Opinion Mitch Brown

[Vdubs]

What about the 4 points?

We basically got that because NM's possession game was thwarted by the rain. Fair enough it is a game exposed to the elements, but NM train for a style of play v Geelong KNOWING the conditions at Etihad are perfect for their style of play. Will not help them at the G, but they play up to 16 games at Etihad a year. I daresay, that had a significant impact on who got te 4 points. We are the masters of contested wet weather footy, but that should never exist at Etihad.

 

[Vdubs]

Lonergan got thrashed by Petrie far worse than Brown did and Taylor wasn't sighted until after half time.

Absolutely how most of us saw it. The change in conditions at Etihad virtually begged for a runner like Stokes to come on and for team balance, Brown was the ideal victim. I don't believe he was removed because CS thought he was inept.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Don't hold your breath. HMac has not been relied upon for 3 years now, anything from him will be bonus.

Not holding my breath, just crossing my fingers.

 

[Vdubs]

Unless they feel they need another specialist small defender (and Thomas gave ample evidence we might), and Guthrie and/or Josh Hunt is fit.

Thomas
Ballantyne Walters
Milne Saad
Betts Garlett
Any of the Pies, Elliott etc
The list will continue
You bet we do.

 

[Vdubs]

Not holding my breath, just crossing my fingers.

That hasn't been tried yet, could be te trick we need.

 

[footscore]

Milne Saad

lol
Saad

 

[Partridge]

I posted in another thread the player we would have lost if we applied the " he's crap after 6 games lets cut him" theory.

Same applies here. Ne needs time and should get it.

Go Catters

Everyone except Selwood? Taylor was pretty good from the start too.

 

[footscore]

Selwood from day 1 was a freak, averaged 19 touches a game in his first season

 

[Pivo]

One of the big issues I have with Brown is HOW to fit him into the side.

I have my queries on him but the biggest issue is how to get games into him so he starts feeling like he belongs out there.

Once he has some confidence then we might be in a better position to judge whether or not he'll make it.

He is in a similar position to Horlin-Smith. We'd like to see them both string 3 or 4 full games together in a row but how do they fit into the side.

 

[Partridge]

largely agree with this Senatorguesty; he lost a couple of key contests but I too liked the way he used his smarts when the ball was on the deck, you don't get many big blokes with under 10 senior games who have the composure to do stuff like that - I actually thought he showed some really good signs and he will get a clearer picture of what he needs to do to improve with every senior game he gets.

Not to mention he looked very agile for a big guy. I guess the tradeoff is if he was bigger he might be better at marking contests - but slower at ground level. But a couple of times he looked to be thinking much further ahead than his opponents were.

 

[Senatorguesty]

I think with brown we should stop thinking of him as a tall key defender and consider him a tall running half back in the style of enright.
I agree with VC in that I think our major issue is just how do we get games into him while also giving games to players who are really in some good form. He can't hold rivers out so I can't see how he can be retained but I'd hate to drop him.

 

[Partridge]

One of the big issues I have with Brown is HOW to fit him into the side.

I have my queries on him but the biggest issue is how to get games into him so he starts feeling like he belongs out there.

Once he has some confidence then we might be in a better position to judge whether or not he'll make it.

He is in a similar position to Horlin-Smith. We'd like to see them both string 3 or 4 full games together in a row but how do they fit into the side.

It mightn't even be 3 or 4 in a row (although I think Horlin-Smith should and will get that chance). It's more can Brown get say 10 games this year? I see 3 reasons why he can or where he can:

1. Injuries either to a key defender or a key forward. Right now he's our third option as a key defender, AND our third option as a key forward. So if there's any niggle to Lonergan, Taylor, Pods or Hawkins he'll be in.
2. Injury to Rivers - like now.
3. A run of games against poor opposition. I know we play Gold Coast and GWS in successive weeks, not sure who else is around that time. That could be a good time for further games.

People need to take a deep breath, pop in a DVD of how Corey, Chapman, Kelly, Bartel, Hawkins, Varcoe, Lonergan et al were after 6 games and get some perspective.

 

[Pivo]

It mightn't even be 3 or 4 in a row (although I think Horlin-Smith should and will get that chance). It's more can Brown get say 10 games this year? I see 3 reasons why he can or where he can:

1. Injuries either to a key defender or a key forward. Right now he's our third option as a key defender, AND our third option as a key forward. So if there's any niggle to Lonergan, Taylor, Pods or Hawkins he'll be in.
2. Injury to Rivers - like now.
3. A run of games against poor opposition. I know we play Gold Coast and GWS in successive weeks, not sure who else is around that time. That could be a good time for further games.

People need to take a deep breath, pop in a DVD of how Corey, Chapman, Kelly, Bartel, Hawkins, Varcoe, Lonergan et al were after 6 games and get some perspective.

I'd agree with that.

We probably want to get over this first month (hence Corey back in and Horlin-Smith out), try and get ourselves entrenched in the 8 and then start rotating players a bit from mid-season.

 

[ousitgarn]

(Warning mega vitriolic rant incoming...)

Very confused by most of the comments in this thread. Thanks footscore for uploading that video, very helpful. But am I watching the same vision as everyone else here? All that video does is confirm what I initially thought. Brown's positioning was shocking, he read the play poorly and his decision making was also bad. He was beaten comprehensively overhead and on the ground - he can't handle the pressure. That footage doesn't show that he had a poor game 'as have other defenders early in their careers' and that he 'shows potential but needs more games' it shows that he is a liability as a defender and should be kept out of the side at all costs.

Why do you think Stokes was subbed on for him so early? Every single senior game he has played he has been poor to the point where I have questioned why he is getting a game (even when he played as a forward - plus there is no room for him there anyway). Thurlow would have done a better job than him as a defender as would have Kersten as a forward. Maybe he is good at VFL level but that doesn't count at this point in his career. I would very much appreciate it if footscore could make a video showing highlights from all the senior games he has played. I remember all of them being inadequate.

Sick of the comparisons with superstars such as Taylor, Lonergan, Christensen, Hawkins etc. He is not of that ilk and he never will be. He has been around too long to be given more time, you can't just keep saying if he gets games he will improve. He has shown absolutely nothing of what is required at AFL level so far, why would he do so in the future? At this point he is just clogging the list. Just because he is wearing hoops doesn't mean he'll come good. Look at the Gillies thread - Mitch is unfortunately in the same boat. I'm at a loss to explain the love for Brown ITT and elsewhere on this board.

/rant

 

[Enth Degree]

am by no means trying to suggest Mitch Brown is a lock for our best 22 but if our supporters wish to highlight him as a liability then it is only fair he is judged for the poor passages of play he is being questioned over by posters



That's every passage of play he was involved in today.

Not quite as bad as some may suggest imo.

Great footage Footscore, nowhere near as bad as first thought. Check out the footage at the 3.20. At the top of the screen and you will see Brown was actually on the ground just as Hansen was kicking the ball after a tangle of legs with Tarrant. He lost body contact & positioning at that point. It appears that all other 1 on 1 contests were halved which is what we want. He still has a long way to go but it was his first go in defence at the elite level and wasn't that bad.

 

[footscore]

yep good read ousitgarn.
At least you explained reasons for your concern with Brown other than simply saying "will never play again, spud of the highest order"

I do share your views also but the only thing I would say is perhaps after 30 or so matches, we may be able to judge him much better because really, 6 senior matches is not going to be enough time to judge any footballer no matter how poor their reputation is.
He may be another Gillies who knows, but if we could maybe wait just a little while longer...he could be a confidence player and never looks back if he gets his tail up.

 

[Partridge]

Great footage Footscore, nowhere near as bad as first thought. Check out the footage at the 3.20. At the top of the screen and you will see Brown was actually on the ground just as Hansen was kicking the ball after a tangle of legs with Tarrant. He lost body contact & positioning at that point. It appears that all other 1 on 1 contests were halved which is what we want. He still has a long way to go but it was his first go in defence at the elite level and wasn't that bad.

Remarkable footage that. Actually it's not that remarkable, it was almost what I expected.

We're all guilty of seeing what we want to see in players, but really anyone who thinks Brown will never ever make it needs to watch that footage. 2 clear blunders out of about 20. For a player with 6 games' experience. I'll take that thanks. Does need to get stronger in one-on-one contests but it certainly wasn't like he was effortlessly beaten in all of them. His use at ground level was pretty encouraging too.

 

[Johanpetro]

Ok, who just called SEN before and ripped into poor Mitch??

 

[Partridge]

Why do you think Stokes was subbed on for him so early? Every single senior game he has played he has been poor to the point where I have questioned why he is getting a game (even when he played as a forward - plus there is no room for him there anyway). Thurlow would have done a better job than him as a defender as would have Kersten as a forward. Maybe he is good at VFL level but that doesn't count at this point in his career. I would very much appreciate it if footscore could make a video showing highlights from all the senior games he has played. I remember all of them being inadequate.

How do you know that? Neither have played a senior game yet.

Footscore has diligently made just that video, and he didn't look inadequate to me. The two marking contests where he conceded goals he absolutely needs to get better at. Especially the second one. But there were plenty of one-on-ones in there and he wasn't embarrassed in many of them.

Sick of the comparisons with superstars such as Taylor, Lonergan, Christensen, Hawkins etc. He is not of that ilk and he never will be. He has been around too long to be given more time, you can't just keep saying if he gets games he will improve. He has shown absolutely nothing of what is required at AFL level so far, why would he do so in the future? At this point he is just clogging the list. Just because he is wearing hoops doesn't mean he'll come good. Look at the Gillies thread - Mitch is unfortunately in the same boat. I'm at a loss to explain the love for Brown ITT and elsewhere on this board.

You might want to check this board after Round 23, 2011 against Sydney, and pay particular attention to the opinions on Hawkins. And anyone who saw Lonergan's efforts against Fevola and Brown in 2009 and claim they had full confidence in him is a liar.

Difference was of course, both Hawkins AND Lonergan had played much more than 6 games at that point.

 

[Partridge]

yep good read ousitgarn.
At least you explained reasons for your concern with Brown other than simply saying "will never play again, spud of the highest order"

I do share your views also but the only thing I would say is perhaps after 30 or so matches, we may be able to judge him much better because really, 6 senior matches is not going to be enough time to judge any footballer no matter how poor their reputation is.
He may be another Gillies who knows, but if we could maybe wait just a little while longer...he could be a confidence player and never looks back if he gets his tail up.

We had another one of those not long ago as a key forward. Heaps of talent, but seemed unsure of himself, and deferential to more experienced players. Plenty of us were unsure he'd make it, plenty were convinced he wouldn't.

He won our Best and Fairest last year.

 

[footscore]

We had another one of those not long ago as a key forward. Heaps of talent, but seemed unsure of himself, and deferential to more experienced players. Plenty of us were unsure he'd make it, plenty were convinced he wouldn't.

He won our Best and Fairest last year.

yep and man, be great if it were a similar case but the difference between Tomahawk and Brown is stark imo, Tom was pushing 100 kilo's at 17 yrs of age and literally bullying his peers whereas Mitch is fairly undersized and lacks that mongrel we see in Tomahawk if someone gets in his face.

I do agree though, perhaps just needs a little more time?

 

[Partridge]

yep and man, be great if it were a similar case but the difference between Tomahawk and Brown is stark imo, Tom was pushing 100 kilo's at 17 yrs of age and literally bullying his peers whereas Mitch is fairly undersized and lacks that mongrel we see in Tomahawk if someone gets in his face.

I do agree though, perhaps just needs a little more time?

I've got no doubt he needs more time.

Regarding Hawkins, I distinctly recall a lack of mongrel being a MASSIVE query on him around these parts for a long, long time. He never had to deal with 2 busted shoulders and a broken leg either. Be unfair to single Brown out for that.

 

[burto]

I must have no idea about footy, because I thought Brown was one of our better defenders yesterday. Lonergan got killed by Petrie and Taylor was largely ineffective. Brown made some nice spoils and got involved in the player a little bit. Sure he made some errors, but was nobody else watching the first half? We had players stuff up far more than Brown did. People are very quick to criticise Brown - seems they have already made their mind up on him.

 

[SleazySimon]

yep and man, be great if it were a similar case but the difference between Tomahawk and Brown is stark imo, Tom was pushing 100 kilo's at 17 yrs of age and literally bullying his peers whereas Mitch is fairly undersized and lacks that mongrel we see in Tomahawk if someone gets in his face.

I do agree though, perhaps just needs a little more time?

size does not mean a better player in this sport. 6 words - Kevin Bartlett, Michael Tuck, Dustin Fletcher.

 

[cynical]

pros

-Brown was good in the nab cup
-Brown can go forward and kick goals
-Brown has elite disposal and is a smart player
-Brown is only 22

cons

-Brown is soft and doesn't put his body on the line
-Brown doesn't position himself that well in the backline
-Brown has been on the list since being drafted in 2008
-Brown gets outmarked against bigger opponents

excuses

-Brown has had a lot of bad injuries early in his career and is still light compared to the guys he is playing on thus making him timid. Should improve over time.
-Brown has played 6 afl games, mostly as a forward
-Brown became a defender in 2012 and has much to learn
-Brown has really only had one good full preseason and probably needs 2 more
- shouldn't judge a guy playing his first game as a defender in the first half where there was little defensive pressure and he was on a fairly big third tall
-it's hard to judge a guy on 1 game

other

Lonners 29 this year
Mackie 29 this year
Rivers 29 this year
Taylor 27 this year

Can't expect the guy to come in and be as good as seasoned players.