Mitch Starc

[gbatman]

Starc sounds like a person who doesn't take criticism well and can be prone to not putting in. Shane Warne has come out and criticised Starc on numerous occasions and he's been 100% spot on every time. The results, the speed gun and the accuracy have proven that yet Starc and his partner always respond with denial and get all defensive rather than cop it on the chin.

Truth is Starc's speed and accuracy has been down and he hasn't been hitting the seam like he can. Definitely does not deserve to have the new ball, not with Cummings going as well as he has been. Even Richardson coming in, swinging the ball, hitting the seam and bowling accurately deserves more opportunity.

I think Starc bowls within himself and doesn't do enough bowling. All this time off, hardly playing state cricket, not playing the ODIs. Is he fit enough specifically for what he does?

I'd like to have him in the side because at his best he is very good and he's a good bat but he's provided very little.

I think a good wake up call is coming.

 

[Pykie]

Starc sounds like a person who doesn't take criticism well and can be prone to not putting in. Shane Warne has come out and criticised Starc on numerous occasions and he's been 100% spot on every time. The results, the speed gun and the accuracy have proven that yet Starc and his partner always respond with denial and get all defensive rather than cop it on the chin.

Truth is Starc's speed and accuracy has been down and he hasn't been hitting the seam like he can. Definitely does not deserve to have the new ball, not with Cummings going as well as he has been. Even Richardson coming in, swinging the ball, hitting the seam and bowling accurately deserves more opportunity.

I think Starc bowls within himself and doesn't do enough bowling. All this time off, hardly playing state cricket, not playing the ODIs. Is he fit enough specifically for what he does?

I'd like to have him in the side because at his best he is very good and he's a good bat but he's provided very little.

I think a good wake up call is coming.

I don't even understand how this is even an argument, it shouldn't even be up for debate r.e Starc vs Cummins.

Starc has had 2 home series in his entire career where has averaged <25 with the ball.

The other has better figures than McGrath or Lilee in his first 19 matches almost bowling exlucisvely as a second change bowler to this point ffs. He has a strike rate in the mid 40's, despite 50% of his test matches being played in the subcontinent and 80% of his tests to this point being played against the top 2 test nations in the world in India and South Africa.

I really think people misunderstand how great Cummins has been, if he played for NZ as an example and their schedule over the last 2 years, there's a chance he would have 110+ wkts @ under 17 or 18 in those 19 matches.


We genuinely might have an all time great Australian bowler on our hands, yet we are still debating weather to take the new ball off a guy who averages nearly 30 in test cricket and over 30 with the ball at home in Australia?


It's absolutely bizarre.

 

[Blue1980]

I don't even understand how this is even an argument, it shouldn't even be up for debate r.e Starc vs Cummins.

Starc has had 2 home series in his entire career where has averaged
The other has better figures than McGrath or Lilee in his first 19 matches almost bowling exlucisvely as a second change bowler to this point ffs. He has a strike rate in the mid 40's, despite 50% of his test matches being played in the subcontinent and 80% of his tests to this point being played against the top 2 test nations in the world in India and South Africa.

I really think people misunderstand how great Cummins has been, if he played for NZ as an example and their schedule over the last 2 years, there's a chance he would have 110+ wkts @ under 17 or 18 in those 19 matches.


We genuinely might have an all time great Australian bowler on our hands, yet we are still debating weather to take the new ball off a guy who averages nearly 30 in test cricket and over 30 with the ball at home in Australia?


It's absolutely bizarre.

It’s all about protecting Starc. He’s worse with the old ball than the new, so we are taking away a very real potential advantage of having our best bowler opening in order to placate an out of form and down on confidence bowler.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

I don't even understand how this is even an argument, it shouldn't even be up for debate r.e Starc vs Cummins.

Starc has had 2 home series in his entire career where has averaged <25 with the ball.

The other has better figures than McGrath or Lilee in his first 19 matches almost bowling exlucisvely as a second change bowler to this point ffs. He has a strike rate in the mid 40's, despite 50% of his test matches being played in the subcontinent and 80% of his tests to this point being played against the top 2 test nations in the world in India and South Africa.

I really think people misunderstand how great Cummins has been, if he played for NZ as an example and their schedule over the last 2 years, there's a chance he would have 110+ wkts @ under 17 or 18 in those 19 matches.


We genuinely might have an all time great Australian bowler on our hands, yet we are still debating weather to take the new ball off a guy who averages nearly 30 in test cricket and over 30 with the ball at home in Australia?


It's absolutely bizarre.

Ha, ha, I've been saying for a year to take the new ball off Starc and let Cummins have it. Hate watcheng Starc throw it on to the pads three or four balls an over.

 

[Pykie]

It’s all about protecting Starc. He’s worse with the old ball than the new, so we are taking away a very real potential advantage of having our best bowler opening in order to placate an out of form and down on confidence bowler.

But why are we protecting a player who's statistical strength is only really his SR? (Who Cummins has a far superior SR to anyway).

The only player with a worse economy rate in test history of any player with more than 150 test wickets is Brett Lee.

Let that sink in for a minute. That should put into perspective how many runs he leaks.

He doesn't rank in the top 100 strike rates in History and there's 6 current players that do, so the line "he's a wicket taker" is horse shit as well.

The argument should be how the hell has he still lasted this long? And why the **** would we go back to the same guy who has already toured England twice in his career for an average of 32 at almost 4 RPO?

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Ha, ha, I've been saying for a year to take the new ball off Starc and let Cummins have it. Hate watcheng Starc throw it on to the pads three or four balls an over.

3-4 balls an over is generous. He's lucky to get 1 on the stumps!

 

[theyellowsash]

It’s all about protecting Starc. He’s worse with the old ball than the new, so we are taking away a very real potential advantage of having our best bowler opening in order to placate an out of form and down on confidence bowler.

Well he's shit with the new ball too he should be 5th or 6th in line

 

[Blue1980]

But why are we protecting a player who's statistical strength is only really his SR? (Who Cummins has a far superior SR to anyway).

The only player with a worse economy rate in test history of any player with more than 150 test wickets is Brett Lee.

Let that sink in for a minute. That should put into perspective how many runs he leaks.

He doesn't rank in the top 100 strike rates in History and there's 6 current players that do, so the line "he's a wicket taker" is horse shit as well.

The argument should be how the hell has he still lasted this long? And why the **** would we go back to the same guy who has already toured England twice in his career for an average of 32 at almost 4 RPO?

I agree, protecting Starc is just weakening us at this point.

Needs a kick up the ass, and we don’t have to have a left arm bowler. South Africa seemed to do fine without one against us last year.

How well Richardson bowled put Starc under the blow torch even more.

I was never a huge Brett Lee fan for the exact same reason, leaks too many runs. Simply can’t afford that for an ashes series.

 

[gbatman]

I don't even understand how this is even an argument, it shouldn't even be up for debate r.e Starc vs Cummins.

Starc has had 2 home series in his entire career where has averaged <25 with the ball.

The other has better figures than McGrath or Lilee in his first 19 matches almost bowling exlucisvely as a second change bowler to this point ffs. He has a strike rate in the mid 40's, despite 50% of his test matches being played in the subcontinent and 80% of his tests to this point being played against the top 2 test nations in the world in India and South Africa.

I really think people misunderstand how great Cummins has been, if he played for NZ as an example and their schedule over the last 2 years, there's a chance he would have 110+ wkts @ under 17 or 18 in those 19 matches.


We genuinely might have an all time great Australian bowler on our hands, yet we are still debating weather to take the new ball off a guy who averages nearly 30 in test cricket and over 30 with the ball at home in Australia?


It's absolutely bizarre.

Totally agree. I wonder whether it's something to do with Cummings being good bowling first change so no point changing it but also because they know that if Starc was to bowl first change he would be useless. Perhaps they think by keeping that order they are better as a whole. I don't know, I would be happy to Cummings open the bowling. I would be happy to see Cummings and Richardson with the new ball. I think Hazlewood is in a similar position to Starc at the moment too, sure he's injured and his track record is decent but he's been poor for a long time and his series against India was poor as well.

I don't things are set in stone, I just feel that the Starc, Cummings, Hazlewood combination that has been set in stone for so long could be on the verge of a shake up especially in England where you have to be accurate and present a good seam.

 

[frenchcutforsix]

If James pattinson isn't injured every single season we aren't even having this conversation right now. Gun bowler

 

[peternorth]

Did you know Starc is married to alyssa healy?

 

[Westend]

It amazing reading the posts on here bagging starc

Yes he is down in form and confidence ....but he has taken over 200 test wickets...that deserves some respect

 

[Westend]

Totally agree. I wonder whether it's something to do with Cummings being good bowling first change so no point changing it but also because they know that if Starc was to bowl first change he would be useless. Perhaps they think by keeping that order they are better as a whole. I don't know, I would be happy to Cummings open the bowling. I would be happy to see Cummings and Richardson with the new ball. I think Hazlewood is in a similar position to Starc at the moment too, sure he's injured and his track record is decent but he's been poor for a long time and his series against India was poor as well.

I don't things are set in stone, I just feel that the Starc, Cummings, Hazlewood combination that has been set in stone for so long could be on the verge of a shake up especially in England where you have to be accurate and present a good seam.

Seriously ??

160 wkts at 27 and you reckon he is going bad

Far out guys you will not be satisfied unless the bowlers are taking 5 fors every bowling innings !!!

 

[PhatBoy]

I don't even understand how this is even an argument, it shouldn't even be up for debate r.e Starc vs Cummins.

Starc has had 2 home series in his entire career where has averaged <25 with the ball.

The other has better figures than McGrath or Lilee in his first 19 matches almost bowling exlucisvely as a second change bowler to this point ffs. He has a strike rate in the mid 40's, despite 50% of his test matches being played in the subcontinent and 80% of his tests to this point being played against the top 2 test nations in the world in India and South Africa.

I really think people misunderstand how great Cummins has been, if he played for NZ as an example and their schedule over the last 2 years, there's a chance he would have 110+ wkts @ under 17 or 18 in those 19 matches.


We genuinely might have an all time great Australian bowler on our hands, yet we are still debating weather to take the new ball off a guy who averages nearly 30 in test cricket and over 30 with the ball at home in Australia?


It's absolutely bizarre.

You just answered your own question.

South Africa have Rabada in their side who has broken wicket taking records 100 years old.

Why exactly do you think they give the new ball to Vernon Philander instead?

 

[frenchcutforsix]

It amazing reading the posts on here bagging starc

Yes he is down in form and confidence ....but he has taken over 200 test wickets...that deserves some respect

Yea it's all a bit silly. Like anyone here has ever taken 200 test wickets

 

[Pykie]

You just answered your own question.

South Africa have Rabada in their side who has broken wicket taking records 100 years old.

Why exactly do you think they give the new ball to Vernon Philander instead?

Accept they don't, they actually haven't played a whole heap together.

Rabada has opened the bowling in 17/35 of his tests matches.

Cummins has opened in 5/19, which were all in his first 5 test matches and all in the subcontinent.


And Starc certainly doesn't have Philander's home record.

 

[frenchcutforsix]

Vernon philander is a strange case. 33 years old and only played the 56 tests. 207 wickets but only 107 of those in the last 5 and a bit years. Means he has some massive injury issues..... carrying a bit of weight too is it fair to say? Never looked the fittest next to steyn morkel etc

 

[gbatman]

Seriously ??

160 wkts at 27 and you reckon he is going bad

Far out guys you will not be satisfied unless the bowlers are taking 5 fors every bowling innings !!!

Australia V India 4 matches, 13 wickets, average over 30. Didn't bowl accurately, didn't look threatening. Don't think his tour of South Africa was great either for memory. Currently not fit to play. Watched a lot of those test matches and he was as bad as Starc.

Prior to that, the 4 test tour of South Africa Hazlewood averaged over 39.

He's not going good.

Starc is copping a lot and rightfully so but Hazlewood has been every bit as bad.

It's got the the point where their records aren't worth s***. I don't care what they have done, it's what they have been doing and it's been poor. Richardson who didn't put a foot wrong and bowled beautifully and Cummings who has been really good should be the first quicks picked and the last spot to be fought over, that's if you are to go on form.

I think perhaps these bowlers are not fit enough and not playing enough domestic cricket and one day cricket. Either way that's really poor form and if you watch them bowl you will see how bad that is.

 

[Westend]

Australia V India 4 matches, 13 wickets, average over 30. Didn't bowl accurately, didn't look threatening. Don't think his tour of South Africa was great either for memory. Currently not fit to play. Watched a lot of those test matches and he was as bad as Starc.

Prior to that, the 4 test tour of South Africa Hazlewood averaged over 39.

He's not going good.

Starc is copping a lot and rightfully so but Hazlewood has been every bit as bad.

It's got the the point where their records aren't worth s***. I don't care what they have done, it's what they have been doing and it's been poor. Richardson who didn't put a foot wrong and bowled beautifully and Cummings who has been really good should be the first quicks picked and the last spot to be fought over, that's if you are to go on form.

I think perhaps these bowlers are not fit enough and not playing enough domestic cricket and one day cricket. Either way that's really poor form and if you watch them bowl you will see how bad that is.

They where bowling on the two biggest roads seen in modern memory...and we lost the toss

and we only lost 2/1 FFS

Get behind your team...stop bagging out everyone for not taking 5 fors every time they bowl

Test cricket is bloody hard !!!

 

[LukeParkerno1]

They where bowling on the two biggest roads seen in modern memory...and we lost the toss

and we only lost 2/1 FFS

Get behind your team...stop bagging out everyone for not taking 5 fors every time they bowl

Test cricket is bloody hard !!!

The same roads that Cummins took wickets on? The same roads that Bumrah, Shami and Sharma looked good on...I'm over these bowlers getting a free pass. We had a series where we bowled 5-7% of balls hitting the stumps...no wonder it looked flat! Bowl at the stumps!

 

[Westend]

The same roads that Cummins took wickets on? The same roads that Bumrah, Shami and Sharma looked good on...I'm over these bowlers getting a free pass. We had a series where we bowled 5-7% of balls hitting the stumps...no wonder it looked flat! Bowl at the stumps!

Cummins took 14 wickets for the series !!! 1 more than Starc and Hazelwood !!! who took 13 each

But yeah go on just end there careers because they are not taking 5 fors every bloody time they bowl

 

[Westend]

Far out guys the bowling is not the issue

Its our weak batting which is continually failing and putting pressure on our bowling unit !!..our bowlers have done very well bowling on very good batting decks...we have been losing the toss constantly always bowling first

I agree starc is not in form but to bag out hazelwood is just silly

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Cummins took 14 wickets for the series !!! 1 more than Starc and Hazelwood !!! who took 13 each

But yeah go on just end there careers because they are not taking 5 fors every bloody time they bowl

I’m not asking for them to get 5 fors all I’m asking is to bowl more balls in the right areas. Is it any wonder Cummins looked the most dangerous? Bowled more at the stumps or straight than the others. Starc bowls 95% of rubbish and wastes the new ball time and time again. Hazelwood was very inaccurate for a so called line and length bowler.

 

[gbatman]

They where bowling on the two biggest roads seen in modern memory...and we lost the toss

and we only lost 2/1 FFS

Get behind your team...stop bagging out everyone for not taking 5 fors every time they bowl

Test cricket is bloody hard !!!

Terrible terrible excuses. There were bowlers getting results throughout those test matches, Cummings was and he was bowling first change. I don't know about you but I watched those matches and I was quite annoyed with the bowling of Hazelwood but particularly Starc. Starc hardly bowled a ball on the stumps with the new ball in hand, he happened to bowl one and it was a jaffa and he relied on that for a lot of his wickets.

Hazlewood has been erratic since the previous summer test series in Australia. Comparisons to McGrath were fair but the last two series no way. He's lost his accurate line and length bowling.

I'm not bagging the team, I'm not bagging the players for making 5 fas, it's a shame i used stats and facts to back up my argument and you just made stuff up to back yours. Test cricket is hard and you have to be good to play it and you have to get results or out you go. I'm bagging them for not doing their job, not taking wickets, getting hit for too many runs and not bowling consistently in the right areas. 8 tests, 9 for Starc with some really poor figures. I don't know what more I can say.

Starc and Hazlewood are out of form, there is no denying that, the numbers are there and if you watched the tests their bowling was bloody terrible.

Happy to have guys taking lots of wickets or at least bowling tight and accurate and in partnership and picking up a few here and there but none of that has happened with these two. They need to get their form back or someone misses out because Cummings has been excellent and if Richardson bowls like that again then in my opinion he's bowling better and should be in. I think Richardson is an excellent choice to play in England with the Duke's ball.

The issue is not bagging these bowlers. Credit and criticism where it's due. It's admitting they are in bad form and for the players and the team staff to figure out why and get it right.

Hopefully David Saker comes up with something and quick because we've got some really big series coming up soon.

 

[Wilso24]

He isn't swinging a gate with his current seam position.

Once he sorts that out he'll come back