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Mitch Clark - The SQL

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Lay bare your utilitarian calculus of "fairness" so we can actually critique it, rather than simply hiding behind that one word: "fair". How does fairness work in this context, how does it work in any context? Elaborate, don't just toss about a purposefully vague term, impressing upon us that it is authoritative and objective in its perceived simplicity. Your idea of fairness only appears objective precisely because it is ill-defined. I think that you will find, from reading the many threads on this matter, that any posturing about "fairness" is not objective, is not productive and only serves to distract from reality.
 
93567 said:
Lay bare your utilitarian calculus of "fairness" so we can actually critique it, rather than simply hiding behind that one word: "fair". How does fairness work in this context, how does it work in any context? Elaborate, don't just toss about a purposefully vague term, impressing upon us that it is authoritative and objective in its perceived simplicity. Your idea of fairness only appears objective precisely because it is ill-defined. I think that you will find, from reading the many threads on this matter, that any posturing about "fairness" is not objective, is not productive and only serves to distract from reality.
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images
:D:D:D
 
What are the best options for Brisbanes future?

1- 1st round draft pick 16

or

2- Sending a big **** you to Freo, getting nothing for Clark, letting him go to the PSD and probly Melbourne.

Hopefully common sense provails.
 
TheBrownDog said:
No I'm not. As mentioned above, this is where the subjectivity of value comes into it.

We're never going to agree on that, so there is no point in us going over old ground there.
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Let me put it another way then. You are asking us to pay more than we think we have to considering the circumstances, because 12 and 8 would have gotten you Tippet. Maybe 8, 16 and a player or another pick would get you Tippett, but you probably don't want to pay that. Essentially each club has a right to decide what they are willing to pay.
 

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Angelus said:
No!!! Really? IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!
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Save the sarcasm, Angelus. I was responding to a point made by someone else.

apuchar said:
Your asking us to pay overs for Clark so you can pay overs for Tippett.
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We're asking for something approaching a fair trade for Clark. Enough so that it doesn't look like we're prepared to trade players for peanuts so they can go home. What we then do with that is our business.

93567 said:
Lay bare your utilitarian calculus of "fairness" so we can actually critique it, rather than simply hiding behind that one word: "fair". How does fairness work in this context, how does it work in any context? Elaborate, don't just toss about a purposefully vague term, impressing upon us that it is authoritative and objective in its perceived simplicity. Your idea of fairness only appears objective precisely because it is ill-defined. I think that you will find, from reading the many threads on this matter, that any posturing about "fairness" is not objective, is not productive and only serves to distract from reality.
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There's no magic number, apucar. But when we're talking about a player who has three teams at least (Melbourne, Brisbane, Fremantle) keen to pay him roughly half a million dollars a season to play for them, it seems logical to conclude that that player is worth more than pick 16 in a compromised draft.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that 'fairness' is an objective concept. But we objectively have a list of players from other states who might feel like asking for a trade themselves if the Lions start giving away homesick recruits for less than what they are subjectively worth.

There is absolutely no incentive for us to make it easy for Clark to leave, unless we are getting decent value from the trade.
 
TomFC said:
Save the sarcasm, Angelus. I was responding to a point made by someone else.



We're asking for something approaching a fair trade for Clark. Enough so that it doesn't look like we're prepared to trade players for peanuts so they can go home. What we then do with that is our business.



As one of your own Brisbane posters said what is fair is very subjective. The simple fact is with the way the system is now, losing a player from your club is likely to be very costly, especially since the the time the AFL didn't stop Carey from nominating his club of choice. We have lost players too. Even clubs like West Coast who have a great history of retaining players are starting to loose some of their players. They recruited Ebert for a top 12 pick and got 28 back + Hill. I'm pretty sure that is why free agency has come in so players can be more mobile.
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TomFC said:
Save the sarcasm, Angelus. I was responding to a point made by someone else.



We're asking for something approaching a fair trade for Clark. Enough so that it doesn't look like we're prepared to trade players for peanuts so they can go home. What we then do with that is our business.



There's no magic number, apucar. But when we're talking about a player who has three teams at least (Melbourne, Brisbane, Fremantle) keen to pay him roughly half a million dollars a season to play for them, it seems logical to conclude that that player is worth more than pick 16 in a compromised draft.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that 'fairness' is an objective concept. But we objectively have a list of players from other states who might feel like asking for a trade themselves if the Lions start giving away homesick recruits for less than what they are subjectively worth.

There is absolutely no incentive for us to make it easy for Clark to leave, unless we are getting decent value from the trade.
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Davies has just gone to GWS for more money than Clark. No-one seriously thinks that you would get pick 12 + for him. The whole system is distorted,
 
I'm just about to step into the tardis and head back to the 2006 draft to sort a few things out...

Pick 31: Fremantle - Clayton Collard
Pick 32: Adelaide - Kurt Tippett

A little tweaking, a word in Phil Smart's ear at an opportune moment - and voila!

Hey Brissie, we've got Big Kurt and you want him; you've got Mitch and he wants us - how about a swap: Clark for Tippett!! :thumbsu: :thumbsu:


Aaaahhhhhh...... isn't hindsight both beautiful and tragic! :(
 
ImperialPurple said:
I'm just about to step into the tardis and head back to the 2006 draft to sort a few things out...

Pick 31: Fremantle - Clayton Collard
Pick 32: Adelaide - Kurt Tippett

A little tweaking, a word in Phil Smart's ear at an opportune moment - and voila!

Hey Brissie, we've got Big Kurt and you want him; you've got Mitch and he wants us - how about a swap: Clark for Tippett!! :thumbsu: :thumbsu:


Aaaahhhhhh...... isn't hindsight both beautiful and tragic! :(
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With the Fyfe it is :thumbsu:
 
ImperialPurple said:
I'm just about to step into the tardis and head back to the 2006 draft to sort a few things out...

Pick 31: Fremantle - Clayton Collard
Pick 32: Adelaide - Kurt Tippett

A little tweaking, a word in Phil Smart's ear at an opportune moment - and voila!

Hey Brissie, we've got Big Kurt and you want him; you've got Mitch and he wants us - how about a swap: Clark for Tippett!! :thumbsu: :thumbsu:


Aaaahhhhhh...... isn't hindsight both beautiful and tragic! :(
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God, how awful. And I thought we could leave it behind us. That's a terrible stuff up:eek:
 
ImperialPurple said:
I'm just about to step into the tardis and head back to the 2006 draft to sort a few things out...

Pick 31: Fremantle - Clayton Collard
Pick 32: Adelaide - Kurt Tippett

A little tweaking, a word in Phil Smart's ear at an opportune moment - and voila!

Hey Brissie, we've got Big Kurt and you want him; you've got Mitch and he wants us - how about a swap: Clark for Tippett!! :thumbsu: :thumbsu:


Aaaahhhhhh...... isn't hindsight both beautiful and tragic! :(
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After that fabulous draft, there was media speculation that we were draft tampering, managing to get such quality with later round picks despite trading our 1st rounder.
 
TWR have come out and said that Bris have rejected an offer of Picks 16 AND 20 from Freo. :eek:

They are also rabbiting on that Melbourne are 'in the box seat' and Bris are holding out for them to come through, which I can't understand as he's clearly said he's not interested in Melb.

Take it for what it's worth (not much).
 
I remember there were some pretty big wraps on Collard back before the draft, whatever happened to him? Attitude problems is my guess?

PapaJ said:
TWR have come out and said that Bris have rejected an offer of Picks 16 AND 20 from Freo.

They are also rabbiting on that Melbourne are 'in the box seat' and Bris are holding out for them to come through, which I can't understand as he's clearly said he's not interested in Melb.

Take it for what it's worth (not much).
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Sure you're not listening to a replay from yesterday?
 

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Not sure what Brisbane think they're doing here, Clark has to sign off on any trade he's a part of.

Surely Brisbane could find themselves in trouble with the AFLPA for being so greedy. I remember the AFL bringing in a mediator for our deals with Carlton over Warnock, we must be getting close to this stage now.
 
TomFC said:
We're asking for something approaching a fair trade for Clark. Enough so that it doesn't look like we're prepared to trade players for peanuts so they can go home. What we then do with that is our business.
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A late 1st rounder is not approaching a fair trade?

See the issue is - you are not seeking something approaching a fair trade, you want what you consider market value and nothing less.

This is fine, but I really think the vitriol because we don't want to pay it is OTT. No rule says we have to give you what he is worth.

I repeat the FFC has not threatened anything, I think we have just put our offer on the table. No evidence we have been in Clark's ear. The only thing I think is reasonable is the website crap - I didn't like it.

If he goes anywhere else, well that is an issue for Brisb and Clark.

To me a lot of this crap being directed at us, is really Clark/Young.

I would not give 16 & 20, and I am probably one of the more pro-Clark supporters on here.
 
PapaJ said:
TWR have come out and said that Bris have rejected an offer of Picks 16 AND 20 from Freo. :eek:

They are also rabbiting on that Melbourne are 'in the box seat' and Bris are holding out for them to come through, which I can't understand as he's clearly said he's not interested in Melb.

Take it for what it's worth (not much).
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Is that a repeat from Yesterday?:confused:
 
Collard and Mourish both had a ton of talent. Collard in particular was a huge waste, I remember in his first year he had a couple of great games playing off half forward which culminated in his debut. He stunk it up that game, was dropped and then delisted at the end of the year. He must have had some kind of attitude problem to not even get a second year.
 

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PapaJ said:
TWR have come out and said that Bris have rejected an offer of Picks 16 AND 20 from Freo. :eek:

They are also rabbiting on that Melbourne are 'in the box seat' and Bris are holding out for them to come through, which I can't understand as he's clearly said he's not interested in Melb.

Take it for what it's worth (not much).
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HAHAHAHA that's from Yesterday mate.

TWR only do live from 7am-10am on the weekend. The rest is repeats from yesterdays trade news/gossip/listener questions

Don't worry about it:thumbsu::D
 
PapaJ said:
Yea, I'm an idiot (also wasn't listenting yesterday so didn't pick it up that way either).
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It took me a while to realise as well. It wasn't until it said it is 11 o'clock now and nothing has been done and I looked at the clock and it was 12 o'clock here. What the ??
 
ImperialPurple said:
I'm just about to step into the tardis and head back to the 2006 draft to sort a few things out...

Pick 31: Fremantle - Clayton Collard
Pick 32: Adelaide - Kurt Tippett

A little tweaking, a word in Phil Smart's ear at an opportune moment - and voila!

Hey Brissie, we've got Big Kurt and you want him; you've got Mitch and he wants us - how about a swap: Clark for Tippett!! :thumbsu: :thumbsu:


Aaaahhhhhh...... isn't hindsight both beautiful and tragic! :(
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Yeah, or even simpler... we could have drafted Tippett at 22 instead of bloody Albert Proud. :thumbsdown:
 
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