name and the employment highly suggest it is the same person. Again its the different name that sticks
 
Oct 22, 2000
1,290
910
Launceston
AFL Club
Geelong
Finally. I think I have found him and I am confident.

BUT

Always that wrinkle that stops the searcher. But I am still confident. Though again I leave it to others. My evidence is indeed circumstantial and only connected by coincidence and nature. That nature that says most people pre -1990 ;) stayed in their same employment field for life. Stop waffling

Using the above bootmaker I went off on a journey that took me to George and a 1947 death for a George. The same weeks obits found me looking at a Robert McDonald , Presbyterian , drowned at sea. But nothing further. Using he address I finally found him.

But he was 92.

About to head to bed I searched , again, on just Ernest McDonald. Saw the following snippet . http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article203857206

SMEARED WITH KEROSENE. Hands of Two Men Burned.

SYDNEY, Thursday. — In a garage at Waterloo this morning two men were severely burned about the arms.Ernest McDonald, 58 years, of Roseberry, and William Stevens, 59 years, of Paddington, were attending a car, and ,,

Ok 58 takes him to 1877. Look in NSW BDM. Nope no Robert Ernest McDonald. Hmm ok again try Ernest and eliminate the above person.

Richard Ernest McDonald died 1937 , nah cant be him. Oh hang on Parents Alexander and Isabella. Oh boy oh boy . Go to Obit.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article17440001 This notice is placed December 6 1937. I cant find any Family Notice

McDONALD-The Relatives and Friends of the late RICHARD ERNEST McDONALD(Federated Boot Employees' Union) are Invited to attend his
Funeral; lo leave his late residence, Jensen Street. Bankstown West. THIS DAY, at 2 p m.. tor Catholic Cemetery. Rookwood.

The NSW BDM reference

MCDONALD RICHARD ERNEST 26144/1937 ALEXANDER ISABELLA : LIVERPOOL

Thoughts? I admit they are fine threads but the parents name and the employment highly suggest it is the same person. Again its the different name that sticks

Yes, well done. Pretty powerful evidence, but I too would like that extra piece of official info to confirm it.

His father Alexander died at end of December 1926 and the family death notice lists some children deceased,
but Robert shown as being alive:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/...imits=dateFrom=1926-12-01|||dateTo=1927-01-31

The AFL History branch could if they were inclined to do so, follow up on this and somehow scrape together the $30-$40
for Richard Ernest McDonald's December 1937 death certificate and glean as much info off that as possible.
 
Jul 26, 2014
502
557
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Tottenham Hotspur
Finally. I think I have found him and I am confident.

BUT....
1930 - 1937 electoral rolls have Richard Ernest living with a Mary Margaret McDonald (possibly a wife or daughter?)
upload_2018-9-4_13-17-49.png


haven't been able to clearly identify her at this stage but she may help confirm details if anyone can trace her....

I cannot find any birth records on ancestry or NSW BDM for a Richard Ernest McDonald that match the 1937 death.

Rookwood catholic cemetery shows 6 Dec 1937 burial (note: search for Mc Donald - with a space - to find his record)
Narrowing date search on NSW BDM gives a date of death of 4 Dec 1937
 
Mar 21, 2016
73,868
116,795
Down South Corvus Tristis
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Sturt, White Sox
Updated


32 *Harry Leslie "Les" Gardner b:30/9/1923 StK 1947
Anybody in Melbourne for a little drive?

http://www.boroniabowls.org/images/stories/pdf_files/toucher_topics/toucher_topics_0912.pdf

Shirley and Les Gardner celebrate 60 happy years together Shirley and Les Gardner had a special celebration on Thursday 3 December. That day marked the 60th anniversary of their wedding at Williamstown on Saturday 3 December 1949. To mark this occasion our VLBA teams waited after pennant on 1 December to congratulate Shirley on this marvelous landmark in her life with Les.

Boronia Bowls club newsletter talking about the 60th wedding anniversary for Les and Shirley. I am confident it is Leslie Harold and Shirley Edith Aylott from this notice

Registration year 1949 Personal information Family name GARDNER Given names Leslie Harold
Spouse's family name AYLOTT Spouse's given names Shirley Edith

A birthday message for Shirley in 2014 http://www.boroniabowls.org/images/stories/pdf_files/toucher_topics/toucher_topics_1411.pdf

I cant find a Tribute notice ( Herald Sun only) from 2014 on so the assumption is they are still alive.

Thoughts?
 

35Daicos

Premium Platinum
Mar 6, 2011
8,953
11,845
Adelaide
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Collingwood (VFL), Man Utd.
Anybody in Melbourne for a little drive?

http://www.boroniabowls.org/images/stories/pdf_files/toucher_topics/toucher_topics_0912.pdf

Shirley and Les Gardner celebrate 60 happy years together Shirley and Les Gardner had a special celebration on Thursday 3 December. That day marked the 60th anniversary of their wedding at Williamstown on Saturday 3 December 1949. To mark this occasion our VLBA teams waited after pennant on 1 December to congratulate Shirley on this marvelous landmark in her life with Les.

Boronia Bowls club newsletter talking about the 60th wedding anniversary for Les and Shirley. I am confident it is Leslie Harold and Shirley Edith Aylott from this notice

Registration year 1949 Personal information Family name GARDNER Given names Leslie Harold
Spouse's family name AYLOTT Spouse's given names Shirley Edith

A birthday message for Shirley in 2014 http://www.boroniabowls.org/images/stories/pdf_files/toucher_topics/toucher_topics_1411.pdf

I cant find a Tribute notice ( Herald Sun only) from 2014 on so the assumption is they are still alive.

Thoughts?
His name hasn't appeared in the Obituaries section of the AFL Season Guide (2015-2018), and St Kilda thought he was still going at about that time ^ (late 2014), so hopefully he still is!: http://www.saints.com.au/news/2014-12-12/the-oldest-living-saint-bob-dawson

As far as the club is aware, Dawson is one of three former Saints aged 90 or over.

Les Gardner (September 30, 1923) is almost three years his junior, while John Curtin (November 8, 1924) turned 90 last month.

Gardner played the first three matches of the 1947 season, while Curtin was selected for rounds one and two but never played for the Saints again.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Mar 21, 2016
73,868
116,795
Down South Corvus Tristis
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Sturt, White Sox
Updated

25 Richard James Day b:17/2/1920 Nth:1943
Find My Past are having a free weekend to search so I thought I might go through the list.

Found an interesting entry for the above. Probate notice for a death in Qld. 5th August 1997 for a Richard James Day : Pensioner

So what makes this special? The Probate is in Victoria. Granted 3rd June 1998

Richard James Last name Day
Grant year 1998
Death year 1997
Occupation Pensioner
Residence Auchenflower
Resident state Queensland
State Victoria
Country Australia
Nature of grant -
Country of residence Australia
Death date 05 Aug 1997
Grant date 03 Jun 1998
To whom committed -
File number 1144836
Order link
VPRS 28/P28, unit 175

Can anybody chase this up if they can?
 

rbartlett

Club Legend
Jan 5, 2004
1,636
1,918
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Richmond
Just to step back for a moment.
Do you need me to forward any of these entries (say from this page and page 25) to Stephen Rodgers at the AFL?
Or is that being done by the original poster of each entry?

Just want to make sure I haven't 'dropped the ball' here.
 
Mar 21, 2016
73,868
116,795
Down South Corvus Tristis
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Sturt, White Sox
Just to step back for a moment.
Do you need me to forward any of these entries (say from this page and page 25) to Stephen Rodgers at the AFL?
Or is that being done by the original poster of each entry?

Just want to make sure I haven't 'dropped the ball' here.
If you could please. I dont have access so forwarding would be wonderful. Thank you :)
 

rbartlett

Club Legend
Jan 5, 2004
1,636
1,918
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Richmond
so just to confirm, am I right to say that I'm sending everything on to Stephen Rodgers from Post 604 - Post 639.
I don't want to double up, so no one has sent those already ?

EDIT: I've sent off Post 604- Post 639 to Rodgers
 
Last edited:
Jul 26, 2014
502
557
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Tottenham Hotspur
Updated
74 Charlie McCartney b:26/2/1874 SthMelb 1897,Ess 1899
I think this birth date is highly likely to be incorrect...

It corresponds to Vic BDM record 1874 / 6854 (which has two entries, one under family name SMALLEY)
Family name MCCARTNEY
Given names Charles
Sex Unknown
Father's name Unknown
Mother's name Harriet (Smalley)
Place of birth BALLARAT

Harriet was married to James Cameron McCartney and there were two older children from the marriage (Martha and Euphemia). It seems James and Harriet separated at around the time of Charles' birth and it is possible James was not the father (as he is not named on the birth record). James later re-married in Sydney in 1887 (declaring himself a widower and committing bigamy)

Charles, however, moved to SA, marrying in 1894 and died there in 1938. He went by the name McArtney and his grave is here: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/180461778

During the late 1890's this Charles was living in South Australia and fathering five children - it seems highly improbable he was also playing VFL football for South Melbourne and Essendon. I think we need to go back to the beginning with this one...
 
Mar 21, 2016
73,868
116,795
Down South Corvus Tristis
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Sturt, White Sox
I think this birth date is highly likely to be incorrect...

It corresponds to Vic BDM record 1874 / 6854 (which has two entries, one under family name SMALLEY)
Family name MCCARTNEY
Given names Charles
Sex Unknown
Father's name Unknown
Mother's name Harriet (Smalley)
Place of birth BALLARAT

Harriet was married to James Cameron McCartney and there were two older children from the marriage (Martha and Euphemia). It seems James and Harriet separated at around the time of Charles' birth and it is possible James was not the father (as he is not named on the birth record). James later re-married in Sydney in 1887 (declaring himself a widower and committing bigamy)

Charles, however, moved to SA, marrying in 1894 and died there in 1938. He went by the name McArtney and his grave is here: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/180461778

During the late 1890's this Charles was living in South Australia and fathering five children - it seems highly improbable he was also playing VFL football for South Melbourne and Essendon. I think we need to go back to the beginning with this one...
I havent gone into your research but I recall this from page 9 #225

McCartney playing for West Melbourne
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article106845854
Interesting . Because the articles provided earlier say the West Melbourne players had armbands in memory of Mrs McCartney
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/106847368

A Mary Ann McCartney nee Smalley died that year in Melbourne aged 29
Also a Hetta McCartney but she is aged 19
 
Last edited:
Mar 21, 2016
73,868
116,795
Down South Corvus Tristis
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Sturt, White Sox
Charles, however, moved to SA, marrying in 1894 and died there in 1938. He went by the name McArtney and his grave is here: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/180461778

During the late 1890's this Charles was living in South Australia and fathering five children - it seems highly improbable he was also playing VFL football for South Melbourne and Essendon. I think we need to go back to the beginning with this one...
Having looked at the link provided you offer a strong case .

Reading back I noticed an alternative spelling that might help. The original solution of him dying in 1949 may eventually found to be correct. It does mean a change of DOB

Post #212 notes a Charles Macartney (note spelling ) passing in 1949 from this the search reveals this

Event registration number 3894 Registration year 1874 Personal information Family name MACARTNEY Given names Charles Patrick

Father's name Francis Mother's name Ann (Ryan) Place of birth N MELB

.......................

Event registration number 18294 Registration year 1949 Personal information Family name MACARTNEY Given names Charles Patrick

Father's name MACARTNEY Francis Mother's name Ann (Ryan) Place of birth MELBOURNE WEST Place of death COLAC Age76

...........................

Event registration number 8933 Registration year 1898 Personal information Family name MACARTNEY Given names Ann

Father's name Ryan Dennis Mother's name Ann (Fogarty) Place of birth Place of death Melb W Age 56

........................

This , to me, links the West Melbourne player as this person. I have no doubt over that. The info provided by the croucher looks to have been correct. The info above from WhiteHartLane23 dismisses the Smalley connection.

Really the only thing needed is to provided a connection from West Melbourne to Essendon

Leaving us with the Charles Macartney as our footballer.

rbartlett another for Stephen to look over?
 

rbartlett

Club Legend
Jan 5, 2004
1,636
1,918
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Richmond
Really the only thing needed is to provided a connection from West Melbourne to Essendon

Leaving us with the Charles Macartney as our footballer.

rbartlett another for Stephen to look over?

I'll bring it to his attention in the next week or so, just incase we find a permit in the meantime.

If I can make an observation that I think alot of us feel.
It is becoming apparent that a large number of the early players identities are wrong - and as such perhaps we shouldn't take the outstanding date of births, or date of deaths as gospel at all. Even by Rodgers admissions, there were 100s of players he took a guess on, simply to fill the historical gaps.
We may even need to go one by one through specific clubs and years at some point in the long future, to make sure what has already been written in stone is actually correct.
 

35Daicos

Premium Platinum
Mar 6, 2011
8,953
11,845
Adelaide
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Collingwood (VFL), Man Utd.
Really the only thing needed is to provided a connection from West Melbourne to Essendon

Leaving us with the Charles Macartney as our footballer.
I havent gone into your research but I recall this from page 9 #225

McCartney playing for West Melbourne
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article106845854
Interesting . Because the articles provided earlier say the West Melbourne players had armbands in memory of Mrs McCartney
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/106847368

A Mary Ann McCartney nee Smalley died that year in Melbourne aged 29
Also a Hetta McCartney but she is aged 19
I've lost track of this story, but I presume someone has posted his permit from South Melbourne to Essendon in 1899?

Edit: It seems a bit odd that the permit article was in The Argus on 01 June yet he had played 3 games for Essendon by that stage according to the records: https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/C/Charlie_McCartney.html

^ Sorry if this is something that has already been brought up!!
 
Last edited:
Mar 21, 2016
73,868
116,795
Down South Corvus Tristis
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Sturt, White Sox
I've lost track of this story, but I presume someone has posted his permit from South Melbourne to Essendon in 1899?
He didnt need a permit from the Association side? If so then he played for Essendon after June 1st ( or maybe not , this explains issues Essendon might have had http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article241860225 )

M'cartney plays May 24 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article241850452

Thank you for posting the permit. It still doesnt tie in the West Melbourne Macartney. I note M'cartney still playing for WM in May but there is also an R M'cartney (brother? ) listed.
 

rbartlett

Club Legend
Jan 5, 2004
1,636
1,918
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Richmond
William Woods response from Stephen Rodgers. He doesn't believe we have found the right man.
His response below and photo attached.
I have also updated our online spreadsheet https://www.dropbox.com/s/f9uskpqcjckgn2m/Inaccuracies in Australian Football League data.xlsx?dl=0

"This is an incredibly finicky one.
Can you get back to your guy who did it, with this info:

He IS William Henry Woods.
See photo at the end - from players register.
That might disqualify the
born 1890 at Portarlington, dying 1972 one.

Don't know if you mentioned to your guys, from the Remarks column:
Half-brother of Ike.

He's of course more well-known:
Isaac Henry 'Ike' Woods
20/8/1879 > 28/9/1962.

Col knows something about this:
(but he said, don't quote him -
not completely 100 % sure on this)
So, Col played cricket in Geelong with a guy called Peter Menzies.
His wife, was the great great niece of Ike.
She said, she remembers the "little Bill."
The little Bill, is apparently the WW1 serviceman - the guy who's
5 ft. 4.5 and 8 7 -
who you commented on.

(And that's another aspect of this:
Col is sure that the player of 1909 was a "bigger man"; he may have had one of his games as back-pocket ruck.
So again, that seems to eliminate this smaller chap.)

So the story could be:
Ike had a full brother called William.
5 4.5 and 8 7 man?

But he ALSO had a half-brother called William Henry;
and this man is apparently the Geelong 1909 player.

Not sure if it's the father or mother, who could be the common parent (if this is all true).

So the guy we've got at the moment, the born 31/8/1890 at South Melbourne - might still be the right bloke.

(But we still, of course, need his death!)

A lot of the above may be hearsay - who knows? But you (collectively) can check genealogy far better than I can,
so - yeah,
if you can get back to your guys with all of the above please -
 

Attachments

  • 20180918_101032.jpg
    20180918_101032.jpg
    137 KB · Views: 211

rbartlett

Club Legend
Jan 5, 2004
1,636
1,918
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Richmond
Finally. I think I have found him and I am confident.



McDONALD-The Relatives and Friends of the late RICHARD ERNEST McDONALD(Federated Boot Employees' Union) are Invited to attend his
Funeral; lo leave his late residence, Jensen Street. Bankstown West. THIS DAY, at 2 p m.. tor Catholic Cemetery. Rookwood.

The NSW BDM reference

MCDONALD RICHARD ERNEST 26144/1937 ALEXANDER ISABELLA : LIVERPOOL

Thoughts? I admit they are fine threads but the parents name and the employment highly suggest it is the same person. Again its the different name that sticks

Response from Stephen Rodgers.
He agrees, despite a slight concern. See below
https://www.dropbox.com/s/f9uskpqcjckgn2m/Inaccuracies in Australian Football League data.xlsx?dl=0
"
- R.E.McDonald

from the Clearance Book, he's just down twice:

R.McDonald South Adelaide to Collingwood 1/5/01
and
R.E.McDonald Collingwood to Carlton 29/5/01.

So, as we know, he's in the 1926 death notice of the father as Robert.
And all the 6 kids match up!
(Although I noted, the mother is Marie rather than Isabella.)
But if, Ok, you go with the
Alexander/Isabella
then yes,
you'd say it HAS to be him with the 1937 NSW death
(The exact date, incidentally, from NSW Deaths, is 4/12/37).
But why the hell is he Richard??
The only, really weak, explanation I can think of, is that he really WAS universally known as Rhoda -
so that, when he died they "thought" his real name was Richard.
What other explanation is there? -
it just doesn't make sense!
But to sum up -
please just get back to me:
if you guys say Robert/Richard
IS the same man! - we'll go with that."
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Back